05-03-2004, 09:08 PM
05-05-2004, 12:08 AM
Is it some sort of an anchovy? [
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05-05-2004, 08:05 PM
no but great guess
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05-05-2004, 08:25 PM
How about some sort of baby herring or shad?
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05-05-2004, 09:04 PM
I to was going to guess some kind of herring
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05-06-2004, 12:56 AM
no but great answers
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05-06-2004, 01:01 AM
great answer but not correct
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05-06-2004, 03:28 AM
I figured it out (once again, taking shortcuts) but I'm staying out of the voting this time.
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05-06-2004, 03:42 AM
DDR...I have looked at so many fish today.
I still havent figured it out!!
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I still havent figured it out!!
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05-06-2004, 03:59 AM
When you're on a computer as much as I am each day there's easy ways to figure things out... especially the way he's posting the pic of the fish. Took me about 5 minutes to find it.
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05-06-2004, 06:11 PM
well i just try to make it interesting but not to hard.
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05-06-2004, 07:59 PM
seeing no one else is guessing. how about of the pirannah family..??
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05-06-2004, 08:32 PM
[
][#ff0000][size 2]Would this be a clue?[/size][/#ff0000] ![[Image: gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=4331;]](http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=4331;)
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05-06-2004, 09:13 PM
Warpaint shiner Luxilus coccogenis
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05-06-2004, 10:51 PM
Great job One_eyed_jack! Did you come across it the same way I did?
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05-06-2004, 11:18 PM
[#800040][size 2][cool]Hey there DrownedDesertRat,[/size][/#800040]
[#800040][size 2]Using this method is not fair.Then again why not.[
][/size][/#800040]
[url "http://www.choiceshirts.com/images/A6/10/A6105D-md.jpg"][#004040][size 1]http://www.choiceshirts.com/images/A6/10/A6105D-md.jpg[/size][/#004040][/url]
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[#800040][size 2]Using this method is not fair.Then again why not.[

[url "http://www.choiceshirts.com/images/A6/10/A6105D-md.jpg"][#004040][size 1]http://www.choiceshirts.com/images/A6/10/A6105D-md.jpg[/size][/#004040][/url]
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05-07-2004, 03:28 AM
correct Warpaint shiner Luxilus coccogenis (Cope) ![[Image: L_coccogenus1.gif]](http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Images/L_coccogenus1.gif)
Kingdom: Phylum: Class: Order: Family: Animalia Craniata Osteichthyes Teleostei Cyprinidae Animals Vertebrates Bony Fishes Teleosts Minnows
The warpaint shiner is a moderately large, deep-bodied species with an extremely large and terminal mouth. The origin of the dorsal fin is directly over the origin of the pelvic fin. It is colored a silvery gray with a dark, vertical bar behind the operculum. Adults and large juveniles have characteristic bright red-orange markings on the snout, anterior dorsal fin base, and posterior margin of the preopercle.
The warpaint shiner is an active inhabitant of the upper Tennessee River drainage, where it is most common in cool, clear streams with rocky substrates. It occurs in areas of moderate to swift currents where it is quite tolerant of water temperatures cold enough to support trout populations.
Pectoral fin tubercles are unique for the genus Luxilus, with multiple cusps developing on many tubercle bases. Nuptial males have large tubercles on the snout tip and in 2 (2-3) rows along the lower jaw. Smaller tubercles occur near the tips of the pelvic and anal fins rays, and on the distal portion of the dorsal and caudal fin rays. Body scales lack tubercles as are found in the striped shiner ([url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/L_chrysocephalus.html"][#0000ff]L. chrysocephalus[/#0000ff][/url]). Lower jaw tubercles develop on very small, and immature, individuals of both sexes, and these persist from late April through early November.
SPECIES DESCRIPTION
Size: maximum total length 120 mm (4.7 in.)
