Launched at the South marina yesterday and noticed a dead eye at the shore edge as I was walking up the dock to get on the boat. Later, as I was coming back in, walking down the same boat dock to shore, I noticed several more dead eyes at the shore. Can't say I have ever seen that many dead walleye along the shore of Willard. Made we wonder if these were fish that the DWR collected from their nets but if so, why did they just dump them back in the water there by the ramp? I know when we do tournaments, they require us to release any fish we decide not to keep at least 1/4 mile or more from the boat launch area, made me wonder why the DWR doesn't do the same thing.[:/] I understand that a certain number of fish will always die after spawning because of the stress but since the DWR started netting walleye to collect the eggs and such, I have never seen this many dead, along the shore of Willard. I remember reading here that a few weeks ago, when the DWR first started collecting them this year that it was too early and they were not ready to spawn, so after holding them for a few days they returned them to the water, could these be those fish[:/], and if so, why are they just be showing up dead[:/]? I saw these 4 or 5 dead fish by the West boat dock.
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I'm sure the same rules DONT apply to the dwr I'm surprised they weren't there writing tickets accusing someone else of leaving them!
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Same rules don't apply to the DNR. While it seems a shame and I am sure that I would be irate at seeing dead walleye at the ramp as a result of the spawning operation, all is likely well with the program.
More disturbing is seeing these spawning walleye jerked in from the inlet after being snagged while congregating to spawn. FWIW
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Sigh.......Ok, I'm thinking the thought of anglers fishing the inlet during the spawn hurts worse than the actual facts.
A few years in a row now I have gone down to the the inlet to see if the fishing was any good and to see for myself if the situation is bad and I can honestly say that I have only once seen someone intentionally snagging fish and he scooted pretty quick when we confronted him.......and no he was not an ethnic minority, but rather a white trash bum. It was usually too crowded to fish effectively and most people were not catching fish.
I have caught exactly two walleyes from the inlet during my attempts and have not seen the loads of fish taken during that time either. I have been much more successful fishing the dikes than the inlet. To be sure, I'm confident that some people DO break the law there, but probably no more than in other areas of the lake. The walleyes that spawn in the inlet see very little success in their spawn due to the silt and other conditions and are simply running up the inlet because it is instinct to run upstream. Those that are harvested are not going to make a difference and I'm sure more walleyes are lost to those that catch and keep more than their limits during the easy fishing of summer for them. The walleyes that successfully spawn in Willard bay do so on the rocks along the dikes. Besides, I think it's good for other anglers, who are not as fortunate as some of us that have boats, to have a chance at catching walleyes too.
Seeing a few floaters due to the DWR doing their job and collecting fish to spawn is of no consequence and I wouldn't be concerned over it. Just my opinion though.
Mike
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Who was it that was casting stones Bob, I simply ask the question, no one placed any blame but the facts are the facts, I have never seen dead eyes along the shore before but maybe you missed the post where it was stated that the DWR dumped a load of them in the South marina because they were not ready to spawn. Take another look were I stated that I understand the fish will died after a spawn because of the stress. My only point in this thread was to wonder why the DWR are allowed to dump fish into the marina but tournament fisherfolks can't!! Yes, yes, I know the government is above the rules, but that's where I say, THAT IS WRONG. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander, am I wrong in that statement? I know it's not what happens but if they are asking others to follow their rules, then they should too. Enough said!!
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Why wouldn't the DNR do something as unethical as that? I have seen them with my own eyes during big game hunts such as the elk hunts chasing elk into cwmu units from public lands in helicopters. Why not question the government? it is our job as citizens to keep them in check. At least as US citizens it should be.
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[quote wiperhunter2]Who was it that was casting stones Bob, I simply ask the question, no one placed any blame but the facts are the facts, I have never seen dead eyes along the shore before but maybe you missed the post where it was stated that the DWR dumped a load of them in the South marina because they were not ready to spawn.
