I have recently begun fishing with 4 lb test and have been impressed with the results. I really think I get a lot more takers. One problem I have noted though is a lot of break-offs at the knot, and they are not neccessarily when I've got the heat on either[unsure]. Many are on hook sets, but before the pressure really even builds. This is a new problem to me that I never experienced with 6 or 8 lb test. Does anyone else notice this? Are there any recommendations on what to do? I've wondered about using either more or less twists on the barrel knot. Is there another knot that works better for these small diameter lines? What brand do you guys use in 4 lb, and how successful?
Thanks in advance for any comments!
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Here are a couple of thoughts. You mentioned "break offs". If the leader has a curly end where it "broke off" it is probably the knot comming untied. If that is the case another knot would be better. I don't think you mentioned what kind of knot you use now. If the leader is truly braking at the knot there are a couple of possabilities. Lighter leader is more suseptible to fraying when you catch a fish, bumping on the bottom while nymphing or wear from the action of a lure or casting. You may want to retie periodically. Another consideration is that if you use a knot that slips tight the friction of the slipping can actually melt monofiliment line/leader/tippet. Lighter leader again will be more suseptible to weakening by heat than heavier leader will be. Try wetting the line before tightening the knot.
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[cool][#0000ff]We have had a lot of line and knot threads in the past. All we have ever established is that everybody has their own favorites. Here are a few.[/#0000ff]
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=36836;#36836"][#000000][size 1]FLOUROCARBON [/size][/#000000][/url]
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=38509;#38509"][#000000][size 1]SUPERLINES [/size][/#000000][/url]
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=22084;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread"][#000000][size 1]ICE FISHING LINES???[/size][/#000000][/url][size 1]
[/size][url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?post=23064;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread"][#000000][size 1]LINE TEST VS DIAMETER????[/size][/#000000][/url][size 1] [/size]
[#0000ff]As I have mentioned in quite a few previous posts, I am a light tackle guy. I use a lot of 4# line and have landed big fish on it. I also notice getting more hits on lighter lines. But, there are a lot of variables that could be contributing to your knot breaking problems.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]1. Brand and quality of line. Don't buy cheap, especially in the lighter lines. I prefer the Silver Thread Excalibur. I still stand by my claim that I have never broken off a fish on it or had knot failure. Even when I break off on a snag the line usually breaks before the knot gives way.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]2. The type of connection knot you use. If you are using a recognized high percentage knot...Trilene, clinch or improved clinch, uni knot...there may be other problems.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]3. The stiffness of the rod you are using. You can't fish light line on a stiff rod. You will break off on hooksets a lot. You need a rod with enough flex to absorb some of the shock when you set the hook or fight a fish.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]4. Proper knot tightening. Most seasoned knotters spit on their mono knots before tightening them down. Yeah, it's unsanitary but it lubricates the mono against sudden heat builtup when you pull fast to tighten the knot. Heat is a big enemy of mono.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]5. The age of your line. Old mono that has been exposed to sunlight, heat and other conditions like that will degrade the line and seriously reduce the strength and elasticity. Buy good line and respool often.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Just remember the definition of fishing. It is a jerk on one end of the line waiting for a jerk on the other end. Don't jerk too hard.[/#0000ff]
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Thanks for the responses guys. I use what I believe is called the improved clinch. You put the line through the hook eye and twist a couple of times on it self, send the line throught the hole created by the twists and then come back up through the new hole. I do always lubricate the line with a little spit as well. I'm guessing there may be something to the stiff rod idea. I do use a light rod, but not an ultra light as money doesn't go very far on a grad student budget and I need a rod strong enough for cats in the bear river as well as light enough for trout elsewhere. When the budget allows I'll have to get a lighter rod. I may also be prey to the cheaper line syndrome. I bought the one that comes with free trout magnets at Wal-Mart. I'll look into that excalibur stuff.
