Fishing Forum

So, the rumor is that the DWR wants to STANDARDIZE and SIMPLIFY the current bass regulations.

Standardize, and simplify.

The problem is, the most standard and simple regs are no regs.
Do what ever you want, wherever, however you want.

But, we all know that wont work.

So, there has to be a set of rules to PROTECT the fish.

Fishermen have four basic needs when it comes to fishing, from what I have seen.

First, they want to have lots of places to catch fish available to them.
Second, they want to have lots of fish to catch.
Third, they want to eat some fish.
Fourth, they want potential to catch a real trophy fish.

The problem of BALANCE comes in when you have that type of needs.

So, how do you set up some simple regs that are standard and meet these specific and diverse needs?

Well, it takes a lot more than regs to grow lots of fish, and big fish.
But, the regs can help out.

I think a statewide five fish limit, with all fish over 18 inches must be immediatley released, and a closure to the possession of all fish between may 1st and june 31st is a nice plan.

its simple, its a decent standard, and it does good.

Now, I know some of you are going to say, thats a bunch of crap.
And you are entitled to your opinion.

But let me tell you why I think its a good idea.

First, it meets the need to harvest fish, but allows for the harvest of smaller fish.
You get two birds with this since it protects trophy size fish, and ensures they will meet thier potential, plus it allows for harvest of the largest population of fish in any given lake.
lets face it, theres a whole lot more small fish than big ones in all lakes.
Some of the tournament anglers wont like the 18 inch release rule, and will say it ruins tourmanets, but go to one. How many fish over 18 inches get weighed at every tournament? Most all of the fish are well under 18 99% of the time. Yeah it might effect one or two guys once in a while, but its not going to hurt a tournament in the long run.

The last part is designed to protect fish during thier most critical life cycle. The spawn.
When bass spawn, they are extremely exposed. Not only are they exposed, but removing them from a nest, and leaving the nest, and the fry exposed without the male, while the fish gets filleted, or moved half way across a lake, causes thier to be less fish survival.
So, to ensure there are plenty of fish to be harvested, and plenty of fish to be caught, you have to protect the spawn.

Its complex in its basic nature, but three simple regs arent hard to remember, not difficult to make adjustments to, and could make a world of difference to utahs bass fisheries.

Think about the other options.

Statewide bass limit of 10 no size restrictions. Yeah, that would be great for two years.

Statewide bass limit of 2, all bass under 15 inches immediate release.

Statewide bass limit of 6, all bass over 12 inches immediate release.

Weigh your options, what do you like best?

Any one got any ideas for the DWR? I would like to start a thread of ideas, and brain stroms to see what utah anglers like.

Theres no way the DWR will ever have enough money to micro manage individual fisheries, you have to be able to make regs basic, and easy to understand and follow. Plus you have to try to do whats best for the fisheries while you are at it.

So, whats your ideas?

Please tell me if you dont like mine and why, I am curious to see if I have a popular opinion or not. Its not my favorite option, I would love to see more regs, more specific regs, tighter restrictions, and extensive managment on idividual lakes, but thats not the way of the future for fishing here in utah so its the best I have been able to come up with.
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I remember way back when, all fishing was closed up untill spring, man did I ever get the itch.
Im not suggesting bring that back again either, cause there would be no ice fishing time[]

I am curious though to the statement saying "Nothing over 18in"
If nothing over 18" how are you supposed to take a trophy ?

In my post of BIG CAT, that's a trophy!!! I know were talkin bass here, but what type in general?

Now im rambeling.... gotta lay off the vodka, and I may have mis inturpeted the whole thing......LOL

Law
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ALL BASS UNDER 12 INCHES MUST BE RELEASED 1 BETWEEN 12 1ND 15 AND ONE OVER 24. ANY THING BETWEEN GOES BACK. MODDAFIED SLOT.
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You cannot standardize a limit on Bass...because all lakes are different. Different fishing pressures, different growth rates due to accessability of food and structure and a biggie that seems to be forgotten is water fluctuation.

1. The DWR would have to start and maintain a stocking program for Bass, not just transferring them from one lake to another.

2. If all lakes had regs of taking under 18" fish, the lakes with higher fishing pressure would soon be fished out...and few if any would live off the grill long enough to make it to that magical 18" mark trophy class.

On the positive: Regulating during the spawn is a good idea. Many states have specific regulations prohibiting fishing in various areas known for nests and during specific months of the year.

There again it cannot be generalized in regards to spawning times because of the various climates in Utah. The southernmost lakes will start spawning in April whereas the Northernmost lakes don't start the spawn until around the first of June. This all has to be considered. Off limits to fishing during the spawn would span several months.

3. Largemouth and Smallmouth have different growth rates and on most lakes, Smallmouths don't ever reach 18" to begin with. Few lakes have 18" Smallmouths, and until Jordanelle...an 18" Smallmouth was considered a trophy in Utah.

