JUST READ JIMS WEB PAGE. BOATS ARE STAGING OVER THE GRAVLE BEDS AND RIPPING LAGE SPOONS WITH TREBLE HOOKS INTO THE SPAWNING FISH. TO QUOTE JIM. IHOPE ALL THE SNAGGERS GO TO HE!! AND THE DEVLE HAS TREBLE HOOKS.
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well this is true but i have brought this to the table several time's but no one seem 's to want to do jack about it, no one want's to go to rack meeting's and speak there mind onwhat's going on.Jim talking crap about snagger's and other guide services is not going to take care of the problem.us as fisherman can do are part but this will hurt Jim becouse thay will have to shut down linwood for the spawning time's oct-dec and that would salve the snaging problem but then there you take some other guy's main stay of life away most of us do not make are liveing on the water showing every tom dick and harry how to catch these monster fish .i personaly enjoy watching new comer's do well but unlike people that pay a guide to do all the reserch for them i enjoy that part of it more than catching the fish it's the time spent looking for that new honey hole not the catch .we as fisherman need to take the first step and let the dwr know that this is a
way to have to catch fish and i will agree with jim even if him and i dont see eye to eye i'am with ya jim but what do we do? every one that thinks this should end send me a pm and we will start a potition to have linwood shut down during the spawn and if you have eny video or proof that this is hurting the fishery then get it to me or the dwr and we can put this too rest once and for all. the dwr asked me last yr for this but as i posted on the dwr site there were several people that just wanted to talk about my education spelling and such BS which is why thay dont get eny laker tip's AND YOU KNOW WHO YA ARE SO JUST KEEP IT TO YOUR SELF.i just hope that my 5month old son will be able to enjoy what my dad enjoyed with me thank's all later ashley bonser.fishley[cool]
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AGREED IT WILL HURT SOME PEOPLE MAYBEE JIM WOULD SUFFER. I WOULD BET HE IS WILLING TO GIVE UP LINWOOD FOR THOSE MONTHS. HE LOVES THOSE FISH JUST AS MUTCH AS US. I BELEIVE THE CAMCORDER IDEA IS A GOOD ONE THOUGH. WHY HAVENT YOU GONE OUT WITH ONE. I BET JIM WOULD. THIS COULD BE THE PERFECT OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TWO TO LET THE PAST GO AND MOVE FORWARD. ASSISTING EACH OTHER IN THE PROTECTION OF YOUR DREAM TO FISH THEM WITH YOUR SON, JUST LIKE YOU AND YOUR DAD DID... TAKE A SHOT AND CALL HIM I KNOW HE WILL DO IT WITH YA. I BET BOTH OF YOU GUYS KNOW ALOT OF OTHER HONEY HOLES WHERE THEY STACK BESIDE LINWOOD. TAKE CARE ASH.
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Maintaining a decent fishery and the Mac is far more important to me than someones pockets.. If the guides need extra income due to the fact the Bay is close during the spawn let them find a job..
Count me in Ash!
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I'm with you guys. Those fish need to be protected from that sort of slaughter.
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Ok we all agree that something needs to be done ,but what the fish cops need is proof .They need to see video that illegal snagging is happening,and I know that is going to be hard to provide.i have brought this to the attention of the wyoming game and fish before ,and this is what they keep telling me.We as fisherman are going to have to police oursleves to help stop this from taking place. I urge any one that is going to be in linwood to take a camera if possible ,and to very aware of whats happening around them.
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We fished the Gorge two weeks ago and witnesed this for the first time. I have watched the guys at the Utah marina at Bear lake but had never seen anything like this. We sat only a hundred or so yards away and watched three boats of so called fisherman sit and violently jerk there rods for about thirty minutes before we decided to go fishing. The worst part is they acted totally obliviose to our presence I would be ashamed to show or call any fish a trophy that was landed in that manner. The good part is we saw no fish hooked. The weird part is we steadily caught fish everywhere we fished from Antelope to Jarvies. It was actually one of the better numbers trips we have had in a while on the Gorge nothing huge but ALL fish bit tubes tipped with minnows.
If these guys continue this I too agree they should close Linwood. Why does the DWR allow this in broad daylight?
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i would definately sign a petition to close linwood during the spawn. when is the rac meeting for fishing? i have been to a couple of big game racs before, but never fishing. i watched a show on the outdoor channel last spring that made me sick. it wasnt during the spawn, but snagging is snagging. i posted on it and had quite a few responses...of course it changed nothing. i think video taping them in action would be a powerful way to gain the support of the dwr. if i get up this fall, ill take my camcorder with me. let me know if i can do anything further ashley. and dont worry about the people giving you crap about your english skills. i joined bft to find fishing info, not to win composition contests! i know a college professor who is just getting into fishing- despite his education he envy's guys that can fish! good luck this fall- hopefully i can get away at least once!
