ok i seen on the live bait poll that the biggest aurgument is that Live Bait equals transporting LIVE FISH?
first i would like to know how then it's ok to catch live crayfish in the same waters as they are cought in and used as bait, but not minnows..
is there not the same danger invalved?
and is it not Transporting live fish when it's crayfish?
So what stops the guy's fishing with live crayfish from Transporting them?
thats my qustions?
and i would like to know just how many fishermen here on utah BFT know just how hard it is to Transport LIVE FISH? and keep them alive
well if you do not know i'll clue you all in!
it's not as easy as one would think to keep fish alive in a buckit!
if someone was going to transport live fish thay have to plan it out!!
they are not just going to go someplace and full a buckit full of fish and drive down the road and plant them somewhere else! it just dont work that way! they need to plan it out they need some way to keep the fish alive for more than 20 min's or so.. That's about how long the oxygen will last in a buckit!
so in order to do that they need to keep the water warm or cold pending on the fish! they need to keep oxygen in the water for the fish to breathe and they need to keep someone from seeing them while they are doing it!! this all would take some planing on there part...
inless they are useing a livewell on a boat.. then it would make it a lot easer for them.. but even then not as easy as one would think.. pro bass fishermen have bass die on them in there livewells more often than some would think.. not only that the pump on the boat needs to be left on the whole time the fish are in the well.. most of them pump's are set up to pump lake water into the well and out the side of the boat.. so once the baot is out of the water it is no longer pumping fresh water into the well.. again the fish now do not have a sorce of Oxygen.. so there again planing will be needed.. some kind of aerator needs to be used to keep the fish alive!
so i come back to the Qustion how does fishing with bait taken from the water your fishing in, turn in Transporting Live Fish?
it does not in less the persen is planing to transport live fish from the start! and in that case they are going to do it just like someone planing to robe a bank.. no one will be able to stop them tell it allredy happened..
in no way Do i surport the Transporeting Of live fish..
i do how ever surport the fishing with live bait!!
[signature]
[size 1]OK, its time to get real here.[/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]Your posts finish with, "there are no stupid qustions!! just stupid people that ask them.. like me!! artificial intelligence is no mach for my natural stupidity." Those are your words quoted exactly.[/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]This part of your posts is certainly dead-on accurate.[/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]Transporting live fish is a piece of cake, EXTREMELY EASY! Anyone can use a bucket and a bubbler, or a boat livewell that recirculates or has a bubbler. Both will work for at least several hours, long enough to transport fish from one drainage to another, especially with minnows and other "bait fish." Live fish are far different than crayfish. If you can't see that, you're blind.[/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]Learn to fish, and you won't need live bait. Heck, you might even challenge yourself, learn something, and become a sportsman. Quit whining about not being able to use live minnows everywhere and learn to fish.[/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]Your kind of thoughts are what give PETA and other environmentalist-wackos fuel to complain about caring, responsible fishermen, who for the most part, want to protect and manage fisheries. I ask again, why does anyone need live bait for freshwater sport fishing? For any fishing, anywhere?[/size]
[size 1][/size]
[size 1]By the way, there's a little blue box at the bottom of the post box that says "Check Spelling."[/size]
[signature]
ok let's get real Jim!
i have seen better fishermen then you go to the live bait not because they can't catch fish any other way.. it's because they just like useing live bait.. if it's not for you thats cool with me some do some don't..
AND BTW I think the Possession of a Aerator while fishing or even on the water should be treated as Transporting live fish! in any state that transporting fish is illegal..
oh and thanks for showing me where the spell check button is i did not know it was there..[
]
[signature]
Way to go fuzzy ....[
]. I see no reason a person shouldn't be able to get a bit animated on a subject they feel strongly about. If a person disagrees with your position then, by all means, they have the same perogitive to state their case. Jim gave you all kinds of ammo to get a pissing contest going here. You chose to ignore the insults and keep things in perspective. Kudos to you.
[signature]
Let's throw aside the actual fishing with live bait issue. I don't think it is necassary, but to each his own.
The big picture here is the increased possibility and probability of live bait being dumped into other waters. You give people an inch, and they take a mile. The people that malicously transport live fish will continue to do it anyway... It's the people that are ignorant to the law that I would be most worried about.
John Smith traps his chubs at Strawberry, but the fishing is slow, so he moves down to Rockport (I am not sure if there is a chub population here or not... just an example) to see if the chubs work there. He gets done for the day and dumps the bucket of live chubs into the reservoir. Not good.
There are many fragile fisheries around here. The introduction of a new fish could potentially crash a fishery. I don't know about you, but I would rather my license fee and my tax dollars go to improving our fisheries.... Not poisening and rebuilding them.