4. I do fish tournaments and in most of the tournaments, both amateur and professional, if you don't bring in fish over 20" you are not even in the top ten percent.

5. S.U.B.A. and the Utah Bass Federation are at this time working on a proposal to the DWR to allow special livewell permits specifically for tournaments that are held in Utah to allow 12" and larger fish to be brought in during tournaments. This would aid in fish studies, since the DWR would know about every tournament and have a representive on hand as needed.

6. Tournaments are still being held on Jordanelle, Deer Creek, Quail Creek, Sand Hollow, Gunlock, Lake Powell, Flaming Gorge, and others, and all of these lakes have various regulations and there is no problem with fishermen understanding the specific lake regulations...unless they don't know how to read.

7. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It is every ethical and lawabiding fisherman's responsibility to know the regulations on each lake. (Trout lakes have different regulations, so why standardize bass if trout are not standardized.)

If there are not standard lakes in Utah...meaning each lake is not a cookie cutter example of each other...food, structure, water level, altitude, fishing pressure, water temperatures...how can limits be standardized especially when Utah DOES NOT HAVE A STOCKING PROGRAM FOR BASS.

The DWR (Division of Wildlife Resources)...means they are supposed to be managing the natural resources to benefit wildlife.

If anyone thinks Utah fishing regulations are too tough, too convoluted or too hard for the general public to understand...perhaps Utah should implement the same type of fishing education that is currently in Europe...usually a college course including Biology and disease identification before anyone...can obtain a fishing license.
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[cool]I like your idea, although, I don't know if releasing everything over 18 inches is good for ALL bass fisheries in this state. I do however TOTALLY AGREE with the no possession of bass during the spawn. That is a brilliant idea in my opionion to protect the bass and the eggs in the nest as well.
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Great thread, very thought provoking. First off, I agree with you 100% that the best way would be individual regs for each body of water. I guess I do feel it is possible with bass since it is done with trout streams. (Are the "elitist" fly anglers smarter than the rest of us?) However, for the discussion, here would be mine;

1. 6 fish limit with a maximum size of 12 inches, and one fish over 18 inches. This slot limit would allow liberal harvest of the smaller fish that tend to overpopulate many lakes. Smallies especially seem to have the ability to overpopulate and stunt easily. (ie Flaming Gorge) The "slot" would protect the majority of the spawners and allow continued good reproduction, (and hence small fish for the meat anglers to harvest) and sport fishing for good size fish. Finally, if someone gets a truly spectacular fish, they can keep it if they so wish. I know a lot of our more accomplished bassers regularly score bass over 18 but the average joe doesn't do it too often IMO.

2. The May and June C&R sounds like a good idea.
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First let me say individual regs for different waters is best. If we are going to change a regulation lets revoke a anglers right to fish for keeping fish that are supposed to be released. No I didnt know their was a different regulation on this water. That is way their are free copies of the proclamation available.

Second I think slot limits are the better than the 6 fish under 12 rule. But I would like to see the top end of the slot say 22 inches. Make it real trophy slot for bass. Most anglers that catch the bigger bass will still release them, but as previously stated for some this would be a once in a lifetime catch.

John
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IMO doggonefishin hit the nail on the head. I would change the C&R April 1st to June 31st and a 12"-16" slot might be better. If the growth rate of the bass is fast enough then a 12"-18" slot would be the best option. It would also be better if some of the reservoirs like powell could still be managed with their own special regulations.
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I am all for a more regulated bass fishing and agree with the slot limit and closed for spawning but it must be lake to lake or region to region with spacific lakes spelled out if needed.

Scottieb
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I had a thought on the slot limit I suggested earlier. If the slot already protects the spawner fish year round, then it would not be necessary to have special C&R during the spawn because they would be automatically released anyway. If a given water has most of their spawners under 12-13 inches, then it is in serious need of thinning and keeping some small spawners would be desirable. That would simplify the regulations and one would also not have to account for the Southern Utah-Northern Utah spawning time differences Bassrods correctly brought up.
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[green][size 2]OH MY HELL, I can't believe I agree with Bassrods.

All waters should have regs that work for each body of water, not uniformed rules to make it convient for state officals. Our state is currently way behind the times in working with and dealing with the public(we pay for everything you know), it seems to me that the DWR is always taking the easy or a traditional way out. Well, wake up! This the 21st century. Judges need to enforce the rules. Fish and Game cops need to tell the difference between a poacher and a dumbass rookie fishermen. And, the DWR has to work for/towards the people who pay the bills. [/size][/green]
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Spawning Bass are way too many to number ... Way too many to catch and destroy numbers.

Catching fish during the spawn should be limited to catch & release only. No livewells during the spawning month. The regulation should be specific for each lake and or region. On deepwater lakes, the majority of bass spawn in depths where we can't see them or sight fish them. The ones we do catch from beds in the shallows are actually few.
Specifics need to be the key. All lakes are different.

