First of all i want to give a huge shout out to the Utah and the Wyoming Fisheries biologists and a researcher at the University Of Wyoming for all their help and to Mr. John Holy for a amazing taxidermy job. Two summers ago we were lucky enough to catch the Utah record lake trout from flaming gorge. Later that summer we had a graduate student from the university of Wyoming who is doing research on lake trout from the lake contact us and ask us if he could have the head from the fish for his study. At that time we had the fish at the taxidermist so we had to tell him i would get it to him when i could. Fast forward one summer we got the fish back and the head and i got in touch with the student and arranged for the biologist there at the lake if he would pick it up from us when we came up to fish and get it to the university which he did. Recently we got those results back and they were really surprising almost shocking to us. After talking to the student i have learned a lot on the growth rates and age of the fish from flaming gorge i.e. they aren't as old as everyone thinks. (see pics below)
As you can see the fish was only 16 years old and you can see in its first 12 years it grew very rapidly and the studies he has done on many fish from the gorge that will continue due to the lake and the food source. Long story short is yes i agree some catch and release of trophy fish (if done correctly) is good but no i don't think harvesting fish across all size ranges is hurting the lake and in fact he agreed we need to harvest not just the little ones but a sustainable amount of all lake trout. The pic below is the otolith out of the fish and they aged it twice to verify its age. Its amazing to me that just in the years i have been fishing at the gorge we have had the potential to grow almost three generations of lake trout to over 50 lbs.
That's Amazing !! Talking to him just like any species there will be the ones that are big and little or long or short or have big horns or little horns or whatever but over all the lake trout in flaming gorge are growing much faster than people think and it wont ruin the lake if a few bigger fish are harvested for someone to enjoy on the wall.
i posted this with some reservation due to all the negativity we received from killing this fish but i think the fisherman need to see the research data and understand what is happening to the lake we all love to fish on. If we don't start getting some of these fish out of the lake it will impact it in a very negative way They will literally eat them selves out of house and home
just thought i would share the info
![[Image: fish-age-2.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/3WT9ZPpb/fish-age-2.png)
That is very fascinating. Definitely younger than I would think. So interesting that the lake trout growth rate is so dependant on their forage availability. Thanks for sharing.
(01-07-2022, 08:43 PM)onepointseven Wrote: [ -> ]First of all i want to give a huge shout out to the Utah and the Wyoming Fisheries biologists and a researcher at the University Of Wyoming for all their help and to Mr. John Holy for a amazing taxidermy job. Two summers ago we were lucky enough to catch the Utah record lake trout from flaming gorge. Later that summer we had a graduate student from the university of Wyoming who is doing research on lake trout from the lake contact us and ask us if he could have the head from the fish for his study. At that time we had the fish at the taxidermist so we had to tell him i would get it to him when i could. Fast forward one summer we got the fish back and the head and i got in touch with the student and arranged for the biologist there at the lake if he would pick it up from us when we came up to fish and get it to the university which he did. Recently we got those results back and they were really surprising almost shocking to us. After talking to the student i have learned a lot on the growth rates and age of the fish from flaming gorge i.e. they aren't as old as everyone thinks. (see pics below)
As you can see the fish was only 16 years old and you can see in its first 12 years it grew very rapidly and the studies he has done on many fish from the gorge that will continue due to the lake and the food source. Long story short is yes i agree some catch and release of trophy fish (if done correctly) is good but no i don't think harvesting fish across all size ranges is hurting the lake and in fact he agreed we need to harvest not just the little ones but a sustainable amount of all lake trout. The pic below is the otolith out of the fish and they aged it twice to verify its age. Its amazing to me that just in the years i have been fishing at the gorge we have had the potential to grow almost three generations of lake trout to over 50 lbs.
That's Amazing !! Talking to him just like any species there will be the ones that are big and little or long or short or have big horns or little horns or whatever but over all the lake trout in flaming gorge are growing much faster than people think and it wont ruin the lake if a few bigger fish are harvested for someone to enjoy on the wall.
i posted this with some reservation due to all the negativity we received from killing this fish but i think the fisherman need to see the research data and understand what is happening to the lake we all love to fish on. If we don't start getting some of these fish out of the lake it will impact it in a very negative way They will literally eat them selves out of house and home
just thought i would share the info
That's interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing the information.
It's almost like determining the age of a tree. 
