Fishing Forum

Earlier this year when I first found this site I purchased a FishCat 4 and retired my Caddis Nav II. I have enjoyed the FC4 very much. It is adequate for my flyfishing needs. I'm now looking to purchase another tube because my oldest grandson is outgrowing the Caddis donut that he had when he was younger and smaller and his little brother is coming on. I'm considering giving the older boy the FC4, passing the donut on to the little guy, and buying another tube for me. I've looked long and hard at the Super Fat Cats. I'm also looking at one made by Venure Outdoors called the Echo that was recommended to me by one of the members on this site. I was going through previous posts and I came upon a statement made by Tubedude in April of 2004 that read: "I have an Outcast Super Fat Cat. It was $369. I would never buy another one. I would probably buy one of the Fish Cat 4's, which is about the same design, but $200 cheaper."

Guess I need to ask you, TD, if you still feel that way, and if your perspective has changed any since then. I'm not rich but I do have the money to buy whichever one I want. I wouldn't mind saving $200, of course. As I understand it the SFC's are an inch wider and about 10 inches longer with an max weight capacity of 300, compared to 250 for the FC4. I'm not a big guy. Right now I weigh in at about 175 and am 5'8". If I stay on my current diet of nuts and twigs I will probably remain at that weight or maybe even lose a few more pounds. I know also that the SFC has bigger pockets, a heavier construction, and better valves. But I've never actually driven one.

I'd appreciate any thoughts some of you SFC owners (or former owners) might have on this.

Thanks.

zonker
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[cool][#0000ff]"It was the best of tubes. It was the worst of tubes." (Apologies to Mr. Dickens) I am referring to my Super Fat Cat. I am still using it, and largely enjoying it, because I have not found something better to replace it. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I will be adding a pontoon to my arsenal in the spring. I won't yet be getting rid of my old Chubby Kitty. However, if I were inclined to replace it, I think I might lean toward trying the Creek Company ODC 420.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff][url "http://www.creekcompany.com/indivdisplay.php?primaryAutoID=103&Department=Float+Tubes"]LINK TO CREEK CO. INFO[/url][/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It looks like a pretty close "knockoff" of the SFC, but with higher backrest. It also has the rigid foam seat and backrest, which makes it closer to the regular Fat Cat in construction. It is also rated for 300#, as are the Fat Cats. However, listing at $159.99, it is closer to the Fish Cat 4 in price. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I had a chance to look one over at a local outlet, but have not had one on the water. However, if I were faced with having to get a replacement for my SFC right now, I would very likely try the Creek Company model.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]By the way, we have quite a few BFT members who have the Fish Cat 4 and they almost all love them. Only those who weigh much over 200 pounds find them to be less than they want in floatation. And, the pockets are not as big as the Fat Cats. Those on the Creek tube look to be somewhat closer to the Fat Cats.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]My big beefs with the Chubbies has been the back seat and the aprons. The Creek seat looks to be nice and high. The apron is the same wimpy setup as the Outcast craft. But, those can be modified too, as I have with the SFC.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Hope that provides something useful. Good luck in your search and let us know where you end up. (Yeah, we know. It will probably be in the water.)[/#0000ff]
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ZONKER, I HAVE THE ODC 420 TD MENTIONED AND I LOVE IT IN FACT I JUST PICKED UP ANOTHER ONE FOR MY SON. SALT AND FRESH WATER IT'S AWSOME! EVEN IF THE ODC WERE PRICED HIGHER IT WOULD STILL BE WORTH IT, BUT AT $150 TO $170 IT'S A STEAL.
I POSTED SOME INFO A WHILE BACK:

[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Float_Tubing_C66/Float_Tubing_General_F81/ODC_420_FLOAT_TUBE_AND_ROD_HOLDER_P220785/"]http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Float_Tubing_C66/Float_Tubing_General_F81/ODC_420_FLOAT_TUBE_AND_ROD_HOLDER_P220785/[/url]

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR CHOICE

ATFISHING
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TubeDude,

Hi, I am also interested in looking at the ODC 420. Checked out website thoroughly, didn't see a dealer list and you had referred to seeing one in person. Have any ideas where I could see one up close and personal. They should have a program for all the referrals you may head in their direction. I am also going to purchse either one of these or the fishcat4 model.

