I have had multiple conversations with several state employees concerning what I believe is the wrongful classification of a Snowdog as a snowmobile. What I have come to believe is that the decision to do so came from a fairly new Utah agency called the ‘Utah Division of Outdoor Registration.’ It was legislated in 2022 as part of the Utah Department of Natural Resources to combine the nation’s first Office of Outdoor Recreation with other state recreation management programs, including Utah’s Boating Program, Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Program, and recreation law enforcement officers.
I talked with Chase Pili (Off Highway Vehicle Manager) who is the person responsible for such decisions. He is firmly convinced that the Utah Code definition of a snowmobile [Utah Code 41-22-2 (22)] is appropriate for Snowdogs. He told me he based that decision on conversations with lawyers from his division and another division. All are convinced that the Snowdog is steered and supported by the track.
So, unless some one, or some organization, is willing to challenge that in a court of law or seek an injunction to halt the DMV from registering them until a state court rules on the matter, then we are going to have to register all Snowdogs (factory built or DIY) as snowmobiles. I will not be that someone. I have done what I could reasonably do by informing others and writing letters and having phone conversations with those in power. I was not successful in my quest. I may contact my State Representative again after the current legislative session has ended to see if changing the wording of the law would be appropriate. I have already registered my Snowdog as a snowmobile.
Take care, stay safe, & tight lines y’all. Hope to see you on the ice sometime.
Thanks for the input on this, I'm with you as long as you are not riding on top of it. It seems to be like a tracked snowblower and if I was to Rednecker build something to just pull me in a tub sled and gear through the snow it is kinda like a horse and buggy set up. I have a couple of diy snow dogs what was the cost to register your S-dog?
(02-18-2023, 06:50 AM)AJBwheat1222 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the input on this, I'm with you as long as you are not riding on top of it. It seems to be like a tracked snowblower and if I was to Rednecker build something to just pull me in a tub sled and gear through the snow it is kinda like a horse and buggy set up. I have a couple of diy snow dogs what was the cost to register your S-dog?
Cost was $69.50. That included the registration, user fee, and title app.
Another change to the Utah Code this year is that now, off-highway vehicles (OHVs ), excluding motorcycles and snowmobiles will require a license plate. So, even if they were to be registered as an all-terrain type III vehicle, there would be an additional cost of getting a license plate for it on top of the registration/title costs.
Finally got ours registered as well.
Crazy? Yes, it is .... we've tried to get it changed but seems like they're pretty set on getting some $ any way they can.
We had a little sales tax ($13 since we bought ours in Idaho), county and state taxes and registration fees so our total was $92.74.
Talking with our DMV, it won't be the off highway like the 4-wheeler which now has plate, it will be a decal like what goes on a snowmobile only they don't have any decals yet and it'll be mailed out once they have them. She suggested not putting anything on until you have the month and tag so you can also tell where they'd like it placed. So, we'll have it with us until then should anyone stops us and ask for it.
(02-19-2023, 12:11 AM)jjannie Wrote: [ -> ]Finally got ours registered as well.
Crazy? Yes, it is .... we've tried to get it changed but seems like they're pretty set on getting some $ any way they can.
We had a little sales tax ($13 since we bought ours in Idaho), county and state taxes and registration fees so our total was $92.74.
Talking with our DMV, it won't be the off highway like the 4-wheeler which now has plate, it will be a decal like what goes on a snowmobile only they don't have any decals yet and it'll be mailed out once they have them. She suggested not putting anything on until you have the month and tag so you can also tell where they'd like it placed. So, we'll have it with us until then should anyone stops us and ask for it.
So you are saying ATV's now need license plates?
Bob, you saved $10.50 not living in Utah County.
(02-19-2023, 01:54 AM)wiperhunter2 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 12:11 AM)jjannie Wrote: [ -> ]Finally got ours registered as well.
Crazy? Yes, it is .... we've tried to get it changed but seems like they're pretty set on getting some $ any way they can.
We had a little sales tax ($13 since we bought ours in Idaho), county and state taxes and registration fees so our total was $92.74.
