that would be a question for the central region biologists....but I don't think you'll get much support out of the DWR for Gizzard Shad...remeber, the Sevier river is a very long river, with many other reservoirs, and trout fisheries associated with it. I don't really know, but I don't see the Shad as a solution. I think that the perch are about as good as it is going to get for Yuba.
If you want, let me know and I will get you a name and # of a biologist in the central region that would be able to give you much more information than I can on Yuba...
just thought of one other thing that would prevent the gizzard shad in Yuba...Least and Leatherside chubs are both in the Sevier river drainage, and they are both on the State Sensitive Species list...DWR could probably get around this, but I still don't think they would go for Shad.
Water is the issue in Yuba. Keep water in Yuba, and you would get some aquatic vegetation to grow, which would provide habitat for the perch, which would most likely solve the problem....but, we don't have control of the water, so it most likely isnt' going to happen...too bad...
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[size 1]"The way it is right now, mother nature is taking care of this cycle herself. The walleye have decimated the chubs, the walleye population suffers, and declines to the point that the chubs can once again make a comeback, then the walleye will start to go back up again...that's the name of the game with walleye...boom, and bust. " [/size]
[size 1]Hey it sounds like Natural selection!!! I think Disney did a movie about that, had a song in it about the circle of life!!! hehehehe[/size]
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The UDWR would be thrilled to put gizzard shad into Yuba. They have been unable to get permission to do so. They have been told that the concern is that if gizzard shad are in waters on both sides of Utah Lake (already in Willard Bay) that this will increase the odds of a bucket biologist putting them into Utah Lake, and that would further endanger the June Sucker.
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Okay .. Raise your hand if you really care about the June Sucker. I used to until I found out what they really want to do with the lake.
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My hand is in the air.
Could you maybe let the rest of us know what "they" are going to do with the lake? And, maybe even who "they" are?
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Honestly I don't really care about the June Sucker either. It can be useful in certain situations to support it though, because efforts to restore habitat for the June Sucker also improve the habitat for sportfish. Also, if they want to remove as many carp as they can to minimize competition with the suckers, then all the better too. Also, I believe there is a minimum flow required in the Provo River (at least during certain months) to support the spawn and rearing of June Sucker fry, which also helps.
However, that being said, it would be fantastic if our hands weren't tied in the way that we manage the fishery at Utah Lake. I'd love to see the June Sucker go extinct and let us manage it freely once again. Maybe I'm just being ignorant but that's what I think. Although I wonder if there would be federal repercussions if we allowed a species to go extinct (i.e. funding cuts???)
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I wouldn't like to see the June Sucker, or any other species of fish go extinct. I like all fish and don't want to see any of them gone from the face of the earth. I feel it would be short sighted to let a native species permanently disappear for the temporary and short lived goal of sport fish management. June Sucker occur no where else in the world, but the sport fish in Utah Lake are in many waters in Utah and around the United States. Right now we have the best of both worlds anyway. There are both suckers and sport fish in Utah Lake. Just my dos centavos.
Good Fishing, Kayote
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Kayote that's true. You are very wise. I should've thought more before I spoke last time. I wouldn't want to try to eradicate the June Suckers, and I guess we should try to help them, but I wouldn't cry if they did die out.
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>>[size 1]...that's the name of the game with walleye...boom, and bust. [/size]
In Utah maybe, but not everywhere. The reason it's boom and bust here is because our waters usually have one predator species and one prey species. So it goes out of balance easily. If we could have more baitfish species, then the boom-bust cycles would be minimized.
As for your other comment on feeding the 'eyes in Starvation, the DWR's preferred management strategy is to let the lakes balance themselves. Feeding sportfish is a losing proposition.
[#800080][size 2]Put up or shut up big boy, what do they REALLY want to do with Utah Lake.[/size][/#800080]
[#800080][size 2] Which is hotter Afgahnland or last summer at CJ Strike?[/size][/#800080]
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Well .. I would have to say Afghanland + Dust Storms = too hot man!
