I'm a bit
on the new increased fee structure. Those of you that have purchased a season boat launch pass, are you also paying for a season day use pass? They both are $122 ea. I ask because I see a few people talking about buying a season boat launch pass and am wondering if they also have to pay a day use fee.
If I'm camping and paying a camp fee that is my day use fee so doesn't make sense I should also have to pay a separate boat launch fee unless they are going to charge both a day use fee and boat launch fee each time someone goes through the gate to launch a boat.
I camped at SC side paid camp fee and boat launch fee for each day/launch
Camp and launch are separate fees. Not sure about day use and boat launch or how season passes work.
(06-15-2021, 03:47 PM)Mildog Wrote: [ -> ]I camped at SC side paid camp fee and boat launch fee for each day/launch
Camp and launch are separate fees. Not sure about day use and boat launch or how season passes work.
Yes they are trying to charge a separate fee for launching your boat if you're camping. The only way this makes sense is if they are also charging non-campers both a day use fee and the boat launch fee to launch a boat. That is my question. Has anyone had is not camping had to pay both a day use fee and boat launch fee?
I have a long term campsite (3 months) at $17/day. That is for the campsite only, so I also purchase a yearly launch pass. That lets you launch, then park your truck and trailer in the marina parking lot while you are on the lake. I am not sure how the launch pass differs from a day use pass or whether both are required if not camping.
In previous years, before Utah Recreation Co got the concession launching was included with the campsite along with the waste dump fee. At first I was unhappy with the added fees, but now am not unhappy with the product. They have helpful camp hosts, the bathrooms are kept clean and for the most part things work. The fish cleaning station at the marina could use some repair but that seems to be an issue everywhere.
When we go up for the day, We only pay for a boat launch.
I'm curious if anybody has ever contacted the Uinta-Wasatch-Cache (UWC) Forest Supervisor about any of this. Since Strawberry is part of the UWC Forest, it would seem to me to be an issue to discuss with them. Utah Recreation is managing Strawberry under a permit issued to them by the UWC Forest office in Soth Jordan. And just so you know, Utah Recreation does NOT have any authority to issue citations for violations of any state or federal laws. Only a state or federal LEO can do that. There is a full-time Federal LEO assigned to Pineview; I'm not sure if there is one assigned to Strawberry full-time.
I agree that under AL&L management, your camping permit was your authorization to also launch your boat while you were camped there. Utah Recreation charging the launch fee while you are camping there doesn't seem right to me and have contacted the UWC Forest Office in South Jordan for a clarification of this. When I get a diffinitive answer on this, I'll let you know.
(06-15-2021, 06:11 PM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]Bob,
It would be good to know what they say. In the past Boat Launch was included, then they started charging for both, I think 2 years ago. If you have America beautiful pass you get half price on camp only if single spot only no hookups. Why not discount on boat launch or other camping or free entrance with that pass? I have had people tell me they get in to parking areas for free with that pass? I can't confirm that, just what I was told??
If I can park the boat near camp-spot and leave it in the water, they only charge for one launch fee?
Thanks for checking will be interested in what they tell you.
Mildog
I'm curious if anybody has ever contacted the Uinta-Wasatch-Cache (UWC) Forest Supervisor about any of this. Since Strawberry is part of the UWC Forest, it would seem to me to be an issue to discuss with them. Utah Recreation is managing Strawberry under a permit issued to them by the UWC Forest office in Soth Jordan. And just so you know, Utah Recreation does NOT have any authority to issue citations for violations of any state or federal laws. Only a state or federal LEO can do that. There is a full-time Federal LEO assigned to Pineview; I'm not sure if there is one assigned to Strawberry full-time.
I agree that under AL&L management, your camping permit was your authorization to also launch your boat while you were camped there. Utah Recreation charging the launch fee while you are camping there doesn't seem right to me and have contacted the UWC Forest Office in South Jordan for a clarification of this. When I get a diffinitive answer on this, I'll let you know.
(06-15-2021, 05:01 PM)brookie Wrote: [ -> ]I have a long term campsite (3 months) at $17/day. That is for the campsite only, so I also purchase a yearly launch pass. That lets you launch, then park your truck and trailer in the marina parking lot while you are on the lake. I am not sure how the launch pass differs from a day use pass or whether both are required if not camping.
In previous years, before Utah Recreation Co got the concession launching was included with the campsite along with the waste dump fee. At first I was unhappy with the added fees, but now am not unhappy with the product. They have helpful camp hosts, the bathrooms are kept clean and for the most part things work. The fish cleaning station at the marina could use some repair but that seems to be an issue everywhere.