Color: silvery gray; adults and large juveniles have pale basicaudal areas and red-orange at anterior dorsal fin base, on snout, and on posterior margin of preopercle; dark, vertical band behind the operculum; nuptial males with dark vertical band extending through the middle of the dorsal fin and dark blotch at fork of caudal fin
Fins: anal fin rays 9 (8-10); pectoral fin rays 15-17; pelvic fin rays 8
Lateral-line scales: 39-44; predorsal scale rows 17-18 (16-19)
Gill rakers: 5-8, with rakers about as long as wide
Vertebrae: 40-42
Pharyngeal teeth: 2,4-4,2
Similar species: Young of Luxilus coccogenis are very similar to those of [url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/L_chrysocephalus.html"][#0000ff]L. chrysocephalus[/#0000ff][/url] but the latter lack the dark bar behind the operculum, have a much smaller mouth, and lack lower jaw tubercles. The only other cyprinid that occurs in the Park that might be
with the warpaint shiner because of its white basicaudal areas is the whitetail shiner, [url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/C_galactura.html"][#0000ff]Cyprinella galactura[/#0000ff][/url]. However, the whitetail shiner has distinct diamond-shaped scale outlines, a subterminal mouth (snout extends past upper jaw), and lacks the dark bar behind the operculum. DISTRIBUTION
North America:
The warpaint shiner is abundant in the Blue Ridge and Ridge and Valley portions of the Tennessee River drainage. It is less common on the Cumberland Plateau and southern Highland Rim portions of the Tennessee drainage. It also occurs in the upper Savannah and Santee drainages of Georgia and the Carolinas, presumably due to headwater piracy from the Tennessee, and is well established in the upper New (Kanawha) system, where it was probably introduced.
In Park:
Luxilus coccogenis is abundant throughout the Park, up to elevations of about 2,200 ft, and persists in lower Abrams Creek (Simbeck 1990). [url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/L_coccogenisparkmap.html"][#0000ff]See Park distribution map[/#0000ff][/url]. NATURAL HISTORY
Biology of warpaint shiners has been summarized in Outten (1957). Spawning was observed in mid-June, with males congregating over the upstream ends of river chub ([url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/N_micropogon.html"][#0000ff]Nocomis micropogon[/#0000ff][/url]) nests. Females remained slightly downstream from the males, with occasional individuals approaching a male. After a short period of midwater contact, the pair settled to the bottom and eggs were deposited in crevices between stones bordering the upstream end of the chub nest. Average number of eggs was 300-750, with a maximum of over 1,600 in an extremely large female. Hybrids have been documented between the warpaint shiner and [url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/C_funduloides.html"][#0000ff]Clinostomus funduloides[/#0000ff][/url] and [url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/N_telescopus.html"][#0000ff]Notropis telescopus[/#0000ff][/url].
Warpaint shiners grow to about 50 mm (2 in.) standard length by the end of the first summer and to about 80 mm (3 in.) in their second year. Most fish are not sexually mature until their third summer, and few fish survive to a fifth year. In the spring, warpaints eat primarily mayfly nymphs and other aquatic immatures, with some terrestrial insects. Summer diet consists mostly of insects taken at the surface, with aquatic immatures (mostly taken as drift organisms from midwater) taken less frequently. CONSERVATION BIOLOGY Special Protection Status
Rangewide: There is no federal or state listing for Luxilus coccogenis [P. W. Shute, pers. comm., Leader, TVA Natural Heritage Project (February 27, 2001)].
In Park: Luxilus coccogenis has no special status in the Park. However, all plants and animals are protected in National Parks and collection requires a permit that is usually granted only for scientific or educational purposes.
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![[Image: L_coccogenus1.gif]](http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Images/L_coccogenus1.gif)
![[Image: L_coccogenus2.gif]](http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Images/L_coccogenus2.gif)
The warpaint shiner is a moderately large, deep-bodied species with an extremely large and terminal mouth. The origin of the dorsal fin is directly over the origin of the pelvic fin. It is colored a silvery gray with a dark, vertical bar behind the operculum. Adults and large juveniles have characteristic bright red-orange markings on the snout, anterior dorsal fin base, and posterior margin of the preopercle.
The warpaint shiner is an active inhabitant of the upper Tennessee River drainage, where it is most common in cool, clear streams with rocky substrates. It occurs in areas of moderate to swift currents where it is quite tolerant of water temperatures cold enough to support trout populations.