The problem here is that the June Sucker haven't occurred in the lake for like .. ever. Everytime they stock the lake with new ones, they find them dead. The lake was different when they were abundant there. The carp in the lake destroyed it. They are to blame for the June's demise. They "the June Sucker Advocates" want to lift all limits of all fish on the lake. There plan is turning heads nationally. I am afraid that when and if this happens, they will see what a waste of time it's been. I do not want to see any species of fish go extinct. It's
that we have let it go this far. BUT ...
The facts remain.
1. Utah Lake is not the same body of water it used to be. Utah lake was once full of grass. The water was clear. Cutthroat roamed the shallows as well as the suckers.
2. The Lake is different now. It will never return to the old lake.
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ok i've been reading your posts on all this chub and DWR stuff.. you say that the Gizzard shad would hurt the sevier river? go to other lakes ? if so why would that be a bad thing? and if hurting the sevier river was in qustion why did the DWR alow the Pike to remain in redmond and spred to the sevier river? you don't think the pike would be more of a problm than shad? and how about the catfish they put in gunson res 20 years ago that moved down to the sevier river and up river to redmond and down river to yuba? there is not much of a problm with puting something for them fish to eat if they dont have a problm putting the fish in,in the first place.. all they have to eat is carp and carp is not a good folige fish!! only about 60% of the fish is used the other 40% is wast.. but put something in that they can get 85% to 90% out of then they will start to grow!! the perch in yuba did not crash because of the walleye in there.. the same thing happend 13 or 15 years ago at gunson res..and there was not a walleye in the lake.. all the perch for 5 or 6 years before the crash got big in the 1 1/2 to 2 lbs class.. then in a 3 year span they all diyed out along with the bass and sunfish..?? i bet most of you did not know that the DWR knew that it was going to happen to yuba the same way.. for the same reson too.. but the realy
thing is that gunson res has never been restored or even thought of after that..but what ever happend in gunson happend to yuba the very same way.. and will keep happening if they dont find a way to keep bait fish in the lakes for the fish to eat!!
from the fuzzyfisher----------------------fish on dudes
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I read an article a few years ago in the Tribune that said Utah Lake averaged something like 50 feet when the pioneers arrived in the valley. It stated that all the farming runoff in addition to normal runoff filled in the lake quite a bit. The article was about a represenative from Utah valley wanting to dredge the lake. He had a plan to create numerous small islands around the lake and other structure. This would of helped clear up the water and make the lake more usable. The plan was put on the shelf because of the JUNE SUCKER. Something to do with changing the habitat. Now it seems to me that the habitat was changed from what the fish lived in for centuries.
Maybe they should dredge up a peice of the lake and create a dike around this area. Then they could rotone this experimental area and plant June Suckers here and see if they do better in a deeper more historic habitat. Just a thought.
John
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Fuzzy -- I don't see the DWR introducing a NEW species (Shad) to Yuba, or the Sevier river system. I just don't see it happening. You are correct, the walleye didn't necessarily wipe out the perch. The BIGGEST problem with Yuab is WATER. Until you can get a constant water level you will not get a consistant fishery...it will continue to boom and bust, no matter how many different species of forage fish you introduce. Without the water, there is no vegetation, or other structure to provide any cover for forage fish. It's as simmple as that....no water is bad for all fish. Figure out how to keep water in Yuba, and you will not have problems with walleye running out of food.
I still think that with the Least chubs, and Leatherside chubs in the Sevier below Yuba you will have a hard time getting a NEW species (Shad) introduced into the system. Existing species aren't much of a problem, but introducing new species to a system gets tricky...
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yeah your right that a new speciis would be hard to get them to go for.. but how about add to one that is allready in the system? if they would plant some numbers in there they might get a good foot hold and takeoff real good in that lake.. there is already red side shiners in the system i get them all the time out of the sandpitch river so they have to be in the sevier river system.. why not try and ues what they allredy have just give it a good shot in the arm and see what happens?
fish on dudes
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fuzzy -- planting additional shiners is only a short term solution, that would actually just compound the problem. Again, an increase in forage will only produce an increase in walleye, which would cause a decrease in the forage, and an eventuall decrease in the walleye....see where I'm going? Somewhere you have to have a little balance...the DWR can't just continually raise fish to feed to other fish...it's just not logical. Nature needs to help out, and provide the forage fish. This is where water comes in. Again, the problem is water, not amount of forage. If you have water, you will get your forage. Without water, the forage disappear.
