Fishing Forum

TLDR; Talk about my experience on some of our lakes, Pineview, Jordanelle, Rock Port, etc, fish populations, size of fish.  Specifically LMB and SMB.

This will be a complete word vomit on my thoughts of Norther UT lake conidiations pertaining to LMB and SMB, so please bear with me haha.
New to the forum, not new to Bass fishing in UT, been doing this religiously since 2008 here and have, (no joke, besides ice fishing), only targeted bass for the last 14 years.  I wanna focus on Pineview and Jordanelle, but will mention Rock Port, East Canyon, and some others.

Pineview: Circa 08/09 when I started, Pineview was always a go to, the SMB population was strong, LMB population was strong, routinely caught 8+ inch Perch; Gills and Crappie were super abundant, so we knew what the Bass were eating.  As each year came and passed it seemed the Perch and especially the Gill population crashed pretty hard, we always found plenty of crappie in flooded trees or the vegetation that grows to the surface in the back of the middle inlet arm.  Used to catch eating size worthy perch on bass gear while going after smallmouth almost as often as I'd catch smallmouth, but that has steadily died, now I hardly see perch in pineview, although I don't target them, just don't catch any while bass fishing.  Another species that seemed to die off for a little bit there was largemouth, for a few years in a row I never saw one come out of there, idk if it was due to a couple bad spawn years or what, but now it seems they've returned somewhat? which is weird cause the last few years we've had really bad water levels which would leave LMB spawning areas high and dry.  Smallmouth have always been super consistent in the size department, gross numbers I've caught over the years have gone down but the quality never has.  My PB SMB was out of pineview at 5 even, then in 2021 I fished a tournament and pulled 2 3's and a 4.6, big smallmouth for the day was 4.8.  The kicker though, was on that tournament day, the big fish was a 6.7 largemouth someone caught off one of the points in the middle inlet arm, tournament was in May, so hopefully that fish went on to have a successful spawn, so Pineview can grow the quality, just quantity has dropped, at least for me in the recent years, and obviously the low water years aren't helping anything.  Anyone else's thoughts?

Jordanelle: This is the big one, huge smallmouth used to be pulled out of Jordanelle all the time.  From what I've seen and heard other people talk about, the Chub population has slowly declined and so has the Perch, which has resulted in the stunted smallmouth population.  I haven't caught a smallmouth from there bigger than 15 or 16 inches in a good 5 years or more, it seems the days of the 7 pounders are over?  My question, has anyone seen any positive impact on the smallmouth population after the introduction of Koke's, Splake, Wiper and the Tigers?  I personally have not, been there every year since 2019 and haven't caught a smallmouth bigger than 14 once.  Went to Jordanelle today actually 06/04, water temp 55-60, took the tube today instead of the boat, put in at the Rockcliffs, was probably a mistake for this time of year.  Water was pretty cold and very brown due to the river/run off, caught 2, both 8 inches.  Maybe would have done better over by Ross Creek?  

Deer Creek: Never have done good here for bass, although I think that's a me problem and not putting the time in on the lake, I know there are big ones in here.  Fished a tournament last year and some of the guys were pulling out high 4lb largemouth.  But from my understanding is DC had a perch crash as well?

Mantua: Don't go here often, but some friends I have who fish tournaments more regularly pull 4s and 5s out all the time, seems to be in good shape.  Made a point to go this year, have gone twice already, were a tad early to catch the spawn, caught tons but they were all 12-14 inch males, seems the females hadn't moved up yet, this was at the beginning of May.

Pelican: Haven't been since the treatment to get rid of Carp, hopefully some of the largemouth that got planted from the Arkansas hatcheries can come to rival Mantua and Pineview size, good on the DWR for doing something for a warm water fishery.  Anyone have good updates on Pelican?

Rock Port/East: Don't go here as often as Pineview and Jordanelle, but always did really good on both.  Caught quantity and quality, although haven't been back for a few years.  Regularly pulled 3s out of both, fished a tournament a while ago, big fish on East Canyon was in the 4s.

Forgive me if I'm ignorant here, but do our reservoirs lack bait fish other than Panfish/Sunfish and Crawfish?  Like Shiners, Flat head minnows, etc?  Has the DWR thought of planting these in some of our reservoirs like Jordanelle to help bolster fish populations and prevent another growth stunt like what happened to the SMB?  I'm pretty ignorant on the happenings of the DWR, besides the odd stocking of Tiger Muskie in lakes like Jordanelle and recently Pelican to help curb carp there, does the DWR do much here to help the warm water species in our lakes, or have they all pretty much been left to their own devices?  Do the mass stocking of rainbows in a bunch of our reservoirs do anything for the bass populations?

Thanks for reading my rambling, please post any thoughts, Cheers!

Trout and kokes are still the runaway #1 focus of Utah's DWR. There is more attention on warm-water species in the past few years, thankfully. But it's still a tiny fraction of the money and time spent on trout.