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[cool][#0000ff]Hey Gary, if it won't gross out your wife to get another funny letter, I will send you the last part of a spool of the 4#. It is probably about 100 yards or so...enough for a "top shot". That should give you an idea whether or not the line issue is a problem. I just got a new 1000 yard spool so I would be happy to send that along. I still have your address from the contest.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It is hard to find the Excalibur. Sportsmans does not stock it and even Cabelas does not keep it in their store in the 4# size. I have to buy it online through Cabelas. Bass Pro used to carry it, but I don't buy much from them now.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]You lost me with the trout magnets. Don't those only work on "steelheads". Not sure the DWR would approve.[/#0000ff]
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I hadn't even thought of trying the magnets on "Steelhead", I'll have to give it a go next time I'm up in that country[cool]. They are just a little jig I've been using for a few years while ice fishing at Hyrum. They are very effective there. Anyhow earlier this winter when I hit Wally World to get a few more they had a promo-pack with a free spool of 4lb test on it. The brand was called S.O.S. and it had all the marketing gimmicks to make it sound cool. I needed the magnets and had been wanting to try 4 lb test for a while so I bit. Like I said it has increased my bites, but it sure is frustrating losing the fish (not to mention the jig). I like "funny letters" and as long as I let her know it's coming I'm sure she won't freak out either. Thanks!
I don't know if its against the rules to post a link to the trout magnet but I'll do it and you can edit if needed. Probably not much use to you, but maybe some others who don't make their own tackle may be interested. I usually tip them with a spike (maggot) or wax worm.
[url "http://www.troutmagnet.com/tm_color.html"]TROUT MAGNET LINK[/url]
(It's okay. No competition with BFT)
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I tell you what I do no matter what line I use....Stren...by the way. I usually use 10 pound for the aide in running my lures and rapalas deeper than on the thin stuff...although I dont need the heavier line its a application thingy. I have been told one of the strongest knots you can use is the Palomar, although when I ask whats stronger no one can give me an answer, If you need a picture buy any rapala and the little knot card in the package has clinch on one side and palomar on the other. directions below.
take 6 to 10 inches of line and double back to form a loop 3 to 5 inches long, put loop through hook eye, take tag (loose) end and loop end in hands and make overhand knot (like the first part of putting your shoes on). pass hook and eye through remaining loop end and pull loop up to line so hook dangles out of way and you have a "mess" on the line over the hook. this is where it gets fun....spit on it, dip in water, soda, dont use beer thats a waste, some other liquid to lube it up pull tag end of line and rod end of line with same hand at the same time in the same direction and use your thumb to "guide" the knot home.
voilah, you have mastered the Palomar. It supposedly has like an 85 to 95% strength retention of line squared. this is an easy, strong, and fast knot to use. It is the only one I use for anything, snaps, swivels, lures, flies, jigs, spoons.....Ill stop there.
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It sounds like you are doing everything that has been suggested so far - except the line. Take TubeDude up on that offer. I use 4 # a lot too. I also like 2 #, but that is reserved for special applications.
You might want to try different knots than the one you are currently using. Different sized lines require a different number of wraps when using the certain knots(like the improved clinch for one). So what worked with 8 # may not work as well ( if at all) with 4 # line.
Here's a link for some new knots - click on the picture and watch the animation. You can speed it up or slow it down with the control on the right side.
[url "http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com"]Link to knot website click here[/url]
Also, practice the different knots until you feel comfortable with a few. Then, sit down at home and tie one knot on the end of a piece of fishing line with a key ring or swivel on it and attach it to something that won't move, Then tie another knot on the other end with another swivel or key ring. Finally, pull on the key ring/swivel at the free end to test both knots and see which knot holds the longest. Adjust whatever you need to after the test and Repeat until you have consistency with your new knots.
You can also test one kind of knot against a different kind of knot to see which one you particularly tie the best, or which holds better on the size of line you will be using. It's a good idea(and easy to do) to develop a good collection of knots to use for different applications. Gather yourself up a variety of knots that you have confidence with, and you won't be sorry.
Anyway good luck - ain't fishing fun ?
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I'd welcome you as a new member, but I have a hunch that you have been here before with two other user names. Congratulations Chuck on getting back online.