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I posted here for the first time a few days ago in reply to a post about Splake on Joes Valley, and the fact that the DWR closed it because of snagging. Now I must chime in again.
Closing most of the interior waters in Linwood Bay is EXACTLY what needs to be done from Nov. 1-Dec. 15. Yes, I would lose the opportunity to take clients into that bay to catch fish in the mouth, in a sporting manner. I would lose thousands of dollars of income. However, I will go on record saying I support closing the bay to access to all boats from Nov. 1 through Dec. 15. The heck with the money, SAVE THE FISH. STOP THE SLAUGHTER. And the worst part is that there are two guides out there who lead the snagging parade every morning and evening, and neither the DWR or Forest Service seems to be able to stop it.
I HAVE videotape as recent as last week of several boats, including the two other guides, anchored up over a spawning bed, jerking rods three to 8 feet high, with spoons and treble hooks. On one morning, I witnessed seven fish brought to a boat in a 35 minute period. All were foul-hooked, either in the belly, tail, or outside the mouth in the head. Unfortunately, because of my "guide" status, I am prohibited from approaching any other boat close enough for my wide-angle underewater camera to show where the fish is hooked. I saw it with my own eyes, however, and anybody who needs or wants to see it can do so on any morning or evening in Linwood Bay while fish are on the beds.
I have begged and pleaded for over a decade to Utah DWR and the Forest Service to either ban treble hooks in that area during the spawn, or close the bay completely. To their credit, they did finally close the bay to night fishing, which helped things very much, but its just not enough. They have not been reswponsive to any further action. Remember, too, that Utah DWR encourages the harvest of lake trout, and not just the little ones. (I have that on videotape, too!) Those lakers are vicious predators, you know.
Either the trebles have to go (and have enforcement presence--don't hold your breath on that one), or as suggested here, close Linwood bay during the spawn.
I know the details about why we have no law enforcement, who the snaggers are, etc. I drive down there from my home nearly nightly this time of year, and am fishing in there most every morning, just a few hundred yards from the snaggers, using single hooks, slow presentations, and catching and releasing fish in a sporting manner.
I don't want to write a book here, but can go on for hours with stories and facts. My blood pressure is rising, enough for now.
To be clear, one more time: I'll lead the charge to close the bay. I've asked over and over again. I can fish elsewhere and at other times. Screw the work.
Jim Williams, Creative Fishing Adventures [url "http://www.fishflaminggorge.com"]WWW.fishflaminggorge.com[/url] [url "mailto:fishing@union-tel.com"]fishing@union-tel.com[/url]
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The real problem is not lack of concern on the real fishermens part. I don't fish the Gorge as often as I used to or would like, but I've seen the same thing. The problem is simple lack of funding for the DNR. They simply don't have enough officers to enforce all the game laws at once. I don't know how many officers they have assigned to that region, but they have to cover the late Elk hunt, Duck and Goose hunt and the various administrative tasks as well.
Lets face it, it's not really hard to tell the DNR/Park Service boats from the normal run of the mill boats. They have big light bars on top. If you are one of the snagging (persons), then all you have to do is stop when you see that boat round the point. The DNR just does not have the funding to puchase a (stealth) boat, man it with officers and patrol Linwood 24/7. Is it a shame YES, am I against snagging YES, but until the DNR gets funded at a level comesurate with the resource they are trying to protect we (the law abibing guys) are screwed.
I hope for one that the legislature recognises the importance of outdoors Utah to the economy of this state. But I feel that's just not the case. Until that happens we will pay far too many taxpayer dollars to attract the Olympics and other such nonsense to our state.
Fishly, I can't spell either, so I feel your pain.
IFG
OK, more on this, as actions are more effective than words. If anyone, especially anyone with any regulatory authority, wants to see this BS going on out there first hand, I'm available any day the next couple of weeks that I don't have booked to go in my boat and see, photograph, or videotape first hand the so-called fishing practices taking place out there. My open dates are on the link "open dates" on my website. No fishing, just watching. If you want a fishing trip, then that's something else. No charge for the observation though, especially if it will result in further action. DWR? USFS? Anyone who can make a difference?
My previous complaints and calls to action have fallen on deaf ears over the years, maybe someone else's will be heard.
Contact: Bill Gooseman, USFS, Manila, UT 435-784-3445 (Little enforcement authority on fish regs., but complete authority over guides, including the ones out there leading the snagging party and setting the example for others.)