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][#800000]Actually, what was stated in that post was this: [/#800000][#000000][font "Courier New"]"T[/font][font "Courier New"]hey held them for 2 days and they hadn't changed so they took all of them back to the boat ramp and dumped them back into the lake.”[/font][/#000000] Perchound wrote that he talked with Cody. He then made some statements about what they (the DWR) were doing at Willard. At no place in his post did he indicate that he personally witnessed any of what he said the DWR folks were doing. Did he actually see the DWR folks dump them into the water in the South Marina? I don't know; your guess is as good as mine. Perhaps Perchound will to clarify that for us.[/#800000][/font]
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Take another look were I stated that I understand the fish will died after a spawn because of the stress. My only point in this thread was to wonder why the DWR are allowed to dump fish into the marina but tournament fisherfolks can't!!
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]At this point in time, I don't know for sure that the DWR did dump fish in the marina. So far, that has not been definitively verified to be true. At this point in time, I believe you are assuming they did from reading what Perchound wrote. And so far, Perchound hasn't said he personally witnessed the DWR dump any fish into the South Marina.[/#800000][/font]
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Yes, yes, I know the government is above the rules, but that's where I say, THAT IS WRONG. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander, am I wrong in that statement?
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]You are not wrong in that the DWR should abide by the same rules as those they set for us. And when I am shown specifically that they in fact violated their own rules, I’ll call them on it. So far I haven’t been shown any proof that they violated their own rules.[/#800000][/font]
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I know it's not what happens but if they are asking others to follow their rules, then they should too. Enough said!! [/quote]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Curt, I didn’t say anybody was casting stones. I did say I wasn’t casting them at any one individual. Here, let me clarify that for you. My comments are not being directed to any one individual. My comments are directed to BFT members in general. Individual BFT members should not take my comments as a personal attack against their specific postings on BFT. That would include you as not being singled out and being personally being attacked by me.[/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I personally think that the Utah DWR folks are doing a great job managing our natural resources in a manner that will try to benefit the largest number of our resource users. Do they sometimes make errors in judgement? Of course they do; we all do. But the beating they take on social media outlets like BFT for the very slightest error, or perceived error, is truly NOT warranted. The minute something like "dead walleye seen beached in Willard South Marina" shows upon a website, it's automatically the DWR's fault in way too many peoples minds. [/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I don't believe I have attacked you personally in any way, shape, or form on this forum. I have tried to express my opinion and what facts I think I know in a civil manner. If I have not made myself perfectly clear on this matter, please continue the discussion as you see fit. Otherwise, I'll let it go. [/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]However, I just noticed the comments by ripnlip. There are so many holes in his comments they aren't worthy of comment. I don't have the time or the desire to tear that post apart. It is 100%, pure bovine excrement of the highest odor. Besides, it has absolutely nothing to do with dead fish at Willard.[/#800000][/font]
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Point well taken Bob and you are of course correct but still, dead eyes in the marina, where did they come from? [:/] If what I said was not correct, will you take a guess, where do you think they came from. Bob, I did not take your comments as a personal attack, just saw it different than you did
I personally think that the Utah DWR folks are doing a great job as well. The walleye numbers are doing ok at Willard and hopefully better than last year but we will see.
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I don't have a clue about where they came from.
When I was at Willard last week for the first trip of the year in my boat, I talked with one of the DWR guys myself. He just happens to be a friend & neighbor of mine as well. He was there helping in the egg collection. I'll see if I can get in touch with him and ask for clarification on where, exactly, the DWR are returning the collected walleyes to the water. I'll also ask him about seeing the dead fish in the marina that you wrote about and I'll ask if the same dumping rule for tournament fishing is applicable in their egg collection process. I'm also hoping Perchound will see this thread and further clarify what he wrote in another thread on the 22nd.
I'd rather seek out the truth than make speculations as to what happened and/or why it happened. I'll leave the heresy to others who let emotion, rather than facts, guide their opinions and postings. [sly]
Peace to you and yours and Happy Easter. [
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When I was out there last week and talked to DWR they were netting eyes and had plenty of boats with totes for collecting fish or eggs in. I don't know if they harvest the eggs on the spot they net the fish or bring them back to the marina to do the harvesting. If they brought them back they'd have to keep them oxygenated through the whole transport and harvest process. I don't think where they are released would make much difference in survival rates nearly so much as getting them out of the holding containers asap. Maybe that's why they release them in the marina, if they did?
Either way the addition of fish they'll bring back will far outweigh any losses. Just
to have to see em laying around like that.