Yes, this is what they are doing but I do not think this is right. They're saying that if you pay the day use fee it includes launching or vise versa, if you purchase a launch pass it counts for your day use fee but if you're camping we're going to charge you an extra fee just for the launch ramp on top. That just isn't right as we're paying plenty for a camp site.
These guys have been ripping off the public for years, so why should it surprise anyone that they continue to do so !!! Like I have said on several other posts, both Strawberry and Pineview should be under State control as State Parks. This bovine scatology of having some private company ripping off people for campfees, day use fees, and launch fees is ridiculous !!!
When does the contract come up again for Strawberry?
Pretty sure it’s a 10 year contract. Also would guess we have no say. I think the companies bid for the contract, so it is all based financial.
(06-15-2021, 05:01 PM)brookie Wrote: [ -> ]I have a long term campsite (3 months) at $17/day. That is for the campsite only, so I also purchase a yearly launch pass. That lets you launch, then park your truck and trailer in the marina parking lot while you are on the lake. I am not sure how the launch pass differs from a day use pass or whether both are required if not camping.
In previous years, before Utah Recreation Co got the concession launching was included with the campsite along with the waste dump fee. At first I was unhappy with the added fees, but now am not unhappy with the product. They have helpful camp hosts, the bathrooms are kept clean and for the most part things work. The fish cleaning station at the marina could use some repair but that seems to be an issue everywhere.
Now, that there is a massive understatement. The fish cleaning station at the marina is a disaster. The facilities manager should be embarrassed.
The UWC Forest employee who oversees the contract called me back this afternoon and we had a very pleasant exchange of information. The UWC Forest contract involves approximately 135 campgrounds and day use areas within UWC. The full contract is available through FOIA, but is not available through normal Internet search engines. I don’t have the time or desire to request it through the FOIA channels. But if you want to pursue that, please do.
The rate (fee) system is all spelled out in that document. And according to the UWC Employee I talked to, the additional launch fee being charged campers has been on the books since 2018. The contract also sets cost limits that the contractor can spend on maintenance or replacement/repair of equipment or facilities. The limits are set very low which is why you will not see any major infrastructure upgrades from the contractor.
This next paragraph is just my opinion based on my own contract negotiation experience as a DoD civil servant. The double speak for this contract says the contractor can make as much money as they can squeeze out of the customer. The terms of the contract were negotiated between the contractor and the USDA/USFS. Anybody here remember the $640 C-5 toilet seat and a $435 hammer purchase during the Reagan administration? Government contract negotiators have never been known for thier economic expertise.
You can choose to take an active participation in this ludicrous situation by contacting the UWC Forest main office in South Jordan and your Federal Congressional lackeys and voice your opinion, or you can continue to urinate & moan about it on social media. I’ve already told the UWC that I am less than pleased with the current fee system and plan to write Rep Moore and Sen Romney (Mod note removed the "gag" - not really a rules issue but since I removed the other political comment, figured I had to be fair) and Lee about my feelings on this issue.
I may have absolutely no impact on the issue, but I will have done what I can to try to change it. What say you? Are you willing to at least try?
The contact at the UWC in South Jordan is Renee Flanagan (RHWL Staff Officer) at 801‐999‐2157. If you get her voice mail, leave a request for her to call you back and she will.
Then they wonder why fishing and hunting is going down in participation. I haven't fished Strawberry in 5 years can t figure it out?????????
I will contact the UWC and voice my frustration as well. I pay for enough taxes, license fees, registration, insurance, equipment, etc. that it is one more straw on the camel's back to show up to Strawberry and have them try to double charge me for facilities where half the bathrooms are closed, and the docks are in shambles. As if they don't make enough money scalping tackle for 2x what it's worth, and charging $800 for a 1/2 day guided adventure dunking power bait.
I shared the story before, but literally being boxed by a Utah Recreation Company employee's truck last year so that he could check for my payment slip, while I was in the process of turning down into the boat ramp, really boiled me over. I'm pretty sure unlawful detainment isn't in the terms of their contract.
Moderator note - the difference between the two issues was explained well in a post later in this thread (IE the Phillps Family Operation is a completely different discussion)
(06-16-2021, 12:42 AM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]The UWC Forest employee who oversees the contract called me back this afternoon and we had a very pleasant exchange of information. The UWC Forest contract involves approximately 135 campgrounds and day use areas within UWC. The full contract is available through FOIA, but is not available through normal Internet search engines. I don’t have the time or desire to request it through the FOIA channels. But if you want to pursue that, please do.