If anything, they should adopt california's laws and prohibit recreational boating certain days. That way the crowds would be less.
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Okay, here's my two cents. We need to retain different regs according to different conditions in different bodies of water. I see no reason for modifying the statewide regs. I disagree with closing fishing during spawning season. First, most bass get wise and quickly refuse to bite while on their beds. Further, some bass will always manage to elude anglers and spawn successfully. Scientific studies have elucidated that very few successful nests are needed to create a new strong year class of bass. These studies have repetitively portrayed that successful survival and maintenance of a healthy bass population is due to ENVIRONMENTAL conditions after the spawn including water levels, predation, food avalibility, and weather conditions. These studies depict that anglers have negligible impact on the success of bass spawns.
I do believe we need modification on some of the individual bodies of water. The regs requiring all bass over 12 inches to be released needs to be canceled. For many anglers, a trophy bass is meant to be remembered and many want to mount such a fish. Others may just want to keep an occasional big fish.
I would suggest then my solution to many of these waters.
Bass limit 6 only one over 12 inches. That would allow for harvest of a record or personal record fish without much effect on the overall population. Since bass reproduce prolifically, they can sustain more harvest than many catch and release anglers believe.
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A comment was made that bass on beds are too many to count and fishermen would not have an impact on the fishery as a whole. As long as it was catch and release. A good example is Quail Creek. Right now the spawn all but over, and has had several tournaments there over the last several weeks and during the spawn. Bass fry are abundant all around the lake.

Over the last few weeks I have seen more boats fishing the beds there than on any other lake around...yet the fry are abundant. The fishery is solid. The water is clear and the beds are easily seen. Whereas Deer Creek, Jordanelle and Pineview has a green tint which makes visablity deeper than 8 feet difficult.

As for any special regulations during the spawn, I feel are not necessary. There are already laws on the books for size and limits. Ethical fishermen will abide by the regulations while unethical fishermen will continue to violate the law.

Jordanelle is an excellent example of proper regulations per body of water.

As far as someone wanting to keep a trophy for their wall, there is no reason to have to kill a trophy fish with the replications available. All that is necessary is a photograph and measurements.
The replica's are just as lifelike and far more durable than flesh mounts.

If the reason for taking and killing a trophy fish is just for bragging rights...I would question the ethics.
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Look, I think some of us are missing the point.

Of course the best way to do it, is to be very specific, and manage each water in that waters bets interest.

The DWR knows that, so do we all.

The point is, they arent looking to get more specific, or get more intense on managment programs, or stocking programs, they are looking to STANDARDIZE and SIMPLIFY regulations.

Standardize, meaning make the regs the same for the magority of waters, and simplify, meaning make less regs, with less variables and specifics.

So, while you may think the the best way is to get more intense in your managment, the reality is that its looking like going the other way.

Good or bad, thats just the way it is.
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GOOD OR BAD THEN WHY ASK US JUST TAKE ALL REG> OFF AND TO HELL WITH ALL THE LAWS.............................................................AND FISH..........
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I'm with you PRED ...

That is why we live in a "cold-water" state. They are thinking trout management only. The harsh reality is they stock "put & take" trout in community ponds ... these fish die in the summer because of the warm water. BIG WASTE-O-MONEY.

Managing bass are simple. They just need to figure that out. A good resource would be Idaho. These guys have absolutely some of the best bass fishing in the west! It's because of their management.
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Predator I think you are the one to rethink what you’re saying.

Think about it

Fish are not the only types of regulations you have and they are being more specific to region every year. Why?

Well one area is different then others. Other wise fish, elk, deer, antelope, etc. could be taken on any simple regulation rule any where any time.

This is NOT the way things are for different areas of the state as bassrods has stated are warmer or colder, more or less pressure fishing or natural predation, weather and climate changes, fluctuating water levels are huge in this state, and last but not least people not caring for the regulation and doing what they want.

Each body of water needs to be managed on its own Biology for what it has and what it can sustain to make it the best it can be. You want simple, this is it.

Treat each body of water as the separate entity it is to maximize its potential for all.

Tournament fishing- well all tournaments are different to the body of water that is being fished. But bodies of water that are managed properly to handle big fish, I have always seen and catch along with many others fishing, have catch fish over 18 inches. Smallmouth and largemouth.
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Who or where do you get that this is a cold water state?

I have only found cold water at winter time or high in the mountains, is that right .
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I believe they say it is a cold water state is because all bodies of water above the Arizona and New mexico boarder or above a certain altitude or the average water temp for the year is not above 60 degrees. Water that can freeze on the surface.

So by that description Lake of the Ozarkes,MS is concidered a cold water lake but by no means is the fish there for the water temp have size problems. Or are they limited to only haveing one type or certain types of fish that can survive.

So if the body of water falls into one or all of these catigories it can be concidered a cold body of water. But they also say that these bodies of water can also get to 80 degrees at some point of the year as well.

Info for this was gathered from the internet from several sites and pieced together, for no one gives a full desciption of the standard.
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