Hi all,
I read with interest the posts several weeks back about the supposed "blue" cats in Utah Lake. I too have netted Cats that look different than Channels, and believed them to be Blue Cats. I have heard from game wardens and park personnel alike that there ARE Blues in Utah Lake, and have also heard the contrary from other fishery experts. After the last months posts, I was somewhat convinced that I was mistaken and had simply observed a color variation of the Channel Cat. That changed however on Thursday. While fishing in the wind and rain I landed 4 nice Cats. One of them looked like a fish that would be considered a Blue Cat. I decided to do my own little careful investigation. I chose two similarly sized catfish, both around four pounds, but for argumentative reasons, the channel cat was 1/4 of a pound larger. Besides the obvious color difference, I noted the following: The mouth on the "Blue" was larger. The anal fin was noticably different. the pectoral fin was different, ie. The Channels was longer and narrower, the "Blues" was shorter and wider. The tail on the Channel was forked, the "Blue was Nearly flat. The head on the "Blue" was larger wider and flatter, and the eyes are a different color.
So, I have once again changed my position. There ARE Blue Cats in Utah Lake. Barring DNA test results or other conclusive evidence, including but not limited to Christ himself telling me I am wrong, I stand by my decision...
Slayereace
ps. Yes there are photos!
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I don't think the picture you have of the anal fin is of the anal fin. Looks like one of the pelvic fins to me. The very long one (singular) on the bottom of a cat is the anal fin. It looks like the anal fin was pretty messed up (slice gone) on one of those cats (the proposed Blue). The most consistent way of distinguishing between a Blue and a Channel are the number of soft (no bony spine) rays in the anal fin. Channel has 24-29 and Blue has 30 or more. Counting rays is easy if you drag a toothpick across the fin and count how many times it pops over a ray. If that one anal fin wasn't so messed up you could count the rays and confirm/discount your suspicion. Here's one of many pages on the 'net that describes the anal fin ray count difference
[url "http://home.earthlink.net/~catfish_billy/id45.html"]http://home.earthlink.net/~catfish_billy/id45.html[/url]
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THIS JUST GOES ALONG WITH THE LAST REPLY TO YOUR POST. ALTHOUGH THE TWO CATFISH YOU HAVE THERE ARE DIFERENT COLORS THE BASE YELLOWISH COLOR OF THE CHANNEL CAT IS STILL THERE IN BOTH. ALSO AS CHANNEL CATS GET LARGER THEY USUALLY GET DARKER. BLUE CATS HAVE A LITTLE DIFFERENT WITH VERY LITTLE TO NO UNDERLYING YELLOW COLOR. THEY ARE ALMOST COMPLETELY BLUE WITH WHITE TO GREY UNDERTONES LIKE THE PICTURE POSTED SHOWS. ALSO THERE IS A SLIGHT SHAPE DIFFERENCE. HERE ARE A BUNCH OF THE PICTURES I FOUND. ALSO THERE IS A COLOR DIFFERENCE IN SOME CHANNELS THAT MAKES THEM MORE BLUE/GREY AND THESE ARE SOMETIMES CALLED BLUE CHANNEL CATS. THEY AREN'T A DIFFERENT SPECIES, JUST A DIFFERENT COLORATION. I COULD ONLY FIND ONE PICTURE OF A BLUE CHANNEL, BUT IT IS PRETTY YOUNG, BUT SHOWS TO AN EXTENT THE COLORATION DIFFERENCE,
JED
P.S. I AM NO EXPERT OF COURSE, BUT FROM WHAT I COULD RESEARCH THERE ARE NO TRUE BLUE CATFISH IN UTAH, JUST BLUE CHANNEL CATS.
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they look like channel cats to me!!
not sure about this but i think blue cats live in warmer water than we have here in utah.. the only place i have seen them cought is in the southern states and So Cal..
it would be fun if there are some in utah lake.. but i have cought a lot of cat's out of utah lake and never seen a blue..
but i have seen some very blue colored channels come out of there..
dude on fish?
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I agree with Fuzzy that the pictured cats are all channel cats. What might have happened was that the darker one was caught in a muddier (or possibly less muddy) stretch of water than the others. Water color and clarity has a huge impact on color on cats as well as other species. That said, The controversy about the blue cats in Utah lake has been around since I was a little kid. I'm not going to unequivocally say there are none there, but I feel it is doubtful they are there. All of the "blue" cats I have seen presented tend to be larger,older fish. Never a small one. It is well known that channel cats have their olive color and spotting fade as they get older, some dramatically so. If there was a reproducing blue cat population, smaller ones would be occasionally caught. I have never seen or heard of one. The DWR official position is still no blue cats in Utah lake. (per the director in a message board answer their web site). Channel cats have a notorious amount of individual variation too. This clouds the issue more. I used to fish for them in Lake Mead in Nevada. It is a relatively clear water lake and most of the cats were quite uniform olive in color.(except the very big ones) Once in a while though you would get one that was blacker or even very pale white on the ventrum. Maybe these fish were nibbling sewage from houseboats or something. Anyway, thats my inflation adjusted 2 cents.