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[cool][#0000ff]Hey Chuck, good to see you back. Looks like you gave up the battle on trying to get on with your old ID. Sorry 'bout dat.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Say hi to the puppies for me.[/#0000ff]
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The only thing that hasn't been hit on is, to use a longer rod and liter rod ...
The longer rod will bend more and is more forgiving then some of the shorter ones try a 7 footer.....
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[size 3][font "Times New Roman"] You have already been given some great advice but I thought I would put in my 2 cents.
About 4 years ago I bought a rod to be used with 4lb line. My rod is perfect for what I use it for. I mostly use it for spinner fishing and vertical jigging. 4lb line is too light to use for most of the bait fishing I do.
I don't use the improved clinch knot any more because there are other knots that have superior knot strength. If you don't believe me compare the improved clinch knot head to head with the palomar or uni. Once you see that the improved clinch breaks first every time you will probably never use it again. I use the palomar often but it depends on the line I'm fishing with. I've tested the uni and palomar head to head with my 4lb line and have found the uni coming out on top slightly more often. I do feel that the palomar has slightly better long term knot strength so it is a toss up when it comes to the 4lb line that I use. I can tie the uni knot with my eyes closed so I use it more than the palomar. I mostly use the uni-knot with 6 or 7 wraps. If you use 3 wraps it is a much weaker knot.
I've tried several types of 4lb line. IMO the 4lb berkley sensation is the best all around line for the type of fishing I do. I haven't tried the excalibur silver thread yet. Tubedude has spent a lot of time on the water so I'm sure excalibur is also a great line.
With lighter line I'll retie much more often. I’ll retie every time I get a snag or catch a fish that puts up a good fight. When I'm fishing with a spinner I'll rarely go more than a half hour without retying. I think if you retied your line more often, you wouldn't have lost those fish that you mentioned breaking off.
Lighter line is far superior for smaller lures. I use 4lb line for the lighter lures and jigs because it allows me to cast farther and have a better feel for what is happing on the other end of the line. Lighter line helps me make a more natural presentation. If you don't want fish to see your line then I would recommend a fluorocarbon.
I have had very good success with 4lb line. Last week I caught a very fat hard pulling 22" rainbow on 4lb line. I've caught at least a couple dozen 20"+ trout in the last few years. I've also caught some hard pulling smallmouth and striped bass on 4lb line. The best fights on 4lb line have come from fat carp. I'll admit that I have lost a few fish because I was using 4lb line.
#1 When I'm lazy and don't retie often enough I've had fish break my line. This doesn't happen to me very often. The line normally breaks when I'm setting the hook.
#2 It takes much longer to land big fish on light line. This gives the fish more time to work the hook free. I had a very large rainbow do this to me last spring.
#3 Big fish can break you off easier when they wrap you up in a log or other snag. I had a big rainbow do this to me last spring. There was nothing I could do but watch when he pulled my line into som logs.
Overall I think 4lb line works great for many of my fishing situations. I tend to avoid using 4lb line in places with a lot of snags. Braided lines are great for places with lots of snags. I prefer stronger line when I’m using anything but small lures.
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Thanks for all the replies! I really like the idea of tying on the key rings and testing the knots. It looks like it is time to expand my knowlege of knots beyond the only one I have ever used. I look forward to trying all this stuff out. Now does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a thesis finished up when all you want to do is go fishing?
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[cool][#0000ff]The partial spool of Excalibur is on the way. Better warn your wife though. It will be in a small reel box and you don't want her to think you've been "naughty" again.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Good luck.[/#0000ff]
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Now does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a thesis finished up when all you want to do is go fishing?[/reply]
Work and school productivity can be graphed as a curve--and it's directly inverse to the curve representing average daily temperature. As temperature goes up, productivity goes down.
In other workds, if your thesis isn't done by May, pray for an extension until next winter!
lurechucker
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[cool]Chuck, is that YOU? If so, welcome back, bro. Hope to go chasing the big K's with you at U.L. this year. How are the hounds doing?
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Quote: Work and school productivity can be graphed as a curve--and it's directly inverse to the curve representing average daily temperature. As temperature goes up, productivity goes down.
That explains why I'm sitting in my office reading BFT instead of coding data![:/]
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