I don't fish for big Lakers a lot any more been fishing more for (Sturgeon which I like better)
but the last two years it has been hard catching any over 25 lbs.
That's really cool. Thanks for sharing.
And it's no one's business what we do and how many fish we keep as long as we are within the law. Fish on.
onepointseven - I sent you a PM. 
But.......but.......I thought tarponjim said it was 50+ years old?
(01-10-2022, 06:06 AM)BertDawg Wrote: [ -> ]But.......but.......I thought tarponjim said it was 50+ years old?
I think there was a study many year ago about Lake trout in lakes in Canada or the Great lakes that were were dated as being that old but who's to say they can't live to be that old but they get bigger faster than was thought, then live their lives as big lake trout from 16 or so year to 50 years. If this fish was 50 lbs at 16 years old, it makes me wonder if they can get that size even quicker than 16 years, maybe they can do it at 10 years. Since this is a fairly young study, it will likely that many more years of the study and many more fish to figure it out.
Onepointseven- can you share with us a pic of the mounted fish?
Once again -- and we've been saying this for years -- big fish are the result of FAST GROWTH, not old age.
Fish are "indeterminate" growers, unlike mammals which are "determinate" growers.
While all of you are excited about this study, go back and read some of the past studies. Things haven't changed much. Attached is a study of lake trout at Fish Lake from 1989 - 2002. Good stuff.
This is great, thanks for posting. Congrats on the fish!!
(01-10-2022, 03:02 PM)PBH Wrote: [ -> ]Once again -- and we've been saying this for years -- big fish are the result of FAST GROWTH, not old age.
Fish are "indeterminate" growers, unlike mammals which are "determinate" growers.
While all of you are excited about this study, go back and read some of the past studies. Things haven't changed much. Attached is a study of lake trout at Fish Lake from 1989 - 2002. Good stuff.
I found the following of particular interest:
"The consumption of rainbow trout by lake trout is particularly troubling. Madsen found that by volume rainbow trout comprised 67 % of the lake trout diet. In Fish Lake there are an estimated 1,100 (499-2,519) lake trout > 20 inches, each consuming somewhere between 1% and 4% percent of their body weight per day (Eby et al. 1995 and Rottiers 1993). At these rates, it requires 8,000 to 24,000 pounds of forage per year to maintain the lake trout population. The UDWR currently stocks approximately 29,000 pounds of rainbow trout annually. To reduce the impact of lake trout predation on rainbow trout, the mean size of stocked rainbow trout was increased from 5 to 10 inches."
It is apparent that rainbow planting has been a feeding program for the lake trout. Switching to planting larger rainbows means more rainbows survive, but the lake trout then struggle to find something to eat. I sure wish the bucket biologists would not have planted yellow perch in Fish Lake. This introduction has definitely been devastating to the fishery.
The thing about lake trout and Fish Lake is that lake trout very rarely use yellow perch as a forage. A big reason the DWR returned to kokanee in Fish Lake was to try and reduce the cost of feeding lake trout with rainbow trout and use a more self-sustaining population of kokanee as forage.
We have been saying for years that big fish are a result of fast growth and not old age...the interesting thing about Fish Lake is that you can have a 20-year old lake trout that is 25 inches or or a 20-year old lake trout that is 35 inches. Diet becomes the difference.
(01-10-2022, 06:11 PM)wormandbobber Wrote: [ -> ]The thing about lake trout and Fish Lake is that lake trout very rarely use yellow perch as a forage. A big reason the DWR returned to kokanee in Fish Lake was to try and reduce the cost of feeding lake trout with rainbow trout and use a more self-sustaining population of kokanee as forage.
We have been saying for years that big fish are a result of fast growth and not old age...the interesting thing about Fish Lake is that you can have a 20-year old lake trout that is 25 inches or or a 20-year old lake trout that is 35 inches. Diet becomes the difference.
I would suggest anyone interested in fisheries management and especially fish growth read this (Pages 3-5 are the key pages in relation to this thread, but the whole thing is very informative):
(01-10-2022, 06:11 PM)wormandbobber Wrote: [ -> ]I would suggest anyone interested in fisheries management and especially fish growth read this (Pages 3-5 are the key pages in relation to this thread, but the whole thing is very informative):
Good read.
