Fishing Forum

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I have a question for those experienced in fishing for macs and Flaming Gorge and Fish Lake. I plan on spending more time on both lakes, but have little experience with Macs. I caught a few small pups at the gorge the one time I went there, though we were mostly targeting kokes.

My question is on my setup. I have a 24' pontoon boat with 2 manual Scotty downriggers off the back. I don't yet have a trolling motor set up on it, but the main motor (90hp) slows down pretty good for trolling for now.

I have 2 very different pairs of trolling rods and I'm wondering what might be best to use.

I have a pair of Eagle Claw Starfire Trolling Rods. The rod says SF 403, 10' rods with line size 20-30 lb. It also says 'Diver Rod' on it. They are in nearly new condition, but look like they may be a bit older (not sure on that). 10' rods seem incredibly long to me.

I also have a pair of brand new Daiwa Wilderness DR70MHR (also shows model # WLDR 70 MHR 7', MH 12-25 LB. A 7' rod seems a little more manageable and I would also like to use them to try my hand at jigging to see if I can make that work.

Any recommendations on which would be best for the macs and suggestions on using them. I have a couple of older reels used for trolling, like a Penn 209 and similar, and also a huge spinning reel that I have no idea what it was ever used for. Don't really have the budget to get top of the line reels. Suggestions on rigging the reels for trolling and/or jigging? I would think the spinning reel would be best for the jigging with the Penns for trolling.

Any other tips for a mac newbie would be greatly appreciated!!

I use the same reels and line for macs that I use for Kokanee. Abu Garcia 5500C3 loaded with 12 pound test mono. I have only had to chase macs with the boat for fear of being spooled a few times and have landed some over 40 pounds. Any decnt rod is fine for trolling for Lake Trout. For jigging I use a smaller baitcaster loaded with braid you will find jigging in the neighborhood of 100' mono is much harder to feel the hits due to it's stretch than braid. In my opinion the Penn 209s are to large and the drags not smooth enough unless you are running 50Lb test but I only troll with smaller lures not the large popgear chub combos. So what you are pulling would help you decide what size to use.

(03-02-2020, 09:36 PM)lifeshort Wrote: [ -> ]I use the same reels and line for macs that I use for Kokanee. Abu Garcia 5500C3 loaded with 12 pound test mono. I have only had to chase macs with the boat for fear of being spooled a few times and have landed some over 40 pounds. Any decnt rod is fine for trolling for Lake Trout. For jigging I use a smaller baitcaster loaded with braid you will find jigging in the neighborhood of 100' mono is much harder to feel the hits due to it's stretch than braid. In my opinion the Penn 209s are to large and the drags not smooth enough unless you are running 50Lb test but I only troll with smaller lures not the large popgear chub combos. So what you are pulling would help you decide what size to use.

Thanks for the input. Where do you usually fish for them?
I've used the Penn reels for trolling pop gear or for leaded line on the berry, before I had downriggers. My one trip on the Gorge I only pulled out one of those poles once, and that was to use the leaded line to try to get a 3rd pole deep enough with 2 others on the downriggers. The riggers had normal spinning combos targeting kokes. Nothing special. Most of my rod/reel combos are $50 or less and don't have the budget to dump hundreds into a rod/reel. We did have one big hit. I was up near the middle of my pontoon with someone else steering it (trolling) and another guy on the downrigger, trolling pretty close to the ledges. The guy on the downrigger said he thought he had a snag and started working it as a snag. I had the guy driving put it in neutral as it was spooling the line off really fast and we started bringing in the other poles. Well, I knew my downrigger was at about 60'. I looked on the finder and we were over 120' of water. That was no snag. Unfortunately, at the moment we realized that he lost the hookset and it was gone. We probably could have had a really fun fight on our hands (or lost a whole spool of spiderwire) if we had worked it as a hookset and not a snag, keeping more tension on the line at all times.
Now I'm about to the point of begging someone to go to the Gorge with me to try to actually target the macs! I just want to make sure I have gear that will do the job.

Any other tips or ideas, or input on the rods mentioned originally? I'm debating keeping all of them or selling one of the pairs of rods or trading for other good fishing gear.

(03-02-2020, 09:36 PM)lifeshort Wrote: [ -> ]I use the same reels and line for macs that I use for Kokanee. Abu Garcia 5500C3 loaded with 12 pound test mono. I have only had to chase macs with the boat for fear of being spooled a few times and have landed some over 40 pounds. Any decnt rod is fine for trolling for Lake Trout. For jigging I use a smaller baitcaster loaded with braid you will find jigging in the neighborhood of 100' mono is much harder to feel the hits due to it's stretch than braid. In my opinion the Penn 209s are to large and the drags not smooth enough unless you are running 50Lb test but I only troll with smaller lures not the large popgear chub combos. So what you are pulling would help you decide what size to use.