The rate (fee) system is all spelled out in that document. And according to the UWC Employee I talked to, the additional launch fee being charged campers has been on the books since 2018. The contract also sets cost limits that the contractor can spend on maintenance or replacement/repair of equipment or facilities. The limits are set very low which is why you will not see any major infrastructure upgrades from the contractor.
This next paragraph is just my opinion based on my own contract negotiation experience as a DoD civil servant. The double speak for this contract says the contractor can make as much money as they can squeeze out of the customer. The terms of the contract were negotiated between the contractor and the USDA/USFS. Anybody here remember the $640 C-5 toilet seat and a $435 hammer purchase during the Reagan administration? Government contract negotiators have never been known for thier economic expertise.
You can choose to take an active participation in this ludicrous situation by contacting the UWC Forest main office in South Jordan and your Federal Congressional lackeys and voice your opinion, or you can continue to urinate & moan about it on social media. I’ve already told the UWC that I am less than pleased with the current fee system and plan to write Rep Moore and Sen Romney and Lee about my feelings on this issue.
I may have absolutely no impact on the issue, but I will have done what I can to try to change it. What say you? Are you willing to at least try?
The contact at the UWC in South Jordan is Renee Flanagan (RHWL Staff Officer) at 801‐999‐2157. If you get her voice mail, leave a request for her to call you back and she will.
Mod Note - I removed political ref to Mit R. The rest feels like a shot at members so I tweaked it. I dont have your gift for words. Sorry
i think ill just keep backing down and launching my boat at east portal for free (Mod note- Your choice of course)
best of luck with your large expensive boat 1st world problems (Mod note - their choice of course)
yad think they were makin yall bust out another grand - ( Mod note - I gave my additional grand at the gas pump)
(06-16-2021, 12:42 AM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]The UWC Forest employee who oversees the contract called me back this afternoon and we had a very pleasant exchange of information. The UWC Forest contract involves approximately 135 campgrounds and day use areas within UWC. The full contract is available through FOIA, but is not available through normal Internet search engines. I don’t have the time or desire to request it through the FOIA channels. But if you want to pursue that, please do.
The rate (fee) system is all spelled out in that document. And according to the UWC Employee I talked to, the additional launch fee being charged campers has been on the books since 2018. The contract also sets cost limits that the contractor can spend on maintenance or replacement/repair of equipment or facilities. The limits are set very low which is why you will not see any major infrastructure upgrades from the contractor.
This next paragraph is just my opinion based on my own contract negotiation experience as a DoD civil servant. The double speak for this contract says the contractor can make as much money as they can squeeze out of the customer. The terms of the contract were negotiated between the contractor and the USDA/USFS. Anybody here remember the $640 C-5 toilet seat and a $435 hammer purchase during the Reagan administration? Government contract negotiators have never been known for thier economic expertise.
You can choose to take an active participation in this ludicrous situation by contacting the UWC Forest main office in South Jordan and your Federal Congressional lackeys and voice your opinion, or you can continue to urinate & moan about it on social media. I’ve already told the UWC that I am less than pleased with the current fee system and plan to write Rep Moore and Sen Romney (gag) and Lee about my feelings on this issue.
I may have absolutely no impact on the issue, but I will have done what I can to try to change it. What say you? Are you willing to at least try?
The contact at the UWC in South Jordan is Renee Flanagan (RHWL Staff Officer) at 801‐999‐2157. If you get her voice mail, leave a request for her to call you back and she will.
Thanks for the information Bob. I have called and left messages with the forest service in both Heber and the South Jordan offices. However, as I'm still working full time it's pretty darn difficult to get calls done during their hours. Really do appreciate your efforts to get some additional info.
I think it's criminal that they are trying to just gouge campers for an additional fee to launch a boat when they don't for day use. The fish cleaning station at the Soldier creek side has had 2/3 of it boarded up for 3 years now and they refuse to replace the grinders. The courtesy docks are all taped off with crime scene tape and were left high and dry as the lake level dropped.
Regarding your information that there is a budgetary limit for repairs/upgrades it's even more onerous than that as the Forest Service pays for all repairs, not the contracted vendor and therefore every repair has to be approved by the forest service. Just another example of how this contract is so upside down. the vendor is getting a basically guaranteed profit margin with no capital risk.
(06-16-2021, 12:47 PM)fishskibum Wrote: [ -> ] (06-16-2021, 12:42 AM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]The UWC Forest employee who oversees the contract called me back this afternoon and we had a very pleasant exchange of information. The UWC Forest contract involves approximately 135 campgrounds and day use areas within UWC. The full contract is available through FOIA, but is not available through normal Internet search engines. I don’t have the time or desire to request it through the FOIA channels. But if you want to pursue that, please do.