(01-07-2022, 08:43 PM)onepointseven Wrote: [ -> ]As you can see the fish was only 16 years old and you can see in its first 12 years it grew very rapidly...
...over all the lake trout in flaming gorge are growing much faster than people think and it wont ruin the lake if a few bigger fish are harvested for someone to enjoy on the wall.
i posted this with some reservation due to all the negativity we received from killing this fish but i think the fisherman need to see the research data and understand what is happening to the lake we all love to fish on.
Onepointseven -- I appreciate you posting this info. If readers of this forum take the time to look at the otolith time line, they would be very surprised. But more importantly than the surprise is the understanding that this fish's growth WAS NOT AN EXCEPTION, but rather the norm for big fish. They grow FAST!
The time line can be broken down easily:
years 1 - 4 = Fast growth. The fish made it to about 20 - 24".
years 4 - 7 = slow growth. The fish didn't grow very much. The fish had not converted to a strictly piscivorous diet.
years 7 - 12 = Fast growth. The fish converted to a strictly piscivorous diet and exploded!! It grew from ~24" to ~40" and 50lbs in 5 years!! (this is where we want our fish! We want them all in the range of maximum growth where the growth rate is the fastest!)
years 12 - 16 = slow growth.
Again -- thank you Onepointseven for submitting this post. Hopefully a few people will read it, understand it, and learn something from it.
Onepointseven,
Just caught this post. Nice to see you had the age info back. Interesting.
Thanks again for putting your trust in me to mount your trophy lake trout.
For the other readers,
I was commissioned to mount the new state record lake trout and also mold it for future replicas to be made.
It was an extensive project but turned out very well.
People have asked for a photo. I’ll try and post the skin mount and also the replica.
Thanks again, John
![[Image: 688-E321-A-2-AEB-4-EC1-ACB3-CF06-A3-CB1839.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/v4KZNVT8/688-E321-A-2-AEB-4-EC1-ACB3-CF06-A3-CB1839.jpg)
![[Image: C51-E8-B7-E-BF19-41-E6-BAB2-8-A6-C3626-FB44.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/MvdT148Q/C51-E8-B7-E-BF19-41-E6-BAB2-8-A6-C3626-FB44.jpg)
![[Image: FCF3-CA28-1-A71-45-E3-9-B27-534-A6-E3-CAA96.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/qtCvVv6s/FCF3-CA28-1-A71-45-E3-9-B27-534-A6-E3-CAA96.jpg)
(01-17-2022, 06:49 PM)John Holley’s Taxidermy Wrote: [ -> ]Onepointseven,
Just caught this post. Nice to see you had the age info back. Interesting.
Thanks again for putting your trust in me to mount your trophy lake trout.
For the other readers,
I was commissioned to mount the new state record lake trout and also mold it for future replicas to be made.
It was an extensive project but turned out very well.
People have asked for a photo. I’ll try and post the skin mount and also the replica.
Thanks again, John
Wow, great job, really hard to tell the difference, that was one fat fish. Thanks for sharing the pic with us John.
(01-17-2022, 07:03 PM)kentofnsl Wrote: [ -> ] (01-17-2022, 06:49 PM)John Holley’s Taxidermy Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you. Appreciate your comment.
I actually get asked by people to do their skinmount and also make a replica for their office or cabin etc.
I finish both pieces in exactly the same process and when done I can’t even tell
which is which without tapping on the surface to hear the fiberglass sound.
John
You do fine work. You should have not labeled the pictures and let folks guess which mounts were which.
Interesting thread. Flaming Gorge has always been an interesting fishery. Go back to the 60's and 70's when it was kicking out monster Browns AND Lakers. Unfortunately at that time, Utah DWR was not as forward seeing as it is today. The tactics for these big fish has changed dramatically over the last few decades. Big Browns were caught mainly by long line trolling big Rapala's, while the lakers were targeted with Steel line pulling T55 Flatfish on the bottom. The picture of the little boy holding the huge laker on the Flaming Gorge map was my next door neighbor in Provo. He was working construction in the Basin back then and he would go to the Gorge every weekend to fish. That fish was over 40lbs, one of many between 20 &40 that he caught. You don't hear much about the Browns anymore, my guess is they are still there and the main tactic for Lakers is to vertical jig with big tubes or troll with downriggers. My hat is off to the young folks who are doing the research today to improve the fishery for tomorrow. Keep up the good work.