Who knows though, the current from the channel might just swirl some older fish who turned floaters from the spawn into the marina so us suspicious types can cast blame and weave conspiracy theories from a few dead fish and boats with totes overlooked by mountain goats [
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P.S. those goats were definately placed there by government agents [cool]
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[#0000FF]I have sent an email to Chris Penne (DWR) asking for some insight and clarification on the dead walleyes. I am also asking for an potential changes in attitude on keeping the inlet open to anglers during the spawn.
I anticipate that the response will be along the lines that there is ALWAYS some mortality involved in nettings...for spawning, species numbers surveys, etc. DWR makes every effort to handle the fish carefully and to release them as carefully as possible.
But in addition to natural age attrition, spawning stress and other factors there will be some dieoff each year. How much more, due to DWR handling, is subject to guesswork.
My opinion is that the additional thousands of live new walleye DWR puts back into the lake far outweighs a few adult fish that did not survive the handling during DWR spawning procedures.
On the other hand, I will probably never be able to justify leaving the inlet open to wholesale harvest of larger adult walleyes by the "masses". I can go along with allowing "walleye virgins" an opportunity to add a couple of walleyes to their previously unfulfilled bucket list. What I cain't abide is the numbers of happy harvesters who have the snagging routine perfected and who extract more fish from the lake in a short time than even the most skilled wallieologists do over the next year.
There are a few on this board who defend the decision to leave the inlet open. Some even claim there is really not much snagging going on and that few people are really harvesting walleye. The truth is that the fish come in waves and when the snaggers hit it right...with no DWR folks to stop them...they REALLY DO snag lots of fish and take home far beyond their limits.
I have seen it both ways. Some days (and nights) there are far more anglers than fish...and most of the fish hooked are either hooked fairly or released by knowledgeable anglers. But at other times everybody around the inlet is throwing a big Krocodile spoon with outsize treble hooks...and giving it the Flaming Gorge jigging action on the retrieve.
And contrary to what some on this board believe, there is a well organized network of folks who work together to monitor the fish runs and to get the word out to others. Then they have lookouts who use their cell phones to notify others fishing when someone unknown pulls up and goes down to the inlet. They then have time to change gear and tactics...until they have time to assess whether the new arrival is a fellow jerker or a plain clothes CO.
These same "sportsman" do the same thing in May and June...when the wipers come up into the inlet scour basin for their annual false spawn. Some individuals take several limits a day.
And we blame the DWR for lower numbers of walleyes and wipers. When a large number of prime size fish leave the lake illegally, there are fewer for those who fish legally. It is not a matter of whether or not the spawn is viable or does not produce more fish.
DWR plants enough walleyes and wipers to balance the available forage base. But the management plan gets unbalanced because the happy harvesters are stealing the fish supplied by DWR and reared in the lake for anglers to catch...legally.
There are several of us on this board who have fished Willard Bay going back to the 1970s. We can remember when the forage base was crappies and crawdads. There were no shad or wipers. The crappie were so thick they were pests...and were available year-round in all sizes.
Walleyes were thick too...from natural spawning...and the inlets were closed to fishing during the spawn. And there were many walleye over the mid 20 inch range. In fact, the limit was 6 walleyes with only two over 20 inches. The reality was that it was very difficult to find walleye less than 20"...and a limit was usually two fish over that size.
And before wipers began eating all the crawfish in the early part of the year, before the shad were big enough, catfish were far more numerous and often exceeded 10-15 pounds.
Bluegill were also very numerous...along with the now virtually extinct green sunfish. Another casualty of the wiper vacuum cleaners that eat anything when the shad are not available.
Bottom line? DWR is doing a great job of TRYING to manage Willard. But their efforts are based upon ongoing surveys of shad populations and then adding wipers and walleyes to balance the predator and prey numbers. All that can be sabotaged when groups of happy harvesters combine to remove excessive numbers of either wipers or adult walleyes that would normally be spread out over a year in legal angler creel census counts.
I have heard the argument that this harvest makes no difference...that it is a big lake with lots of fish. True dat. But at any given time there are a limited number of any species...and they occupy different areas of the lake. And finding them is never a guarantee of success. So the more large active fish that are removed "unnaturally" the fewer there are for the legal anglers with legal means. A drop of a few thousand adults...from an original planting of 200,000 fry...after normal dieoff and attrition...is the equivalent of planting many thousand fewer fry. So every adult harvested (legally or illegally) represents hundreds (if not thousands) of fry planted a couple of years before.