Had a small chuckle on the braid versus mono. Tarponjim, who guides a ton on the Gorge, has an excellent demostration on that topic which I have been privileged to see several times when someone asked why he doesn't use braid. He is a very adament proponent of mono and jigs 100 ft depths. Basically the advantages of mono over braid after a jigging hookup far outweight the slight increase in sensitivity braid provides.

(03-03-2020, 07:46 PM)stan55 Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-02-2020, 09:36 PM)lifeshort Wrote: [ -> ]I use the same reels and line for macs that I use for Kokanee. Abu Garcia 5500C3 loaded with 12 pound test mono. I have only had to chase macs with the boat for fear of being spooled a few times and have landed some over 40 pounds. Any decnt rod is fine for trolling for Lake Trout. For jigging I use a smaller baitcaster loaded with braid you will find jigging in the neighborhood of 100' mono is much harder to feel the hits due to it's stretch than braid. In my opinion the Penn 209s are to large and the drags not smooth enough unless you are running 50Lb test but I only troll with smaller lures not the large popgear chub combos. So what you are pulling would help you decide what size to use.

Had a small chuckle on the braid versus mono. Tarponjim, who guides a ton on the Gorge, has an excellent demostration on that topic which I have been privileged to see several times when someone asked why he doesn't use braid. He is a very adament proponent of mono and jigs 100 ft depths. Basically the advantages of mono over braid after a jigging hookup far outweight the slight increase in sensitivity braid provides.

What tackle do you use when targeting Macs?

(03-03-2020, 07:46 PM)stan55 Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-02-2020, 09:36 PM)lifeshort Wrote: [ -> ]I use the same reels and line for macs that I use for Kokanee. Abu Garcia 5500C3 loaded with 12 pound test mono. I have only had to chase macs with the boat for fear of being spooled a few times and have landed some over 40 pounds. Any decnt rod is fine for trolling for Lake Trout. For jigging I use a smaller baitcaster loaded with braid you will find jigging in the neighborhood of 100' mono is much harder to feel the hits due to it's stretch than braid. In my opinion the Penn 209s are to large and the drags not smooth enough unless you are running 50Lb test but I only troll with smaller lures not the large popgear chub combos. So what you are pulling would help you decide what size to use.

Had a small chuckle on the braid versus mono. Tarponjim, who guides a ton on the Gorge, has an excellent demostration on that topic which I have been privileged to see several times when someone asked why he doesn't use braid. He is a very adament proponent of mono and jigs 100 ft depths. Basically the advantages of mono over braid after a jigging hookup far outweight the slight increase in sensitivity braid provides.

That's one of those Chevy v Ford issues, I'm a braid guy for sure... Did my time lost my fish with mono won't do that anymore... Only thing mono does is gives you a cushion or spring in the system if you screw up and need the stretch... Problem is, if you can't get the hook stuck in the fish you don't have to worry about screwing up later... But to everyone their own opinion on that one... Later Jeff

I use ugly stik 7'6" ML Striper rod, 15 lbs florocarbon, shimano tekota a 600lc and tekot 600lc reels. I do stop the boat when hooked into a bigger fish and use my drag system.

(03-05-2020, 05:59 AM)muirco Wrote: [ -> ]I use ugly stik 7'6" ML Striper rod, 15 lbs florocarbon, shimano tekota a 600lc and tekot 600lc reels. I do stop the boat when hooked into a bigger fish and use my drag system.

Well that adds another layer to the discussion above regarding mono vs. braid. Now you mention florocarbon.

What are the +/- for each?

We all grew up with mono, though I'm sure the technology is a lot better now. I switched over to braid for the most part several years ago due to too many lost fish trolling Strawberry. Now the only time I lose one is to a bad hookset. I've never used floro and don't know a lot about it.

(03-03-2020, 05:40 PM)addicted2fishin Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-02-2020, 09:36 PM)lifeshort Wrote: [ -> ]I use the same reels and line for macs that I use for Kokanee. Abu Garcia 5500C3 loaded with 12 pound test mono. I have only had to chase macs with the boat for fear of being spooled a few times and have landed some over 40 pounds. Any decnt rod is fine for trolling for Lake Trout. For jigging I use a smaller baitcaster loaded with braid you will find jigging in the neighborhood of 100' mono is much harder to feel the hits due to it's stretch than braid. In my opinion the Penn 209s are to large and the drags not smooth enough unless you are running 50Lb test but I only troll with smaller lures not the large popgear chub combos. So what you are pulling would help you decide what size to use.