The rate (fee) system is all spelled out in that document. And according to the UWC Employee I talked to, the additional launch fee being charged campers has been on the books since 2018. The contract also sets cost limits that the contractor can spend on maintenance or replacement/repair of equipment or facilities. The limits are set very low which is why you will not see any major infrastructure upgrades from the contractor.
This next paragraph is just my opinion based on my own contract negotiation experience as a DoD civil servant. The double speak for this contract says the contractor can make as much money as they can squeeze out of the customer. The terms of the contract were negotiated between the contractor and the USDA/USFS. Anybody here remember the $640 C-5 toilet seat and a $435 hammer purchase during the Reagan administration? Government contract negotiators have never been known for thier economic expertise.
You can choose to take an active participation in this ludicrous situation by contacting the UWC Forest main office in South Jordan and your Federal Congressional lackeys and voice your opinion, or you can continue to urinate & moan about it on social media. I’ve already told the UWC that I am less than pleased with the current fee system and plan to write Rep Moore and Sen Romney (gag) and Lee about my feelings on this issue.
I may have absolutely no impact on the issue, but I will have done what I can to try to change it. What say you? Are you willing to at least try?
The contact at the UWC in South Jordan is Renee Flanagan (RHWL Staff Officer) at 801‐999‐2157. If you get her voice mail, leave a request for her to call you back and she will.
These comments were moderated above - man this sucks - see them for reference
It's actually much more about maintaining our freedoms, access to our public lands. Our tax dollars paid for all the infrastructure to be built. Why should it then be given to a private company that invested nothing to make profit. Many of us actually believe in our freedoms enough enough to risk shedding blood for them. I'd call that a 1st world problem as well.
Mod note - we appreciate anyone who served
its 106 and theyre down at rio grand loading homeless peoples source of shade and belongings into dumpsters
but yeah your cost per kokanee limit and freedumbs to use a recreational boat launch as you see fit
sure pale in comparison to their issuies and the drought
i sent a link to the thread to my congressional delegates
dont shed too much blood on this particular 1st world freedom problem
or let people know they make you gag fore ya ask em for sumthins
would be my advice
Mod note - The homeless, the drought, inequality of race, ext ext. They are real issues and need real solutions. You are right to keep us grounded on real key issues of humanity. I appreciate that and need to work harder to help my world and my brothers, I owe that debit to humanity, but I have no idea what members do with thier time. There may be some real warriors on the forum who just opt to not brag about what they do on these matters and just use the forum to step away from it for a minute to wonder why it costs more than they think it should to launch. Poking them directly, is against the forum rules, but heck what really matters is do we know how hard our neighbor bleeds and why. I dont. So, I dont use the forum for that purpose.
(06-16-2021, 04:26 AM)BYUHunter Wrote: [ -> ]I will contact the UWC and voice my frustration as well. I pay for enough taxes, license fees, registration, insurance, equipment, etc. that it is one more straw on the camel's back to show up to Strawberry and have them try to double charge me for facilities where half the bathrooms are closed, and the docks are in shambles. As if they don't make enough money scalping tackle for 2x what it's worth, and charging $800 for a 1/2 day guided adventure dunking power bait.
I shared the story before, but literally being boxed by a Utah Recreation Company employee's truck last year so that he could check for my payment slip, while I was in the process of turning down into the boat ramp, really boiled me over. I'm pretty sure unlawful detainment isn't in the terms of their contract.
Just some clarification on this issue. Strawberry Bay Marina, owned by the Phillips family, is completely separate that Utah Recreation who manages the campgrounds, day use area, and launching. If a person is going to the Marina store, cafe, or slips then by law, Utah Recreation cannot charge you a fee. This issue was fought in court years ago and resulted in a permanent injunction against the lease holder. Back then, it was AL&L. They were charging people a day use fee for people to access the Marina and their services. The Marina put an end to it. None of the fees paid for the campground, day use, or boat launching is received by Strawberry Bay Marina.
(06-16-2021, 02:07 PM)fishskibum Wrote: [ -> ]its 106 and theyre down at rio grand loading homeless peoples source of shade and belongings into dumpsters
but yeah your cost per kokanee limit and freedumbs to use a recreational boat launch as you see fit
sure pale in comparison to their issuies and the drought
i sent a link to the thread to my congressional delegates
don't shed too much blood on this particular 1st world freedom problem
or let people know they make you gag fore ya ask em for sumthins
would be my advice
Sorry but I cant resist, you give excrement to others about their opinions on fees while
you openly admit you launch without paying a fee !!
Step up and pay like the rest do! You are using the resource and not paying your fair share !!
Mod note - fair point