If you find the time, perhaps a summary of a few other lakes with good fish, such as Hyrum and Starvation. please. TubeDude covers Utah Lake and Willard quite well. Our southern lakes seem to be thriving for bass, Sand Hollow in particular, but if you have thoughts on some others, please enlighten us.

(06-05-2022, 04:48 AM)mylesG Wrote: [ -> ]TLDR; Talk about my experience on some of our lakes, Pineview, Jordanelle, Rock Port, etc, fish populations, size of fish.  Specifically LMB and SMB.

Thanks for reading my rambling, please post any thoughts, Cheers!

If it isn't sterile or lacks pink meat Utah has no interest!

It isn't only the DWR. When a poster here says "I caught four fish" you know beyond doubt he meant rainbows. Planted ones. Because that's what "fish" means to most Utahns. And nothing else.

I'll toss in a few comments here.  I have not been a serious bass chaser in Utah for the past 15 years or so, but in times past I put in some serious effort on both largies and smallies.  I have had the good fortune to have fished all over the US during my 60 years plus fishing career.  That includes some prime bassin' waters in California, Arizona, Texas, Louisiana and Florida. 

My most active bass fishing in Utah was during the years of '77 through '84...after living in California and before living in Arizona.  That was BS...before smallies.  Got lots of really nice largies from Utah Lake, Deer Creek, Pineview, Mantua and Pelican.  Jordanelle did not exist then.  And it was not uncommon to have 20 - 30 fish days on most of the reservoirs that held largemouths. 

I moved back to Utah and retired in 2004.  Found smallmouths in my former fave largie ponds...like Pineview and Deer Creek.  Also found smallies in new-to-me lake Jordanelle.  And they were honkers...until after the perch crash in about 2007 and the following demise of the  chub population.  Smallies are their own worst enemies.  They eat up all their available food and then stunt.  And what's worse is that they outcompete the largies for both habitat and food wherever they coexist. 

One of the worst abuses of smallies...upon the other species...is that their young wipe out a lot of the young of other species before they have a chance to grow.  As a float tuber, I have observed small "wolf packs" of smallies at Deer Creek herding schools of inch-long baby perch into small pockets along the bank and then taking turns rushing in to glut until the entire school of new hatchlings was decimated.  Deer Creek used to be full of perch.  Now it is rare to catch more than a few even on the most successful perch searches.  Walleyes get a lot of the blame, but smallies wipe out exponentially more in the small fry stage than walleyes ever eat after they get bigger.

There are still largies in Deer Creek and Pineview...and they reach some respectable sizes.  But you can no longer count on catching double digits in an evening of throwing spinnerbaits and buzzbaits post spawn.  And bass of any species larger than 12 inches are not very common any more.  A large part of that is attributable to the great increase of the angling population in general...and the growing contingent of "subsistence" fishermen (happy harvesters) who fish with bait and keep everything that bites.   There are simply not enough fish to keep everybody happy...and when all the fish being caught go home with the anglers it further depletes the population.

Utah is a desert state and most of our bass ponds are reservoirs built to provide water for downstream water users...residential or agricultural.  Most of them have "conservation pool" levels beyond which the water users cannot further drain the lakes.  But the drastic changes in water levels eliminate the ability of these lakes to establish aquatic vegetation and to provide more food and cover for young fish of all species.  Combine that with an almost complete lack of natural food resources...with the exception of a dwindling population of crawdads in most lakes...and we are lucky to have what we have. 

Most of the most noteworthy bass waters around the country are either natural lakes or at least maintain fairly constant water levels.  They establish large areas of aquatic vegetation and usually have multiple forage species...like shiners, suckers, threadfin shad, dace, sculpins, etc.  When water levels are stable there is a much better spawning situation each year.  And when there is abundant underwater cover, the young survive better.  And , of course the fish survive and grow much better if there are lots of groceries for them.

In my early years in California I actually fished bass tournaments.  Never won a lot of money but there wasn't the big money in tournaments then that there are today.  But I learned a lot about bassin' and fondly miss some of my more memorable bass ponds.  Most of the bass I catch these days are caught "on accident"...while pursuing other species.   Still love 'em though.

(06-05-2022, 03:06 PM)Fowl-Hook Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-05-2022, 04:48 AM)mylesG Wrote: [ -> ]TLDR; Talk about my experience on some of our lakes, Pineview, Jordanelle, Rock Port, etc, fish populations, size of fish.  Specifically LMB and SMB.

Thanks for reading my rambling, please post any thoughts, Cheers!

If it isn't sterile or lacks pink meat Utah has no interest!

Unfortunately.  Hopefully with the treatment of Pelican and the stocking of Arkansas bass and the added warm water species to Jordanelle they will put more focus in.  Shame that the vast stocking of Rainbows aren't doing more for the SMB population, imo adding some type of baitfish into our reservoirs would benefit all species, not just Bass, and Utah has native species of bait fish so we wouldn't be adding a foreign species to our lakes.  There's probably some biology reason they haven't.  Still grateful places like Pineview are still producing quality if quantity has dropped off.