Talking with our DMV, it won't be the off highway like the 4-wheeler which now has plate, it will be a decal like what goes on a snowmobile only they don't have any decals yet and it'll be mailed out once they have them. She suggested not putting anything on until you have the month and tag so you can also tell where they'd like it placed. So, we'll have it with us until then should anyone stops us and ask for it.
So you are saying ATV's now need license plates?
Yes, Curt, as of Jan 1, 2023, all off-highway vehicles (OHVs ), excluding motorcycles and snowmobiles will require a license plate. Go here: OHV Registration & Permits | Utah Division of Outdoor Recreation
AND, Beginning January 1, 2023, Utah will require all off-highway vehicle operators to complete the Utah Off-Highway Vehicle Education Course. Completion of this 'once-in-a-lifetime' course is required under Utah Code 41-22-31(1)(B) in order for you to operate an off-highway vehicle or street legal off-highway vehicle in Utah. Snowmobiles (Snowdogs) are exempt (do NOT have to complete). Go here to take the course: Utah Div Outdoor Recreation Site
(02-19-2023, 01:54 AM)wiperhunter2 Wrote: [ -> ]So you are saying ATV's now need license plates?
The next time you renew you atv registration you will receive a plate instead of the Stcker you used in the past. It's 4 x 7.
(02-17-2023, 07:54 PM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]I have had multiple conversations with several state employees concerning what I believe is the wrongful classification of a Snowdog as a snowmobile. What I have come to believe is that the decision to do so came from a fairly new Utah agency called the ‘Utah Division of Outdoor Registration.’ It was legislated in 2022 as part of the Utah Department of Natural Resources to combine the nation’s first Office of Outdoor Recreation with other state recreation management programs, including Utah’s Boating Program, Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Program, and recreation law enforcement officers.
I talked with Chase Pili (Off Highway Vehicle Manager) who is the person responsible for such decisions. He is firmly convinced that the Utah Code definition of a snowmobile [Utah Code 41-22-2 (22)] is appropriate for Snowdogs. He told me he based that decision on conversations with lawyers from his division and another division. All are convinced that the Snowdog is steered and supported by the track.
So, unless some one, or some organization, is willing to challenge that in a court of law or seek an injunction to halt the DMV from registering them until a state court rules on the matter, then we are going to have to register all Snowdogs (factory built or DIY) as snowmobiles. I will not be that someone. I have done what I could reasonably do by informing others and writing letters and having phone conversations with those in power. I was not successful in my quest. I may contact my State Representative again after the current legislative session has ended to see if changing the wording of the law would be appropriate. I have already registered my Snowdog as a snowmobile.
Take care, stay safe, & tight lines y’all. Hope to see you on the ice sometime.
Looks like no more free rides anymore, anyway they can get some more bucks.
I was on Rockport yesterday and watched several snow dogs in action and I would classify them as a tractor. The fact that they are "supported and steered by a track" is not relevant and does not change the fact that it is a tow implement that happens to use a track. A tracked skid steer loader is supported and steered by tracks but is not a snowmobile? Many other agricultural and construction equipment are also supported and steered with tracks but are not snowmobiles. As has been mentioned, if someone were to use their tracked snow blower to pull a sled out on to the ice they would have to register it based on this logic. If someone did sue and go to court the state would probably start requiring registrations on all tracked equipment because of their bogus definition. I suggest changing the state code to reword the definition of "snowmobile" to a more accurate description of what we all know a snowmobile really is. Talk to your local state representative.
(02-19-2023, 04:40 PM)Fowl-Hook Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 01:54 AM)wiperhunter2 Wrote: [ -> ]So you are saying ATV's now need license plates?
The next time you renew you atv registration you will receive a plate instead of the Stcker you used in the past. It's 4 x 7.
Guess that's why I had not heard about it, I renew my registration at the end of this month. I bet that plate instead of the sticker will make the renewal price go up.