Thanks for the input. Where do you usually fish for them?
I've used the Penn reels for trolling pop gear or for leaded line on the berry, before I had downriggers. My one trip on the Gorge I only pulled out one of those poles once, and that was to use the leaded line to try to get a 3rd pole deep enough with 2 others on the downriggers. The riggers had normal spinning combos targeting kokes. Nothing special. Most of my rod/reel combos are $50 or less and don't have the budget to dump hundreds into a rod/reel. We did have one big hit. I was up near the middle of my pontoon with someone else steering it (trolling) and another guy on the downrigger, trolling pretty close to the ledges. The guy on the downrigger said he thought he had a snag and started working it as a snag. I had the guy driving put it in neutral as it was spooling the line off really fast and we started bringing in the other poles. Well, I knew my downrigger was at about 60'. I looked on the finder and we were over 120' of water. That was no snag. Unfortunately, at the moment we realized that he lost the hookset and it was gone. We probably could have had a really fun fight on our hands (or lost a whole spool of spiderwire) if we had worked it as a hookset and not a snag, keeping more tension on the line at all times.
Now I'm about to the point of begging someone to go to the Gorge with me to try to actually target the macs! I just want to make sure I have gear that will do the job.

Any other tips or ideas, or input on the rods mentioned originally? I'm debating keeping all of them or selling one of the pairs of rods or trading for other good fishing gear.

PM sent

(03-05-2020, 03:40 PM)addicted2fishin Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-05-2020, 05:59 AM)muirco Wrote: [ -> ]I use ugly stik 7'6" ML Striper rod, 15 lbs florocarbon, shimano tekota a 600lc and tekot 600lc reels. I do stop the boat when hooked into a bigger fish and use my drag system.

Well that adds another layer to the discussion above regarding mono vs. braid. Now you mention florocarbon.

What are the +/- for each?

We all grew up with mono, though I'm sure the technology is a lot better now. I switched over to braid for the most part several years ago due to too many lost fish trolling Strawberry. Now the only time I lose one is to a bad hookset. I've never used floro and don't know a lot about it.

I tried braid...hated it for trolling. It got embedded in itself and would lock up with a big laker. Then I went with mono tipped with florocarbon. I hated the knot going through the level wind so switched to straight florocarbon...never looked back! I will say I still use braid tipped with florocarbon for jigging burbot, but I only use florocarbon jigging for Lakers. I have allot of setups, so it just depends on the application for me. Hope you find what you like! Florocarbon is pricey compared to mono. Find what you like by trial and error. Everyone likes different line.

(03-06-2020, 09:01 PM)muirco Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-05-2020, 03:40 PM)addicted2fishin Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-05-2020, 05:59 AM)muirco Wrote: [ -> ]I use ugly stik 7'6" ML Striper rod, 15 lbs florocarbon, shimano tekota a 600lc and tekot 600lc reels. I do stop the boat when hooked into a bigger fish and use my drag system.

Well that adds another layer to the discussion above regarding mono vs. braid. Now you mention florocarbon.

What are the +/- for each?

We all grew up with mono, though I'm sure the technology is a lot better now. I switched over to braid for the most part several years ago due to too many lost fish trolling Strawberry. Now the only time I lose one is to a bad hookset. I've never used floro and don't know a lot about it.

I tried braid...hated it for trolling. It got embedded in itself and would lock up with a big laker. Then I went with mono tipped with florocarbon. I hated the knot going through the level wind so switched to straight florocarbon...never looked back! I will say I still use braid tipped with florocarbon for jigging burbot, but I only use florocarbon jigging for Lakers. I have allot of setups, so it just depends on the application for me. Hope you find what you like! Florocarbon is pricey compared to mono. Find what you like by trial and error. Everyone likes different line.

Thanks for the info. It's always interesting hearing different opinions on different lines and gear. As I'm new to trying for lake trout, what size and brand of florocarbon do you use when you spool up on floro? Is there a reason, other than cost, that you don't use it for other applications? Does it work better or worse on some types of reels than others? I only have a couple of semi-decent setups, then a whole bunch of $20 setups for the kids to use/abuse.
Any other tips/tricks?