Just my 2 cents. [
]
And by the way.... Where is the spell check... I still don't see it! [
]
[signature]
Crawfish do not need to be in water to stay alive. Years ago my daughters cought one at Island Park in Idaho. We brought it home and put it in a fish bowl with no water. It lived for over 2 months. I finally put it out in the garbage, it was still alive.
[signature]
Fuzzy I can see both sides of it and in some lakes like Powell or the Gorge or Willard or even Utah lake live minnows could be used but like some say the few bad apples spoil the barrel.......
.
[signature]
[cool][#0000ff]Hey Ron, you and I have fished other states that permit live bait, and we know that it can greatly add to the catch and enjoyment...at times. I personally would really like to see the law relaxed (or modified) to allow SELECTIVE use of live bait on some waters.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]HOWSOMEVER...you know it ain't gonna happen in Utah...at least in the forseeable future. Might as well petition for lower license fees and increased trout limits. No way. While you're at it, let's take another swing at the good old corn rules. Ain't gonna happen neither. Bad grammar but truth.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Now, why don'tcha just go fishin' and quit trying to stir the pot. Poor Wormandbobber is probably frothin' at the mouth.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
i hear you dude [cool]
but maybe if some of us stay at the heals of the DWR on this and other issues some good could come out of it!
like Jim's snaging mac's thing up at FG
MY live bait thing..
and as always the BB thing?
maybe they might even pick up on the Aerator thing and look in to banning them? who know's what might happen if we bring some of our issues to them they might pick up some usefull suff!!
i my self would realy like to hear from a DWR person what there reasoning is for the use of crayfish and not minnows realy is.. that's not asking to much..
and yes i have allready asked the DWR more times then should be needed.. no ancer ever comes back!
i'll STFU now ok! [
]
[signature]
[cool][#0000ff]Anybody who has had responsibility for running a family or a business is used to the need for making decisions and coming up with answers to questions. That's why a lot of us are frustrated by the seeming silence from DWR when we have questions and want decisions. In fairness to DWR, though, there are no individuals who have the power or authority to just pop off an answer or to change policy. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Tom Pettingill recently retired from DWR. He was one of the few allies we had for the warm water fisheries. He did not have the power to wave a magic wand and make all the changes, but he listened and did what he could to try to get obvious changes made...or at least get them into the system.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Things are in a state of flux within DWR these days, as new people assume new positions. Everybody is still trying to get a handle on their own little world, and most of them are not focused on keeping radical anglers happy. The best/worst we can do right now, by making a lot of noise, is alienating folks who might someday be able to listen and help.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]I mentioned in another post that there is a proposal within DWR to divide management of Utah fisheries into two parts...basically trout and non-trout. The non-trout division would be responsible for collecting input and information on several select waters and on the non-trout species within them. As a clear picture emerges, and potential positive changes are suggested, then those things would be reviewed and processed. [/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]It is a different matter to make DWR aware of violations and/or potentially detrimental fisheries practices (snagging)...than it is to set up a lobby to get existing regulations changed. Once something is a matter of law and is written into the proclamation (no live bait), it takes a lot more than continuous sniping to get the whole DWR behind changing everything.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Don't overlook any opportunity to show up at meetings and to state your case, but don't keep using BFT as a place to post polls and throw rocks at DWR. It does nothing to further your cause and only gets you the rep as being a rabble rouser.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]In the meantime, we are catching plenty of fish on lures and dead minnows. That's all we got, so make the best of it.[/#0000ff]
[signature]
I hear ya. Its the state we live in, though. It makes no sense to me, either. In fact I just asked that same question to a DWR officer at Scofield yesterday, and he couldn't answer it.
Minnows aren't easy to transport. I've tried keeping non game fish alive in Oregon for use on big Lings and it just doesn't work. Unless your there changing the water in the bucket every 10 minutes or so, they go belly up in no time. I know it's the same for fresh water minnows, too.
Ban air pumps and you'd take out most possibilites of fish being transported. Plain and simple. That is a great idea.
The big problem is that some very stupid people will still move fish to other waters. But that already happens, doesn't it?
It makes no sense to me at all. It honestly doesn't harm anything. It'd only help some fisheries out. But hey, try getting the people in high places to realize that.
[signature]
Fish with much more difficult to maintain water prefrences than chubs, shiners and fathead minnows are transported thousands of miles every day. I worked in the pet business for a few years, and watched as dozens of fish were unloaded out of a few inches of water in a plastic bag. Fish that were three time zones away the day before. It ain't that tough. And the ones who are going to do it, will find a way. If you think they need an aerator to accomplish a transplant, you're wrong. The DWR used to transport fish in milk pails by horseback into the Uintas.