http://flyfishseidaho.net
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[cool][#0000ff]The one I looked at was at a Sportsmans Warehouse in Salt Lake. In checking my store locator for SW in Idaho, I show that there is one in Ammon (near Idaho Falls). You might call and ask if they have one to look at.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Otherwise, just go to Google or Yahoo, and there are quite a few fly fishing sites that are selling the ODC 420. They have them listed at $140 plus shipping at [url "http://www.flystore.net/odc420.htm"]http://www.flystore.net/odc420.htm[/url].[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Cabelas also has them at the suggested retail price of $159.99. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Typically, the manufacturers do not offer any referral fees. Heck, they don't even seem to care that there are websites that do reviews on them. I once approached Outcast about possibly sponsoring the book I am doing, in return for more "favorable mentions". I referred them to our website, and all of the good reviews I had done on the Fat Cats and Fish Cats. I was referred to a snotnosed kid that was their area rep, and he knew absolutely nothing about nothing. He could not even answer my basic questions about some of their products. Needless to say, he viewed me as a threat to his salaried position and did nothing to forward any of the info I sent to him.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I tried the same thing with Caddis, several years ago, while they were still leading players in the float tube market. Same thing. "We have everything under control."[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I haven't approached the Creek Company yet, but I plan to. I am impressed with their aggressive stance in the tube and toon market. They have a lot of new models and are showing some initiative in functional new designs. I will go with that every time.[/#0000ff]
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After comparisons on the Internet I devoted the day to some field research on this issue and just returned home. I first wanted to go and actually sit in a Super Fat Cat, handle it, and check it out up close and personal since I hadn't ever done that before. I was a bit surprised at how similar the FC4 models are to the SFC. I also realized that I think I prefer the foam seat arrangement of my FC4 over the inflatable seat of the SFC. Of course I was sitting in the thing in a fly shop floor and not on the water, so my observation may be subject to error. The thing I noticed was the tendency of the pontoons on either side to be pulled toward my legs when I sat down on the air seat. The rigid foam of the FC4 doesn't seem to do this as readily. Perhaps more air in the cushion would have resolved this. I don't know. These things said, the SFC is a superior boat. I can see why it is so popular and is considered to be the "the Cadillac of Float Tubes." I'm just not sure that with the FC4's as available as they are, it is worth the nearly $235 difference in price that I tallied today in the outlets I checked.

I noted in my travels that Caddis now has a pony in the race. I saw a Caddis v-boat hanging on the wall at Sportsman's that was shaped like the Outcast models, right next to the FC4's and the WW Grigg knockoff of the same. I didn't check either of them out.

My next stop took me to an outlet that sells the ODC 420. I did the sit in the floor test and found it to be about the same as my FC4 as far as seating comfort. The back is higher than the FC4 and the SFC but a person would probably have to spend a day in it to reach a verdict on the comfort. Probably due to my size, I have never been uncomfortable in my FC4 with foam seats so I can imagine it would be about the same. The ODC 420 boat is slightly bigger than the FC4. It is about 5-6 inches longer. I think the width was about the same. (There is only 1 inch of width difference between the SFC and the FC4.) The extra length on the front of the tubes of the ODC 420 would give more room to install things than is present on the FC4. While I didn't disassemble the floor model to check more carefully, I think the ODC 420 is not as well made as the Outcast boats, but it seems to be adequate for everything I might call on it to do. The price is certainly right at $149. Oh, and I think the stripping apron is even worse than the Outcast boats, being attached at the front with velcro. I left without bringing one home because I still have another couple of models to check out. I may return next week to sign the adoption papers.

One of the things that struck me was the number of pontoon boats on sale today - the day after Thanksgiving. I was very tempted to spring for one since my aged Fish Cat 9 toon cannot be trusted to hold air anymore since it is about 13 years old. The quality wasn't as great either in the days when that old boat was born. I don't want a toon right now though as I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather use my regular boat on larger bodies of water.

I appreciate all the input. If anyone has anything else to contribute, please do so. Thanks.

zonker
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TubeDude & Zonker,

Thanks for your feedback and product review guys. I will make a trip to SW in Ammon tommorrow. If I have any other thoughts to pass on that you guys haven't already commented on, I will pass that along tommorrow night. You know it is hard for me to believe that by now in the stage of float tube and pontoon development that someone has not bothered to put together a commercially made apron that is worth a hill of beans! On the other hand improvization (check my spelling) is really part of the fun of all this anyway.

[url "http://flyfishseidaho.net"]http://flyfishseidaho.net[/url]
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ATFISHING,

That's a great job you've done on your craft. You seem to be a PVC master. Now if I could just adapt some of your ideas to fly fishing.

Your words of confidence in and your experience with the ODC 420 make a powerful case for owning one.

z~
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[cool][#0000ff]Thanks for the input. Sounds like you are conducting some serious research. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]One comment on the SFC inflated seat. You experienced "squeeze" when you sat on it. I suspect that it was not fully inflated, or inflated properly. I had to work with mine a bit to get the system down "Pat". To make it work right, I had to use the air pump to get max firmness, rather than just lung power. I also had to air up the bottom part of the seat before inflating the side air chambers. That created enough rigidity to keep the two sides from collapsing inward when I sat on it. However, it made the seat hard enough that I might as well of had the rigid foam seats...for less money.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]That potential problem becomes a real problem whenever you develop a leak in the lower part of the seat. When it softens, the two sides of the SFC definitely squeeze in and you sit lower in the water. And, by keeping the lower seat maxed out in air, you increase the problems with seam failure on that air chamber. I know. I have had to repair pinhole leaks on almost every end seam, for each contour ridge on the inflated seat. So far, that is about eight. That means that at least 8 trips were shortened because I had to return to shore with a saggy seat. I would never have another inflated seat on my tube.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I am surprised (not really) by your observation of the "lesser" quality of manufacture on the Creek craft (in comparison to Outcast). Their ODC line of pontoons is not their premier line either. However, if you only use a craft for a couple of years, and it holds up well for that time, then it is a good value indeed. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I am strongly considering acquiring (adopting) one myself, just to put it through the official "TubeDude Test".[/#0000ff]
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Regarding the seat collapse problem vs. the rigid foam seat...