(02-19-2023, 06:37 PM)FishfulThinkin Wrote: [ -> ]I was on Rockport yesterday and watched several snow dogs in action and I would classify them as a tractor. The fact that they are "supported and steered by a track" is not relevant and does not change the fact that it is a tow implement that happens to use a track. A tracked skid steer loader is supported and steered by tracks but is not a snowmobile? Many other agricultural and construction equipment are also supported and steered with tracks but are not snowmobiles. As has been mentioned, if someone were to use their tracked snow blower to pull a sled out on to the ice they would have to register it based on this logic. If someone did sue and go to court the state would probably start requiring registrations on all tracked equipment because of their bogus definition. I suggest changing the state code to reword the definition of "snowmobile" to a more accurate description of what we all know a snowmobile really is. Talk to your local state representative.
What about all the mountain bikes,e-bikes and all bikes for that matter they should all have to pay. Not just us boaters and hunters. This doesnt seem right.
(02-19-2023, 06:37 PM)FishfulThinkin Wrote: [ -> ]I was on Rockport yesterday and watched several snow dogs in action and I would classify them as a tractor. The fact that they are "supported and steered by a track" is not relevant and does not change the fact that it is a tow implement that happens to use a track. A tracked skid steer loader is supported and steered by tracks but is not a snowmobile? Many other agricultural and construction equipment are also supported and steered with tracks but are not snowmobiles. As has been mentioned, if someone were to use their tracked snow blower to pull a sled out on to the ice they would have to register it based on this logic. If someone did sue and go to court the state would probably start requiring registrations on all tracked equipment because of their bogus definition. I suggest changing the state code to reword the definition of "snowmobile" to a more accurate description of what we all know a snowmobile really is. Talk to your local state representative.
I have been talking to my state legislators and the Utah Division of Outdoor Recreation. As I'v been saying for several weeks now, Snowdogs exactly fit the state code definition of an all-terrain type III vehicle (IF you 100% agree it is NOT a snowmoble). But the OHV manager (Chase Pili) and that divisions attorney are not budging on it one bit. You know, do NOT confuse me with facts; my mind is made up! You and I agree 100% that we need to push our legislators HARD on re-wording the definition of a snowmobile. Snowdogs don't have any kind of steering mechanism built into their design, but Mr Pili and his departments lawyer don’t care. I’m still writing emails to the powers that be, but don’t expect any change until it is overturned in court or the Utah Code is modified.
Don’t expect any response from your legislators until after the current legislative session has ended. I certainly don’t, but I do keep them copied on all my emails to the OHV folks.
So. I guess my JD-10 dozer is actually a snowmobile. Because it is most definitely both supported and steered by tracks...
Dubob. Stop writing. The legislature is in session. Utah has the unique system where we can go to the capital and request out legislator come out in the hall to talk directly with us. And they do.
Go up there tomorrow, anyone who can and cares. Talk directly with your legislators about this NOW. While they can nip it in the bud so to speak. Let them make the legislative changes to direct mr Pili how it works in Utah. The legislature micromanages the departments.
(02-18-2023, 06:50 AM)AJBwheat1222 Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the input on this, I'm with you as long as you are not riding on top of it. It seems to be like a tracked snowblower and if I was to Rednecker build something to just pull me in a tub sled and gear through the snow it is kinda like a horse and buggy set up. I have a couple of diy snow dogs what was the cost to register your S-dog?
Also have a custom build. cost me $38 to get mine registered, the snowmobile was old enough I didnt need a title so just had to pay the normal registration fee and the age based fee.
Sounds like the old snowmobiles are going to be the cheapest way to get on the pond anymore... I just knew it was too good to be true when they didn't require registration, I knew they wouldn't let that cash cow go long before they taxed it... Sure seems like we have too much government taxing and taxing us.... Don't worry the e-bikes will get there licenses soon, they're getting popular enough the state will never let that cash cow go unmilked... Way to go Paul using the old sled, good reuse and way to save a few bucks... Later Jeff
“I fought the law, and the law won.”
Some of you may remember this discussion started back in February with regard to the new requirement to register ‘Snowdog’ type machines as of January 2023. I disagreed with registering them as ‘Snowmobiles’ instead of an ‘All-terrain type III vehicle.’ I researched the situation and made phone calls and sent emails to several State agencies asking them to classify ‘Snowdogs’ as ‘All-terrain Type III Vehicles. They wouldn’t budge. So, in March 2023, I submitted a 2-page ‘Private Letter Ruling’ request to the Utah Tax Commission who determines the classification from the way the Utah Code is written. I stated the facts as best I could along with my interpretation of what the Utah Code says about the facts.