I would not have a problem with someone catching a nongame minnow at the water they are fishing, placing it on the hook, and using it as bait. The problem is that some fools cannot leave well enough alone. Golden shiners are not native to this state. They were introduced in Kolob and New Castle by people who wanted to use them as live bait. They are a disaster. Should they be legal as bait because they are in those waters? Absolutely not. The next thing you know, some fool would put them in every water that they want to use live bait in. I can live without using live bait, if it means that we don't have to spend every dollar that the DWR takes in to control the problems that illegal transplants cause.
People are people. If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. If they are allowed to use live minnows for bait, somebody will start transplanting even more types of fish into even more waters of this state. Some folks think that might be a good thing. I don't. I don't want to lose fisheries for years and years while the rough fish have to be removed. I don't want to watch as fisheries crash, or boom and bust. It ain't worth it.
Fishrmn
Let's just give it up & let it rest. Live minnows aren't gonna happen in Utah & for my part - if ya gotta use live minnows to catch fish ya really got no damn business fishing.
[signature]
Oh yes Geezer!!! That's what I mean! Extremely well-put.
[signature]
crayfish and minnows are apples and oranges--crayfish don't offer near as big a threat as baitfish. Crayfish won't ruin fisheries; they may change a fishery, but they don't ruin them like bait fishes.
[signature]
Minnows will happen in Utah eventually. How many years ago was it that ice fishing and using more than 1 pole were stricktly forbiden? Things change. This will, too.
I don't think Fuzzy, or myself, or any other person here who'd like to see live bait get used wants it because of not being able to catch fish. Personally, I've caught 10# LMB, Rainbow, Albino, and Brown Trout. I don't even want to think about the amount of fish I've caught over my lifetime. That's kind of a scary number. And none of them on live minnows. Not a one.
Just think about this. Is it better to use a live minnow to catch a big fish, or is it better to allow people to keep snagging them? Snaggings a lot more harmful than a minnow would ever be.
[signature]
While snagging is wrong in every way (except for carp), you can't say using live minnows is worse. Snagging will effect individual fish... a new species of minnow that was illegally transplanted into the water could cause the entire fishery to crash.
You said it yourself... you have caught several large fish WITHOUT the use of live bait... So why would you change it up?
[signature]
If the minnows are already present it isn't bad. Snagging the breeding individuals in any given water isn't good. And, unfortunately, I've witnessed it enough to know it happens all too much. The entire issue with minnows is the transportation. End that, and I believe it could be done safely. Either way a lot of places are still going to get new fish species. Just last week I found White bass at the mouth of Big Cottonwood Canyon. I'm not too happy about that still.
One reason why I'd like to see live bait legalized is that it would make it easier for younger anglers to catch larger fish. I know without my dad I'd be out catching little planters now and calling them huge. Not all kids are privilidged enough to be able to fish all that much. And any way to get them into a few more fish, and keep the funding going for every water around the state, is worth it.
Plus it would be a pretty good management tool. I wouldn't recomend it at every water in the state, either. Just waters where there are already large fish numbers, like Starvation or the Flaming George, where there is a need for additional pressure. I know if fish numbers were lower in both of those lakes their fish quality would get better, and species like Kokes would make a comeback in FG.
[signature]
"[font "Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"][black][size 1]The entire issue with minnows is the transportation. End that, and I believe it could be done safely."
Quote
[size 4]But that's the problem... By legalizing it, even in select reservoirs, it will increase the number of occurences. To try and stop it from happening there would need to be a CO at the gate leaving the reservoir to check everyone to make sure they aren't taking their live bait with them. That will cost us, the license holders and tax payers, a ton of money. I just don't think it is possible.
I too have seen people snagging large spawning game fish. It makes me madder than hell [mad]. But to your point... these young fisherman that would be allowed to use live bait would have a better chance of catching these same fish. And chances are they will harvest them as well.
I agree it is important to get more and more kids into fishing and catching fish. But let's teach them to be fisherman. Teach them about where fish hold, and why. Teach them about water temp and how it effects the fish. Teach them about the natural forage in the water they are fishing, and what imitates it and how to use it. Teach them how to properly handle fish, and responsible harvest. These are the things that fishing is all about. This is what I love about fishing.
You're right, all kids are not as fortunate as people like you and me.... We had good teachers. That's why I am happy to see the classes the DWR are putting together for the kids. Like the one TD, TB, and Hookjaw Brimhall participated in. Or Bassrods with C.A.S.T. for kids. (Sorry if I forgot anyone) Although these activities are heavily reliant on volunteer work, I wouldn't mind one bit if more of my license fee or my tax dollars went into programs like these. There's the old saying "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to fish and he'll eat for a life time." (or however it goes [] ) Well, if these programs work, and I think they will, then there wil be a new saying..."Teach a kid to fish, and he'll teach his (or her) kids to fish."
That's what's going to keep people in the fishing community, and the DWR funded.
[/size][/size][/black][/font]
[signature]