The illegal planting of perch or any species is unconscionable! In yesteryear we didn't understand the effects of tampering with ecosystems. Today we understand a LITTLE. And everything we've learned is thousands and millions of years of nature only results in efffective ecosystems. I understand human encroachment requires human husbandry. But when we have the attitude that we can pick and choose what species we fish for. [
] I've heard of global warming but I've witnessed utah lakes be declaired warm water fisheries. What a bunch of _______! My father and grandfather used to catch nothing but trout out of pineview. There more trash in that lake than anywhere else. I tell you what. If I want to catch a stunted perch or crappie or bass or friken walley. I travel to there native water. Fishing is a sport. But as stuwards of our land we have a responsibility to promote long term and healthy prescriptions for our resourse. But instead fish and game have introduced a species and had to play catch up to sustain them. The great thing about native species is that they have allready worked out all the bugs. (no pun intended) They have there food base and spawning worked out. Its only when we destoy there habitat or introduce another species they have trouble. As for illegal planting of pearch ect. Im pissed to hear the DWR brag about stiffening the penalties for planting. Example One could dump 100 gallons of bleach into a lake killing 10s thousand of fish. It would be handled as an blatent enviromental crime with penalties in the 100s thousand of dollars and years in prison. In reality the bleach would diperse and evaporate having a relitivaly short term effect. Problem rouge species have very long lasting effect. Well thats my rant!
Native species only! Viva La Cutthroat
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times have changed and the conditions alot of utah waters have changed. The water quality in some lakes makes it hard to maintain cold water species. So if i better suits warmwater species lets at least get the most out of our waters. I would rather have a healthy warmwater fishery than a horrible trout fishery. I agree on the planting perch issue it is wrong to plant any fish unless it is your job and your area of study.
Peace
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The term "warm water" is erroneously used by many Utahans to depict any non-trout fishery. But in fact walleye, SMB, perch, pike, and even LMB are native to many climes colder than Utah.
That said, I agree that illegal stockings are the result of the ignorant. But I for one am glad for the many success stories of non-native species introduction.
We must also remember that although many species may have thrived for millennia, once man came along things changed. You can't teach a Razorback Sucker to adapt to life in a newly-formed Lake Powell when it evolved in the Colorado River.
Lets try water quality management! That the real objective to stewardship. Not great fishin. High quality water produce high quality fishing. Land use has not changed adversly in the last 50 years in Utah in regaurds to most all fisheries. If anything less agriculture and of coarse more residential ect. But thats all to the west of all fisheries except Utah lake and Willard. Lack of riprarian restoration and boating is the cause for siltation in places like pineview both of wich can be managed.
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True Gumbo on the "warm water" species. I know that they also thrive in some colder waters just trying to use a term more people would be familiar with. I definitely agree on the water quality management and illegal stocking issues but see nothing wrong with introducing fish that do well in these waters.
Peace
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great little rant dude!! but i ask this of the members of big fish??? how meny time have you been fishing one of these lakes that have had illegal (buckit planting's) and said i wish we did not have these 2 and 3 lbs smallmouth in here to catch.. or down at redmond and say i wish some butthead did not plant pike in here for me to catch!! or i wish somebody did not put the sunfish,and perch in pineview so now we have a world class mussky lake!! how meny of you went up to jordeal this winter and said man i wish we did not have this great place to fish for perch?? or for some of you that fish DC for walleye boy i bet you guy's are so pissed off about the walleyes being planted in there to huh?
dude on fish-------------------lol
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very true fuzzyfisher !!!!
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I too believe that the native species are important, but if we could only fish for native species and in native waters then we would have nothing but mountain lakes, ponds, rivers that run nearly dry in the summer, and Utah Lake to fish in. In addition, we'd only be able to catch chubs, suckers, whitefish, and a few cutthroat (the wimpiest fighter of all trout)
Man and his changes to the environment have changed the ecosystems forever. Reservoirs are not a natural thing. Smart management and a halt to illegal plantings are what is needed.
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Well if you want to go back in time you could chose the present versus the trout past of pineview. But what is Pineview but a man made lake. Truely there shouldn't be anything but a river there. but alas times change. Pineview inevitably was gonna get to warm of water for trout to survive well, because of the annual drawdowns, and the way it disperses over such a great area.
so if you want it all natural choose the river, but don't choose which man made creation is the right way based upon your preferences. Because by my preferences its perfect right now, but hey thats just my opinion.
Oh yea bucket biologists suck @#$!!!!!
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ALL I CAN SAY IS WHAT NATIVE FISH WAS EVER IN PINEVIEW, LET ALONE LAKES OR RESERVOIRS FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND TROUT WAS NOT FOUND IN MANY LAKES OR RIVERS WHEN THE PIONEERS FIRST CAME HERE
IN FACT THOSE CHUBS EVERYONE SEEMS TO HATE ARE REALLY THE NATIVE FISH IN MOST WATERS SO LETS REALLY TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF RAINBOWS BROWNS BROOKIES MACKS SPLAKE ALL THOSE SO CALLED COLD WATER FISH THAT BELONG HERE ???
THERE IS ONLY ONE NATIVE TROUT.
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I agree mon! Nobody like it when you mess with mother nature. I say all of those years of school and knowledge learned by the wildlife biologists' be thrown out the window. Blow up all the dams, do away with game management... let's get back to the time when things were different, pure, unspoiled and totally awesome.