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What area of Utah Lake did u fish, and what kind of set-up?
Thanks!
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Those are both channel cats. They're just different colors.
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[cool][blue][size 1]Hey Fuzzy, just so ya know, true blue cats are found in the large rivers and many reservoirs from Minnesota to Mexico. They are common and popular in the Ohio River drainage, where it gets as cold or colder than in Utah.[/size][/blue]
[#0000ff][size 1]Some of the biggest blues every year are caught during the coldest months. The real big fish blue cat experts do their most serious fishing during the winter months.[/size][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][size 1]Perhaps the biggest factor limiting their potential for being in Utah...besides the DWR...is their liking for deep running water (big rivers). Utah Lake does not fit the description. They might live in Utah Lake but would probably never reach their size potential. Blue cats of 90 to 100 pounds are taken every year in some waters. A fifty pounder does not get the locals excited in most areas they are found.[/size][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][size 1]But, let's just dream for a minute. What if there was a big ol biggun in Utah Lake...and some moonlit night it grabbed onto Coldfooter's bait and took him water skiing right out of the bed of his truck and across the lake? Would anybody believe him then?[/size][/#0000ff]
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[cool][#0000ff][size 1]Hey everybody, I went back through some of my archived pics and found a couple of some cats from Willard, taken quite a few years ago. These pics are a good illustration of the color variations of channel cats, and how large males especially take on a bluish coloration and get bigger heads and mouths.[/size][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][size 1]Oh yeah, in the one picture we see a male channel doing his part for cleaning up the environment. Some slob angler left an Oly Gold can laying around and the catfish was decent enough to pick it up for disposal on the way home from the lake.[/size][/#0000ff]
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Here is my question to you. In stead of taking some fishermans word, or even the supposed game wardens (game wardens deal with game...deer, elk, sheep...not fish) or a park ranger (they don't have a clue either), why don't you call the central region offices, and ask to talk to a fisheries biologist and find out if there are blues in Utah lake or not? that would be the quickest, and simplest way to find out what you are catching (which are both channels)! Go to the source to find the answer of your question....if you want, I'll even give you the phone number and the name of one of the biologist to talk to...
blues in utah.....what's next? Peacock bass in Gunlock?
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but PBH that would take all the fun out of it!! man you need to lighten up dude!!!
dude on fish?
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That catfish was darker because he was suffering the effects of "bitter beer skin". Poor fishy.[
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Buddy I don't care if they got blues, pinks, green or what-not if they are fish then I'm gonna go out and try to catch them. Nice batch of fish bet it was fun catching them...
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O.K.,
Christ himself didn't tell me I was wrong. TubeDude pretty much did... Thats close enough for me... Thanks Pat! I was trying to put a little fun into this forum to liven things up until the fish really start hitting. Well it worked. I'll have to start working on another controversy.
Slayer/ (Mick)
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For various reasons, I knew for a fact that both cats were channel cats, however,
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime."
I learn something new on a regular basis from reading stuff on this forum, and I try to pass along things I know. I like generating dialogue too. It's great! However, think critically. I know I'm stating the obvious here, but beware of taking the word of another on a complex or even simple subject unless the one giving the advice qualifies it with some substance like TubeDude and some others have in this thread. TubeDude in particular is always good for some substance and then some.
"F[size 1]isheries biologist" can be in error too. Many years back when I was studying invertebrate zoology in college, the DWR were protecting crayfish and there was no harvest on them. As worded in the proclamation, it was illegal to harvest or harm "crustaceans" (an entire phylum). I pointed out the error to my professor, and because he was an authority on invertebrates, I had him send them a letter pointing out the fact that they had not only made it illegal to harvest crayfish, they had also made it illegal to harm a pill bug (rollie pollie, sowbug, potato bug, etc). Taken literally, it was illegal to poison the little %$#@! eating the strawberries in my garden.[/size]
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[cool][blue][size 1]Hey RABBLEROUSER, doncha got nothin' better to do than get the locals whipped up in a frenzy? [/size][/blue]
[#0000ff][size 1]How about startin' another thread on corn chummin', or maybe catch and release vs hook and cook? Then there's the old reliable category: fly fishermen vs the rest of the fishing world.[/size][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][size 1]Better yet, why not go fishing and get a good "brainbroom"? Always remember...you can fish or you can fuss. But, you can't fish AND fuss. Just ain't no room in the average fisherman to think about anything besides fishing when they are out on the water. Works for me.[/size][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][size 1]You do good work Randy. Thanks for the kindly comments in my direction.[/size][/#0000ff]
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its as simple as this the blue ones are males...( depending on the water color) and the olive more slender ones are females. all channels... no blues in utah.. its that simple.
joe
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Look at all the good answers like this last one. Good solid answers and some tact put in with it, unlike somebody else who everyone knows I'm talking about. Heaven forbid have some fun talking about stuff.
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