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(06-05-2022, 11:58 AM)RockyRaab2 Wrote: [ -> ]Trout and kokes are still the runaway #1 focus of Utah's DWR. There is more attention on warm-water species in the past few years, thankfully. But it's still a tiny fraction of the money and time spent on trout.

If you find the time, perhaps a summary of a few other lakes with good fish, such as Hyrum and Starvation. please. TubeDude covers Utah Lake and Willard quite well. Our southern lakes seem to be thriving for bass, Sand Hollow in particular, but if you have thoughts on some others, please enlighten us.

Yea can do!  I know a lot of our Bass lakes fairly well, fished youth/high school tournaments in the past and now dabble in some of the adult clubs our state has.  Making a trip to starvation this next week and from looking at water conidiations online looks like we're gonna catch it right in the middle of the spawn, so hopefully will see some good ones.  All thought I don't make it out to starvation more than once or twice a year, it has always been pretty consistent with numbers and have also pulled some good ones out of there.  Ik starvation had a relatively good Chub population, but in the recent years haven't accidently caught any so hopefully it isn't dying like they did in Jordanelle.

(06-05-2022, 07:12 PM)mylesG Wrote: [ -> ][quote pid="1134229" dateline="1654441611"]
Ik starvation had a relatively good Chub population, but in the recent years haven't accidently caught any so hopefully it isn't dying like they did in Jordanelle.

[/quote]
There are few to no chubs left in Starvy.  The smallies and wallies snarfed up all the young as fast as they hatched out...until all that was left were a few spawning "chubosaurs".  The last ones we caught (about 2008) while fishing perch or walleye were big 15 to 16 inch grotesque fish with tumors and obesity.

 

(06-05-2022, 08:19 PM)TubeDude Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-05-2022, 07:12 PM)mylesG Wrote: [ -> ][quote pid="1134229" dateline="1654441611"]
Ik starvation had a relatively good Chub population, but in the recent years haven't accidently caught any so hopefully it isn't dying like they did in Jordanelle.

There are few to no chubs left in Starvy.  The smallies and wallies snarfed up all the young as fast as they hatched out...until all that was left were a few spawning "chubosaurs".  The last ones we caught (about 2008) while fishing perch or walleye were big 15 to 16 inch grotesque fish with tumors and obesity.

 




[/quote]
In my non biologist mind the best solution seems to introduce some kind of a bait fish and keep them stocked, as they would benefit all the other species as well as bass, but there must be a good reason they have not.  I get introducing Tigers into Jordanelle to help eat the stunted population, but without introducing a new food source nothing really will come of it.  Powell has Shad, but Shad wouldn't do well up north with the die off they go though when water hits the 40 range and lower.  Utah has other native bait fish, some shiners and flathead minnows, etc.  It's a shame the smallies can't sustain themselves on the planter rainbows, as the size would limit which smallmouth could actually eat them.  The TVA system of reservoirs all go through some drastic water changes, although not to the same degree our lakes seem to.  Heck even reintroduce chub, since many lakes have proven smallmouth can keep the population down, so they wouldn't have to worry about an explosive population like in Strawberry.  Or just keep a healthy population of crawdads in our lakes, borrow some from strawberry, the trout dont seem to eat them like SMB do.

(06-05-2022, 09:03 PM)mylesG Wrote: [ -> ]In my non biologist mind the best solution seems to introduce some kind of a bait fish and keep them stocked, as they would benefit all the other species as well as bass, but there must be a good reason they have not.  I get introducing Tigers into Jordanelle to help eat the stunted population, but without introducing a new food source nothing really will come of it.  Powell has Shad, but Shad wouldn't do well up north with the die off they go though when water hits the 40 range and lower.  Utah has other native bait fish, some shiners and flathead minnows, etc.  It's a shame the smallies can't sustain themselves on the planter rainbows, as the size would limit which smallmouth could actually eat them.  The TVA system of reservoirs all go through some drastic water changes, although not to the same degree our lakes seem to.  Heck even reintroduce chub, since many lakes have proven smallmouth can keep the population down, so they wouldn't have to worry about an explosive population like in Strawberry.  Or just keep a healthy population of crawdads in our lakes, borrow some from strawberry, the trout dont seem to eat them like SMB do.

One of those things that is seemingly simple but in actuality ain't easy.  Others have made reference to the holy stature of the planted rainbows in Utah.  And the biology is that rainbows do not compete well with chubs...or almost any other species that eats the same meager diet of the hatchery pets.  Chubs outcompete rainbows over time...every time.  And the rainbows planted these days are far too large for all but the biggest and nastiest walleye or northern pike to consume.  Utah used to plant fingerling rainbows but it was observed that each planting was just a predator feeding program. 

Yes, Utah has some native species that are suitable forage for predators.  But our waters are either not fertile enough or the species not prolific enough for them to provide sufficient numbers on a consistent basis for predators to munch and grow on.  We definitely do not enjoy the same conditions of most of the fish factory lakes in other parts of the country.