Pectoral fin tubercles are unique for the genus Luxilus, with multiple cusps developing on many tubercle bases. Nuptial males have large tubercles on the snout tip and in 2 (2-3) rows along the lower jaw. Smaller tubercles occur near the tips of the pelvic and anal fins rays, and on the distal portion of the dorsal and caudal fin rays. Body scales lack tubercles as are found in the striped shiner ([url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/L_chrysocephalus.html"][#0000ff]L. chrysocephalus[/#0000ff][/url]). Lower jaw tubercles develop on very small, and immature, individuals of both sexes, and these persist from late April through early November.
SPECIES DESCRIPTION
Size: maximum total length 120 mm (4.7 in.)
Color: silvery gray; adults and large juveniles have pale basicaudal areas and red-orange at anterior dorsal fin base, on snout, and on posterior margin of preopercle; dark, vertical band behind the operculum; nuptial males with dark vertical band extending through the middle of the dorsal fin and dark blotch at fork of caudal fin
Fins: anal fin rays 9 (8-10); pectoral fin rays 15-17; pelvic fin rays 8
Lateral-line scales: 39-44; predorsal scale rows 17-18 (16-19)
Gill rakers: 5-8, with rakers about as long as wide
Vertebrae: 40-42
Pharyngeal teeth: 2,4-4,2
Similar species: Young of Luxilus coccogenis are very similar to those of [url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/L_chrysocephalus.html"][#0000ff]L. chrysocephalus[/#0000ff][/url] but the latter lack the dark bar behind the operculum, have a much smaller mouth, and lack lower jaw tubercles. The only other cyprinid that occurs in the Park that might be

North America:
![[Image: L_coccogenisTH.gif]](http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/NA_maps/L_coccogenisTH.gif)
The warpaint shiner is abundant in the Blue Ridge and Ridge and Valley portions of the Tennessee River drainage. It is less common on the Cumberland Plateau and southern Highland Rim portions of the Tennessee drainage. It also occurs in the upper Savannah and Santee drainages of Georgia and the Carolinas, presumably due to headwater piracy from the Tennessee, and is well established in the upper New (Kanawha) system, where it was probably introduced.
In Park:
Luxilus coccogenis is abundant throughout the Park, up to elevations of about 2,200 ft, and persists in lower Abrams Creek (Simbeck 1990). [url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/L_coccogenisparkmap.html"][#0000ff]See Park distribution map[/#0000ff][/url]. NATURAL HISTORY
Biology of warpaint shiners has been summarized in Outten (1957). Spawning was observed in mid-June, with males congregating over the upstream ends of river chub ([url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/N_micropogon.html"][#0000ff]Nocomis micropogon[/#0000ff][/url]) nests. Females remained slightly downstream from the males, with occasional individuals approaching a male. After a short period of midwater contact, the pair settled to the bottom and eggs were deposited in crevices between stones bordering the upstream end of the chub nest. Average number of eggs was 300-750, with a maximum of over 1,600 in an extremely large female. Hybrids have been documented between the warpaint shiner and [url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/C_funduloides.html"][#0000ff]Clinostomus funduloides[/#0000ff][/url] and [url "http://www.dlia.org/atbi/species/animals/vertebrates/fish/Cyprinidae/N_telescopus.html"][#0000ff]Notropis telescopus[/#0000ff][/url].
Warpaint shiners grow to about 50 mm (2 in.) standard length by the end of the first summer and to about 80 mm (3 in.) in their second year. Most fish are not sexually mature until their third summer, and few fish survive to a fifth year. In the spring, warpaints eat primarily mayfly nymphs and other aquatic immatures, with some terrestrial insects. Summer diet consists mostly of insects taken at the surface, with aquatic immatures (mostly taken as drift organisms from midwater) taken less frequently. CONSERVATION BIOLOGY Special Protection Status
Rangewide: There is no federal or state listing for Luxilus coccogenis [P. W. Shute, pers. comm., Leader, TVA Natural Heritage Project (February 27, 2001)].
In Park: Luxilus coccogenis has no special status in the Park. However, all plants and animals are protected in National Parks and collection requires a permit that is usually granted only for scientific or educational purposes.
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05-07-2004, 03:38 AM
in the dace family
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05-11-2004, 08:34 PM
Who knows... It is easy to do it one way, which is a shortcut, however I was curious as to what it was so I did some looking. I knew it was a minnow/shinner of some type and went from there.
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