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Excellent post Tubedude! Spot on and truthful. Thank You
Obviously, the construction of the parking lot near the spawning grounds concide with the opening of the inlet and resultant snagging during the spawn.
Difficult to believe the timing of the lot was just coincidental in nature and the apparent minor law enforcement efforts during the spawn likely an attempt to not discourage use of the parking lot and collection of parking fees
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[#0000FF]It does seem like a coincidence that the new parking facilities coincided with relaxing of regulations at the inlet. But I lean toward believing that it was a necessary move to reduce the congestion and potential traffic hazards of the way people were parking there before.
Those who go there only to fish and night...and work their Krocodiles of mass destruction...usually do so without buying a parking pass anyway. The rangers seldom (if ever) work after hours to check parking passes. Happy harvesters can hit and run before anybody on the State Park staff even knows they were there. Only the walleye know for sure.
Let's not over-politicize this. Simply a bad timing thing...if anything.
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I'm curious how wiperhunters post of a question concerning dead walleye turns into a political conspiracy of who's a sportsman who's not who's to blame for the loss of a few dead walleye at the marina. Everyone on here seems to have all the answers of how this body of water should be managed if that's the case then go get employed with the proper agency and make it happen instead of always having ingredients a negative thing to say about our DNR and fellow members. This board was designed to encourage fishing and fishing techniques not to bash and badger the DNR and others. This board has turned into the good ol boys club. Get back to the basics.
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Curt, I think with the number of fish that they handle it is not feasible to run them back out in a boat when they can just release them in the marina? As for the dead fish I think that's an unfortunate side effect of handling that many fish and it outways the the good they are doing?
But this is just my thoughts and Thoughts are one in a million.
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All right gentleman here are the FACTS!
As a small group of fishing buddies Thursday evening (inlet channel) witnessed with our own eyes the DNR running a gill net across the channel just below the inlet where it necks down into the channel! Hundreds of walleye were floating DEAD from this! This is a fact! That being said they may have netted and released walleye earlier in the season but all the dead your witnessing now are from this event.
It gets better.......
I believe there where 4 biologists /officers in the boat that evening 100yrds down from the fisherman. Well this particular evening turned into a snag fest! I am NOT racist but those of the Asian decent were filling there soy sauce buckets! We walked over to them explaining the limit is 6 you have 8 and you MuST release foul hooked fish! They didn’t speak a lick of English.....
We were all pretty upset between the DNR killing the Wallaye and unethical fisherman we left!
No one was checked by the DNR that evening even with them all being near?...
Friday we all called in to report the incident and were assured they are doing there best? I have personally fished the inlet 6 times this season and haven’t been checked!
I hope the DNR took our descriptions and there vehicle info we gave and hammered these guys!
But honestly What is going to take for the DNR to stop rapping Willard bay!? They tell us they use the eggs and have planted a million 1/4” fish??? Come on! I want real #’s on how these fish are doing...
How big are they now? How many survived etc.
It’s a
state of affairs Willard could be an epic Walleye water!
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Well that makes sense, it seems unlikely that fish put back into the lake because they were not ready to spawn would show up in the marina but it's for sure possible that they washed down the channel, from the inlet gill nets and ended up by the boat docks. When using gill nets there are always going to be a certain amount that die and since we were there the next day after you saw this, that's probably what happened. They can't take eggs or milt from dead fish, I don't believe. I wonder what they do with the dead fish they take out of the nets[:/]. The DWR does publish the results from their gill nets survey and collections. I'm sure we could find the results from last years effects, if you are interested but the results from this year will likely be weeks or more from now. I think the info you shared has answered my questions, thanks.
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excellent point s thanks for posting . i couldn't say it better
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I have been to some of the RAK meetings concerning the walleye in Willard Bay and it was a total waste of time for the few fisherman fishermen that have showed up, they say according to their creel reports and netting that there are plenty of walleye in Willard and no need for the concern of what goes on in the channel in the spring. So I guess according to our wonderful DWR we need not be concerned Curt. [cool][cool]
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Bob I watched a show of Adam Eakles where they were doing a gill net study in another of my favorite waters Starvation and noted several dead walleye in the nets. MADE ME CRINGE[mad][mad][mad][mad]
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