I saw this 2 manual Scotty downriggers

I don't think that would be a lot of fun if you want to know where to fish for them buy a fishNmap for FG most sports stores have them.
If you want to learn how to jig for them .
go to this Salt Lake International Sportsmen’s Expohttps://www.sportsexpos.com/attend/saltl...0/#showTop

(03-11-2020, 12:41 AM)liketrolling Wrote: [ -> ]I saw this 2 manual Scotty downriggers

I don't think that would be a lot of fun if you want to know where to fish for them buy a fishNmap for FG most sports stores have them.
If you want to learn how to jig for them .
go to this Salt Lake International Sportsmen’s Expohttps://www.sportsexpos.com/attend/saltl...0/#showTop

The manual downriggers aren't that difficult once you get the motion down, and there are a lot of other places I need to spend $1,000 other than on downriggers. I like the clutch system on the Scotty's and in just a few motions with pole in one hand and the other on the clutch, I can get the rig down just where I want it to be. Also, the way I have them set up it takes about 5 seconds to remove and store them so they aren't stolen or in the way. No need for wires to unplug and store, no extra battery, no motors to wear out, etc..
I do have the fishnmap for the Gorge. I just need to learn technique, rigs, gear, etc..
I have been to the Sportsman's Expo many times over the years. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much learning there. The crowds are too big for someone to spend much time giving free advice. Everyone at the booths paid a hefty price to sell their products / services and they aren't selling much if they are shooting the breeze. Many of them, understandably, need to spend time seeing as many people as possible and pushing their wares.
This is the reason I posted here. There are a lot of people with experience here that are quite helpful, and they can post any help at their leisure.

A2F, manual DRs are okay and do the job. But I would HIGHLY recommend that you investigate using a device called a Shuttle Hawk (Mack's Lures). Here is a link to a youtube video that shows you what it is and how to use it.

The video shows using it for a stacked line above your DR weight line. What I am suggesting is that you use it without stacking - let it go all the way down to the DR weight depth. When you get a strike, the fishing line releases from the Shuttle Hawk and the Shuttle Hawk returns to the surface while you catch the fish. After the fish is caught, just reattach the line to the Shuttle Hawk and send it back down. You will completly eliminate the need to hand crank your DR weight all the way up and all the way back down with each fish caught. Send it down once when you start and bring it back up when you're done for the day. Also, I use Off Shore releases (White) for all my DR fishing. And you can adjust the DR weight depth up or down with little effort and no line releases while doing so.

(03-11-2020, 06:55 PM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]A2F, manual DRs are okay and do the job. But I would HIGHLY recommend that you investigate using a device called a Shuttle Hawk (Mack's Lures). Here is a link to a youtube video that shows you what it is and how to use it.

The video shows using it for a stacked line above your DR weight line. What I am suggesting is that you use it without stacking - let it go all the way down to the DR weight depth. When you get a strike, the fishing line releases from the Shuttle Hawk and the Shuttle Hawk returns to the surface while you catch the fish. After the fish is caught, just reattach the line to the Shuttle Hawk and send it back down. You will completly eliminate the need to hand crank your DR weight all the way up and all the way back down with each fish caught. Send it down once when you start and bring it back up when you're done for the day. Also, I use Off Shore releases (White) for all my DR fishing. And you can adjust the DR weight depth up or down with little effort and no line releases while doing so.

Well those Shuttle Hawks just look like a game-changer for manual downrigging! It looks like they will avoid the juggling act of dropping the downrigger weight at the same time you are trying to control the line going off your reel. Drop the downrigger first, get that set up, then let out the line on the shuttle hawk. I like it! Now I just need to go find a couple of them and learn how to use them as the releases on that video look a little tricky. You mentioned you use offshore releases. Any specific brand? Any reason why?
I do have one question on these. With the regular downrigger setup you usually tighten up the line pretty good, with a heavy bend in your rod, so you get the snap when it releases. How does that work with the Shuttle Hawk as I would think reeling it in tighter would just start bringing the shuttle back up your downrigger line. Thoughts?
Also, theoretically it sounds like you could drop the downrigger down to a deep depth for macs, but have the stopper and shuttle hawk up shallower for kokes. Any problems with this other than the stopper on the rigger line that would prevent you from bringing the ball all the way up until the stopper is removed?

Thanks again for the tip!

The drag that the shuttle Hawks put on the pole while trying to keep diving give them a fair amount of bend depending on how stiff the pole is. I didn't watch the video but two things that you can do to not have to use that stoppers are either watch how deep the shuttle Hawks are on the fish finder if you have one or get some reels with line counters to know when you are down to the depth that you want.

(03-11-2020, 08:30 PM)addicted2fishin Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks again for the tip!

Easier if we talk on the phone. Sent you an email with my phone number.