Roger Schneidervin, "biologist", Utah DWR, Dutch John, UT
Jack Lytle, Warden, Utah DWR, Dutch John, UT (The only warden for the entire Flaming Gorge area, including the Green River, according to Jack, himself!) Utah DWR--Dutch Jonn, 435-885-3164
Utah DWR Northeast Regional Office, Vernal, UT 435-781-9453
Jim Williams, Creative Fishing Adventures, [url "http://www.fishflaminggorge.com"]www.fishflaminggorge.com[/url]
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jim, it sounds like you have the evidence it would take to gain support at a rac meeting. perhaps we should just all show up to a rac and try to get something done. why cant you go close to other boats as a guide? i had a guide almost hit my boat while trolling parallel to me this summer. anyways, if you cant go close enough for your camera im sure ashley or someone else would take you and your camera out. i would if i were up there. good luck, and thanks for the efforts you've put towards stopping this.
one thing- perhaps a bft boycott on these offending guides would help out? there are a lot of people on this board who use guides. i dont use guides, but if i did i wouldnt do business with someone who is unethical in that way. i know i would never do business with the guide i saw on tv doing some summer time snagging. what do you guys think of a name names boycott?
apparantly we posted at the same time. thats a good offer to take people out to see. hopefully someone with some authority, like you said, will take you up on that offer. good luck
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You're exactly right Fishing God. There is only one full-time warden, Jack Lytle, for Flaming Gorge, the Green River, and the Eastern Uintas. Everybody knows his boat, which seldom gets wet. I've personally offered to put him in my boat, looking perfectly average like any other customer I take on the lake. He has never accepted my repeated, and standing, offers. No time, no interest, etc. etc.
DWR definitely understaffed here.
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A very important thing to remember right now: Its not illegal to fish in the manner they fish, it's only illegal if they keep a snagged fish. I have video of unethical and un-sporting practices but not illegal keeping of snagged fish. All they have to say, and what they say, is "I'm not trying to snag 'em. We catch some in the mouth." And they do once in a while. The only solution I see is close the bay, or ban the trebles, which I believe would greatly reduce the number of hook-ups they get and hopefully discourage their fishing method all together. A closure would solve it as long as there would be enforcement, and perhaps the sheriff and Forest Service could have enforcement authority over trespassing or entering a close area, to assist the under-staffed DWR.
If DWR can close Joes Valley, why not Linwood Bay????
That's what got me going on this in the first place last week!
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I'm completely with you Coldfooter! There's plenty of places for me to take people fishing, teach people to fish, and get paid for it, as I do. Heck, there's 80 miles of lake right here where I can fish, but the snaggers can't snag because the fish aren't thick enough. I won't need to get another job, as you suggested, but I can sure stay out of Linwood Bay if that's what it takes to get rid of the snaggers and protect the resource. If I lose some days to work, I'll make them up some other place, or some other time. The fish come first. They belong to everybody, I just borrow them for a few minutes each day.
And just so you know, I have never allowed anyone to kill a lake trout over 28 inches on my boat, and never will for any amount of money!!! Not even a so-called lake record. If I ever get a 60 pounder, its going right back in the water if it has any chance of survival.
Jim Williams
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I can certainly help draft a petition. Or help organize a mass email campaign or letter writing campaign. What's the consensus as to what might help most??
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[font "Impact"][#ff4040][size 3]I say we round up the snaggers[mad] and have ourselves a good old fashion hangin! I'll get the rope and somebody find the tree! [laugh][/size][/#ff4040][/font]
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I don't usually get involved in these kind of threads - I try to stick to fishing, but the snagging in Linwood is a bunch of BS. I'm fully supportive of any effort put forward by any of the members here at BFT and will put my name or time on the line to help. We've got to stop that nonsense.
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what good will it do to close linwood if they don't enforce the illegal activity that goes on in it now? Who will be there to enforce the closure, the same officers that are up there now, ha ha. if we close the bay, all it will do is keep the ethical fishermen and guides out. i think you should reconsider your petition and lets get some law enforcement up there. i know there are some people that can't say this, but i can. a few years ago i emailed a complaint to the officer up there, and his response led me to believe that he not only knew about this, but was in the good ole' boy system that allows this to go on. just my 2cents worth.
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You're right Macman, but let me reiterate. What's going on right now is not illegal between 7 am and 6 pm. It's only illegal to KEEP a snagged fish. The methods they're using to snag them is not illegal if the fisherman simply states he/she is not intentionally trying to snag them. We all know that's a lie, but try proving someone's intent in court. And you're right about the "good ole boy" attitude. The DWR knows exactly what is going on out there, but they don't seem to care, and don't have the manpower to write tickets and challenge the offenders in court. Closing the bay would be easier to enforce. If you're in there for any reason, you're guilty. Period. Intent doesn't have to be proved. It's also possible that either the USFS and/or sherrif could also have law enforcement authority concerning boats entering a closed area. The Forest Service has indicated that to me in the past.
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