-OR-
Accept growth and the human's natural ability to learn and try to make things different. Things are not perfect and they never will be. Let's just be happy with what we have TODAY and focus on what we can have in the future! Fish on mon![cool]
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Like trout ever did really good in Pineveiw! The would have a summer die off every year and they had those sore like the trout in echo and rockport get. Pineveiw is a lot better "WARM WATER" fishery than it was a trout pond.
And if we are going back to mother natures way. No dams = no water for lawns, farming, etc = a few billion less people on this earth! The enviroment can only handle so many hunter/gathers. I kind of like my nice comfy bed, in my nice heated/cooled house with running water, electricity etc.
John
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I agree. Pineview sucked as a trout lake. It's an awesome crappie lake, or at least it was before the tigers. We'll have to see what happens in the long range.
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fuzzy -- you left some other places out. Fish Lake has become a wonderful perch fishery. New Castle Res is a fantastic place to catch Golden Shiners. Baker Res and Pine Valley Res both have world class Green Sunfish populations, and both Enterprise Reservoir's are close behind. Mantua will soon be holding perch parties.
Yep, illegal introduction of fish have sure created some wonderfull places to fish!
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hey dude dont take it so hard.. some of what has happend to these lakes are not at all bad.. see i'm not like the some of the guy's on this bord that think that being politically correct is going to score me big points with all who are on here..i my self love catching pan fish!!and wish there was more of them around to catch!! i dont care much about the nasty june suckers or hump back chub or any of the other endangered bottom feeders.. there time is over there inviervent is not the same and so they go the way of dodo.. so
but that's the way it works.. time for the new world order of man and his evil way of changeing things to sute him.. the change was made long ago we can't take back all of the dams we have made and resavores that hold water that we humans we think we need so much..but the damage to those fish was done a long time ago and nothing we are going to do will help them.. so we can all cry and snivel about how we are going to miss these fish.. i'm not going to miss them something else will take there place in the scheme of things to come..there is allway something waiting to jump in and take over where one cant survive any more.. the way it's been for meny and meny years..
dude on fish
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[size 2]When it gets right down to brass tacks Zero waters in Utah (or anyplace for that matter) havent been effected by human hands in one form or another. The fisheries we have in Utah for the most part are designated trout fisheries simply due to the fact (as I was told) "this is a western state in witch trout fisheries are suppose to be in abundent and, the direactor of the DWR is a trout man".. I was told that statement over 20 years ago when I made a call to my local DWR asking why so many trout fisheries. What was as clear to me then as it is now is, human hands screw up natures handy work.. On the other side of the coin, its clear this state has the water conditions to sustain a great variety of fish speices, not simply trout.. Personally I havent had a lot of problems with perch or chub, but then again I dont offen targot them. What I realize is, if I want to catch a trophy Trout, Muskie, Bass, Walleye, or what have you, they need something in the water to feed on while I'm not around to toss power bait or night crawler's at them, not to mention those big pretty tube jig bodies I dropped through the ice this past winter..
The simple fact is, no two people agree completely on any given subject but it appears to me that most people here feel illegal planting (to suit ones own fishing wants as far a species) is greatly effecting our waters for the bad...... [/size]
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Maybe Introduced species are really great. I cant wait for the spring elephant hunt in hte Uintahs. But it wont be anywhere near as fun as the gazzale hunt up at Woodruff. But be careful of the pack of lions they had to plant to control there populations. ha ha
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Yet another point. Great perch fishing for 3 to 4 yrs until they over populate crash. Does not fit the definition of healthy fishry. 50 fish limits thats pathetic. Obviosly theirs no balance with most non native species. Instead of wasting millions of dollars on planting certain species. I would like to see once an example of serious rather than frugal improvement or restoration of watershed. Large scale not a weekend of detcated hunters planting grass on a half mile or river bank. This is needed but mearly cosmetic and a politcal stunt to appear youre dollars are at work. The fisherman who visit this site must realize what a huge lobby we are. Wildlife has major influince. Fisherman in general make up a small percent of the population. As active and concerned fisheman we are even more exclusive club. The DWR is very resceptive to input from us. If we demand pristine conditions wildlife will be the vehicle that gets us there. Dont think because things have changed means they cant change back. The DWR is like any other government office. Theres no acountability. I fish 4 to 5 days week. Its not like I hide way out in the middle of nowhere. Ive been checked by the fishngame twice in my life. I know you all have simular experiances. Dont settle and they wont settle.
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ok dude you lost me.. what is it your even talking about? are you saying you just want trout in this state? or you dont want any fish what? you want people to levee the fishers alone but help them? sorry can see where your going with this at all..
dude on fish
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I want long term healthy fisheries. That starts with habitat quality. Manage the habitat. Instead we have the mentality that if conditions change then lets throw another species in there and see if that will work. Every watershed has native species. I think we should keep to mother natures plan as close as possible. Brown trout do awsome in nothern utah "warm water" as long as there not a prey or compitition with other species. No a brown trout is not native but its closer to a white fish or cut than is a tiger musky or bass. When you ice fish at these waters you will catch perch and trout useing the exact same technique. That would suggest there in compitition for the same food. 50 perch limit! 4 trout! Is that ok with you. Does that make any sense. Fishery management shouldnt be like making stew! A little this and a little that. Oh thats good I'll ad some of that! You know! What this could really use is some of that!
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