(03-11-2020, 11:11 PM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-11-2020, 08:30 PM)addicted2fishin Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks again for the tip!

Easier if we talk on the phone. Sent you an email with my phone number.

Thanks for the chat on the phone the other day. I appreciate your time. I'm really anxious for it to warm up so I can try to find my way up to the gorge with the pontoon. Now I just need to find these things. Amazon had them, but their algorithms jumped the price after I first looked at it. Now they are out of stock. it looks like Sportsmans online has them, but a steep $9 shipping. I wish I lived closer to a Sportsmans. We don't have one out here in the Tooele area.

(03-23-2020, 02:16 PM)addicted2fishin Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-11-2020, 11:11 PM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-11-2020, 08:30 PM)addicted2fishin Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks again for the tip!
Easier if we talk on the phone. Sent you an email with my phone number.
Thanks for the chat on the phone the other day. I appreciate your time. I'm really anxious for it to warm up so I can try to find my way up to the gorge with the pontoon. Now I just need to find these things. Amazon had them, but their algorithms jumped the price after I first looked at it. Now they are out of stock. it looks like Sportsman's online has them, but a steep $9 shipping. I wish I lived closer to a Sportsman's. We don't have one out here in the Tooele area.

Sportsman's Warehouse has free standard shipping on orders of $49.01 and up. Here's what you need to do to get that free shipping on the Shuttle Hawks (SH). Order 2 of them. The release clips on the Shuttle Hawks are not very good and you will want to replace them with these: Off Shore Tackle Light (White) Releases. They are $9.99 each for singles. However, you can get 2 clips with a single purchase of the Off Shore Tackle Light (White) Stacker Downrigger Release at $13.99. Total order is now $42.57. Add one more item that costs at least $6.44 and you will meet the requirement for free standard shipping. Certainly, there has to be a new lure that you've been wanting to buy that will cost at least $6.44. Big Grin

Replace the SH clips with the Off Shore clips and your all set. And you'll have gotten it all with free shipping to your door.

OK, got to get in on this one. First thing, I feel lost without my boat. I loaned it to my son in Washington State three years ago for the summer and have not seen it again. LOL Seems his mother, my wife, gave it to him and wants me to get a bigger boat. I don't have room for a BIGGER BOAT. The cost of storing one in a commercial facility that allows me to pick it up on my schedule, at my times, is more than a boat payment in this state. Ugggg. I won't be able to take anyone out and show them. I sure do wish I could.

But, on MY SON'S BOAT, I have it rigged with a Cannon electric. It self raises at the touch of a switch and with a revolving spool reel it is not that hard to let out line. Still, the Shuttle Hawk is great. Just order some replacement stops from Macks Lures (I don't know of another source) because they will break or get lost eventually.

Now, for the line comparrisons. There is NO PERFECT LINE! But, the Chevy, Ford, Dodge comparrison is only partly true. Preferences factor in, but so do technique.

1) Mono is inexpensive, but get the best you can find. Still, all nylon monofillament has between 18% and 22% stretch. One way of reducing effective stretch is upsizing the line rating (strength). This does not change actual stretch, but it does reduce the working stretch. Unfortunately it also increases stiffness, reduce managability, etc. Lots of fish are lost due to poor hook sets while deep trolling but hard hook sets will help.

2) Florocarbon is less visible. The visibility issue is not to clarilty, but to refraction. When light passes through something it either reflects, giving us what we see as color, or it refracts, usually revealing itself as a shadow. I don't believe that it is necessary myself, but the advantages are not limited to visibility. Florocarbon only has 8% to 12% stretch. It is stiffer, less managable then Mono, but with less stretch you don't need to upsize your line rating, so you have better managability compared to oversized mono. Because we are trolling, not casting, Floro is a good option. It is much more expensive then Mono but less expensive then braid.

3) Braid is visible. At 60 feet I am not sure a moss green braid is that visible, but green does penetrate depths so it can be an issue. It is super thin for the line rating so it cuts through the water better. It only has between 3% to 5% thickness, so sensitivity and hook sets are super good, but it lacks that spring safety factor. Probably the biggest issue it the knots that need to be used and the knot to leader connection. First, you don't need 10 feet of leader, so keeping a managable leader length will help. Second, knots that will hold well with the slick braid are available and I suggest looking at the Uni and the Palamar knots. For the braid to leader connection, the FG knot is hard to learn, but is super thin and super strong once mastered.

Last, that extra lure suggested? Try this one.
https://www.sportsmans.com/fishing-gear-.../p/1491630

It is one of my better lures for that.

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