I got their response today – August 18, 2023. They still insist that a ‘Snowdog’ machine meets the definition of a ‘Snowmobile’ as defined in Utah Code Ann. § 41-22-2. And that is far as I am willing to pursue the issue. I could appeal the decision, but don’t expect I could present anything further that would persuade them to change their minds. I registered mine as a snowmobile last February and got the decals sometime in May.
Last winter, the Utah Law Enforcement community was cutting most Snowdog owners some slack and only issuing a verbal warning to register the vehicle. I don’t think you will encounter the same attitude from them this coming ice season.
That’s it for now boys & girls. Hope to see some of you on the ice this coming season.
(08-19-2023, 08:52 PM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]“I fought the law, and the law won.”
Some of you may remember this discussion started back in February with regard to the new requirement to register ‘Snowdog’ type machines as of January 2023. I disagreed with registering them as ‘Snowmobiles’ instead of an ‘All-terrain type III vehicle.’ I researched the situation and made phone calls and sent emails to several State agencies asking them to classify ‘Snowdogs’ as ‘All-terrain Type III Vehicles. They wouldn’t budge. So, in March 2023, I submitted a 2-page ‘Private Letter Ruling’ request to the Utah Tax Commission who determines the classification from the way the Utah Code is written. I stated the facts as best I could along with my interpretation of what the Utah Code says about the facts.
I got their response today – August 18, 2023. They still insist that a ‘Snowdog’ machine meets the definition of a ‘Snowmobile’ as defined in Utah Code Ann. § 41-22-2. And that is far as I am willing to pursue the issue. I could appeal the decision, but don’t expect I could present anything further that would persuade them to change their minds. I registered mine as a snowmobile last February and got the decals sometime in May.
Last winter, the Utah Law Enforcement community was cutting most Snowdog owners some slack and only issuing a verbal warning to register the vehicle. I don’t think you will encounter the same attitude from them this coming ice season.
That’s it for now boys & girls. Hope to see some of you on the ice this coming season.
Thanks for doing all that paper work Bob, too bad it did not turn out more positive. Myself, I just bought me a new ice fishing hut, couldn't beat the $90 price tag.
![[Image: newhut.jpg]](https://i.postimg.cc/fkG8tBwH/newhut.jpg)
(08-19-2023, 08:52 PM)dubob Wrote: [ -> ]“I fought the law, and the law won.”
Some of you may remember this discussion started back in February with regard to the new requirement to register ‘Snowdog’ type machines as of January 2023. I disagreed with registering them as ‘Snowmobiles’ instead of an ‘All-terrain type III vehicle.’ I researched the situation and made phone calls and sent emails to several State agencies asking them to classify ‘Snowdogs’ as ‘All-terrain Type III Vehicles. They wouldn’t budge. So, in March 2023, I submitted a 2-page ‘Private Letter Ruling’ request to the Utah Tax Commission who determines the classification from the way the Utah Code is written. I stated the facts as best I could along with my interpretation of what the Utah Code says about the facts.
I got their response today – August 18, 2023. They still insist that a ‘Snowdog’ machine meets the definition of a ‘Snowmobile’ as defined in Utah Code Ann. § 41-22-2. And that is far as I am willing to pursue the issue. I could appeal the decision, but don’t expect I could present anything further that would persuade them to change their minds. I registered mine as a snowmobile last February and got the decals sometime in May.
Last winter, the Utah Law Enforcement community was cutting most Snowdog owners some slack and only issuing a verbal warning to register the vehicle. I don’t think you will encounter the same attitude from them this coming ice season.
That’s it for now boys & girls. Hope to see some of you on the ice this coming season.
Just when I was thinking I needed one.
You know, they just keep raising taxes, every year. This year it was more for AIS, last year state parks passes, year before sporting licenses, ATV fees, this sticker, that plate, insurance requirements...They are doing the same thing at home, taxes, schools, libraries AND highspeed internet, water, garbage all go up almost yearly the past 10 or so. Where are the Ex-Pats headed these days?