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yeah but there is not that meny walleye in there right now so if you gave it a good shot of folage fish right now they might get a good base to grow on and they would not have to plant any in there again.. and the same problm is still going to be there..same as utah lake and thats the carp!! allredy i'm sure that there is 95% the lake is carp and growing fast in yuba thay will just choke things out again.. all thing have to be balanced out but the carp are always going to tip the scales and over run the place again and again.. so there are other things other than just water that have to be worked out..
fish on dudes
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PBH is right on this one. The real problem with most fisheries in Utah that have problems boils down to two things:
-Lack of sufficient water (or sufficient clean water)
-Lack of good habitat
If we work on improving habitat and water conditions in our fisheries, we will see a comparable improvement in both native (endangered) species and sportfish species, as well as forage fish species. The entire ecosystem will be healthier and better off.
As for Utah Lake, it was ALWAYS a shallow lake. Yes, it used to be deeper than it is now, and used to have a lot more vegetation especially along the shoreline, but it wasn't 50 feet deep. It is shallow enough that it's not only the carp that churn up the mud. Anyone who has been out on Utah Lake on a nice day and suddenly a mediocre breeze kicks up knows that the lake can produce whitecaps within minutes. That's one reason why it was so dangerous for the ironman competition--it changes so fast. The lake is so shallow, and has such a large surface area that the winds can quickly and easily start to churn up the water and mud. Yes, the carp are also at fault because at least near the shoreline there would be a lot more vegetation to help hold down the mud and silt and keep the wind from picking it up.
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PBH and some others,
I'm totally LMAO. You ask what fisheries have gone downhill in the South? Come on. Here's one "Minersville." It was suppose to be managed for a trophy fishery. How long has the size resrictions been in place again? What do we have there now after several years? I'll tell you, a bunch of 12 inch fish. Whoopti do!!! Here's another one, Piute. Used to be great and it now sucks. Another one Kolob. Suppose to be again managed for a trophy fishery. I've fished it every year since size restrictions were put in place and have caught hundreds of average sized fish but no trophies yet. What a joke. There are too many fish in there in my opinion and it has stunted alot of the growth. Here are some more, Baker in which I've caught some nice browns in the past but now it sucks, Enterprise, and on and on. Yes we have had a drought, but I'm tired of the scapegoat excuses. All you hear for excuses are drought and habitat. Wouldn't it make sense to reduce limits and tag numbers during drought years? I say yes it would, but the "turn everyone loose theory" continues whether it's drought or not. Name one fishery in the southern end of the state that has been great because of great management? And don't say Lake Powell because it's in great shape not only from management, but because of the drought. And I repeat because of the drought. On a positive note I can't wait for the striper boils!! Bring them on!! Should be a great year for some quality fishing on Lake Powell.
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Fishbladder -- thanks! Finally!!
1. Minersville: had the dam repaired and was drained. No water. No water = no fish. Can't blame that one on mismanagement by the DWR. Give it a couple years, IF we get the water. It will be back.
2. Piute -- no conservation pool. Sevier River Water Users Association, with the help of mother nature, have been draining her dry. Once again, no water = no fish. No mismanagement problem there either, although chubs and rough fish are a problem in this lake. But, if we could keep the water levels high, you would see a huge improvement.
3. Kolob -- I can't figure out your gripe with Kolob! I'm sure that everyone else here on this board will agree that Kolob is in good shape.
4. Baker Res. -- Illegal introduction of Green sunfish have really hurt this fishery. ILLEGAL. Dumped in by some fisherman! Again, not the DWR's fault.
5. Enterprise (upper and lower). Both hurt by no water. No water = no fish. Also, ILLEGAL introduction of Green sunfish have done there fair share of hurt to this fishery.
Now, I'll name some great fisheries -- Boulder Mtn. Need I to name lakes? Fremont River, Sevier River, Fish Lake, UM Creek, Kolob, Quail Creek,...the list goes on...
The drought might be the scape goat, but you can't deny the fact that when a reservoir is drained bone dry (Minersville) you have to wonder if maybe the lack of water had something to do with the lack of fish....
Any other lakes, streams, etc. you can come up with?
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