I read somewhere (maybe here, I don't remember) about a guy who used velcro to mount one of those soft self-inflating seat cushions on his rigid foam seat and made it more comfortable. A step toward the best of both worlds?

Your observation about using a craft only a couple of years is probably a good one. If a guy pays $150 bucks for a unit and gets two or three years of good service with it he has a bargain indeed. That's the way I see it, too. Besides, maybe someone will invent some super new design during that time that we decide we cannot live without. In that case you kinda hope what you have will wear out.

That's too bad about the pinhole leak problem. I can see how it could happen if you have to keep it aired up so tightly all the time. I suspect the seat wasn't sufficiently aired sitting in the fly shop on display. I didn't ask the salesman about it. It is a loss to the folks at Outcast that they are not more interactively responsive to their potential customer base. Something like that can really cut into the sale of their premier model - especially in an environment so competitive when your product is priced at the top of the curve.

All in all, our conversation on this subject has proven very helpful to me. I finally got rid of my Super Fat Cat lust and am looking at things more realistically. You do a great service here.

z~
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[cool][#0000ff]Hey, Mr. Z, I appreciate your appreciation. The info and service is not all one-sided. I treasure the resource of eyes, ears and intellects that we have gathered on this little forum. I continue to advance my own knowledge on a daily basis, through the input and participation of all of our members. As in all things, it is far better to get different outlooks, from different perspectives, in order to truly make informed decisions at buying time.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]About the "hybrid" seat idea. As you might have guessed, I have played with that concept too. I slipped a piece of rigid foam under the cushion on my inflatable SFC seat. Bad idea. The air in the partially inflated "cushion" tended to migrate from one area to another and did not provide an even support. That led to "slip sliding away" and almost sent me forward, over the edge of the seat.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are lots of inexpensive "stadium seats" and inflatable cushions that one could use to simply plop on top of the seat before launching. I just haven't gotten around to trying all of the permutations yet. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have been reasonably happy with the new contoured seat I bungee cord into position. It still leaves a lot to be desired, however. It is heavy and bulky, adding to the weight and the packing volume in my vehicle. And, even though a bit more height would seem to be desirable, it has created the need to modify my apron setup...with PVC risers to hold the rigid plastic apron higher. Otherwise, the apron slants downward and the table becomes a slide. I have dealt with it, but again, it is more bother.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Yeah, I think I am about ready to quit adding "patches" to the SFC and to try to find something that does not have as many of those problems to begin with. But, then I wouldn't have anything to gripe about...or to keep me working on new PVC stuff.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I have used the SFC for over two years. That is about the longest I have ever kept a craft active in my arsenal. I will probably keep it, for family trips or for BFT members who want to get some on-the-water instruction, before "jumping in". But, if I get a trial model of the ODC 420, together with a pontoon, I will have plenty to keep me occupied for a few months anyway.[/#0000ff]
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H'OK guys. I did it. I picked up an ODC 420 today. I think it was the final price that did it for me. That and my existing appreciation for the Fish Cat 4 that I already have. I paid $149 for the ODC. The other tube I was seriously considering was exactly twice that - the Venture Outdoors Echo. Thanks to Alan for giving me the heads up on that model. I almost did it. I still may do so one of these days.

Anyway, back to the ODC. Once I got it home from G.I. Joe's today, inflated it, and went over it again very closely, I concluded that it is really a good tube. It is so near the FC4 (but a little larger with 50 pounds more capacity - more like the Super Fat Cat) I know it will serve me well. Can't wait to get it out on the water.

The only hesitation I have now is that I just got on the Creek Company website and found that they have the ODC 420 discounted to $110. But then you must pay shipping (a whopping $31.50) bringing it back up near what I paid today.

Anyway, I'm happy with the purchase. Glad now that I didn't spend $375 on a Super Fat Cat. Functionally, I don't think there is that much difference.

Thanks to Tubedude, Alan, and ATFishing for your help. Now the grandson gets the FC4 and I get the larger ODC. Cool.

zonker[]
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[cool][#0000ff]If nothing else, your grandson scored a good deal.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Hope you are able to get your new toy out on the water for a shakedown cruise soon. Glad you are happy (so far) with the purchase. We eagerly await your initial report. Oh yeah, be sure to catch some fish to make it official.[/#0000ff]
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[size 1]Earlier in my discussion of the ODC 420 above I made the comment that I didn't think that the quality of this tube was as high as the Fish Cat 4. Since getting mine I will now have to say I was wrong. What threw me off was the colors. The FC4 is dark blue with a black bottom. The stitching is hardly visible against the dark backdrop. The ODC is light blue with a gray bottom. The stitching is more visible. Made it look cheaper.

Putting the two side by side now, I'd have to say that they are of about the same quality. In fact, with the added carrying capacity of the ODC, I am very happy. Just finished equipping it with a fly rod holder and fish finder mount. Hope to get out and put some trout on the end of the line this weekend.

zonker [/size]
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