Fishing Forum

[cool][#0000ff]We had our April meeting of the Utah Anglers Coalition yesterday. In putting together the minutes of the meeting, I see a few items on the agenda that might be of interest to BFTers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]1. Strawberry Anglers Assn. will be having a 10 year celebration party on June 5. Free food and door prizes. Should be a great gathering of both government and non government folks who are Strawberry fans. I will post more details after receiving the writeup from Jim Carter, head of SAA.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]2. There will be a Utah Lake Fishing Festival, June 9 (free fishing day) at the Provo Boat Harbor. Again, I will make a separate post with more details when they are available.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]3. The results of PCB testing on other species of Utah Lake fish (besides carp) should be available within a month or so. Extensive sampling of many fish, of different ages and sizes, were done mainly on the most often consumed species....like walleyes, white bass and channel cats. The tests have been done at Texas A&M University.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]4. More info on Mercury testing and advisories. The baseline safe levels of mercury, in "angled fish" has been set at 0.3 ppm. That is when advisories for consumption levels are issued. Once the level reaches 1.0 ppm, there is a ban on consumption and commercial fish are removed from sale. Interesting that there is a threefold difference. That is mostly to protect tuna and other high mercury industries from the high baseline levels of mercury present in their products.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]5. The carp removal program for Utah Lake is moving forward. The plan is to remove an average of almost 50,000 pounds of carp per day. There will be several different kinds of netting and trapping operations used. The two big issues will be (1) what to do with the "bycatch"...walleyes, white bass, catfish and other game species taken in the traps. (2) what to do with 50,000 pounds of dead carp every day. That's gonna take a lot of hungry cats or a BIG garbage disposal.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]6. Strawberry Reservoir. In spite of quite a few anglers wanting the rainbows to be included in the slot limit, that will likely not happen. There are no plans to make Strawberry a trophy fishery for rainbows. The rainbows are in there for anglers who want to be able to harvest a few fish, while observing the slot limit on cutts. And, even without the 'bows being in the slot limit, plenty of them get to trophy size in the lake. No need to fix something that ain't broke.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]7. Yuba Reservoir. Plans are to open Yuba to perch harvest in January '08. However, the initial limit is proposed to be only 10 perch. That is an issue to be further discussed at upcoming RAC meetings.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]8. May is RAC meeting month. This is the time to bring your proposals and grievances before the RAC group that represents the area or waters (species) you want to cover. If whatever you want to see changed is not introduced during the May meetings, it will not be reviewed for consideration at the September voting meetings.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff][url "http://www.wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/pdf/07_rac_schedule.pdf"]HERE IS A LINK TO THE SCHEDULE[/url][/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]We are in the central zone. The meeting for our area is in Springville, on May 22. Maybe we can carpool if a few of us want to show up, either to voice issues or just to observe the process.[/#0000ff]
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Thanks for the update Pat.
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Such wonderful information! Thank you for posting your notes. I prize your efforts and am a better-informed angler because of your willingness to attend these meetings then post your notes. I bet everyone here feels the same.
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Thanks fof the info Pat.

I am looking forward to the PCB test results.

So in each region, do they only discuss waters in that region? If so, is there some type of boundary map out there? I would like to hear anything said about Willard. []
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[cool][#0000ff]I have been unable to find a map of the region breakdowns, or the waters in each of them. I have a request in to get one, if it exists.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I suspect that Willard will probably fall into the central region, but it may be far enough north to be in the north region. I will find out for you.[/#0000ff]
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Thank you sir! []
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Great report, thank you for the updates. Sounds like there is a lot of interesting stuff coming down the pipeline in the upcoming months. That is good info on the mercury. I might have to skip the tunafish sandwiches in the future. Thank you again for keeping us informed.




FWIW, Willard is in the Northern region.
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[cool][#0000ff]Happy to do what I can. Glad you appreciate it.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It was just as well that we didn't try to fit you in yesterday. We were short on member attendance and had a bunch of issues to cover. We still had stuff to cover when everybody had to boogie at the scheduled cutoff time.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I was glad to get clarification on the PCB testing though. I had been hearing mixed reports on what was actually going on...or not going on. Once we have something definitive we will have the ammunition to launch some kind of campaign for the state to enact stricter pollution laws...or maybe even some kind of cleanup program. Yeah, right. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Drain Utah Lake, scoop out all of the sediment down to bedrock, flush it a couple of times with fresh water and then refill it with snowmelt. Then restock it with trout and June suckers. And, while we are at it, depopulate "Happy Valley" and shut down all the farms and industrial elements that contribute to pollution. That will make it ready for a bunch of new pioneers, crickets and seagulls.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Man, I gotta quit snortin' that Power Bait. [/#0000ff]
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[cool][#0000ff]I just received this map from Roger Wilson, of DWR. He also verified that Willard is in the Northern Region.[/#0000ff]
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The "bycatch." That is what concerned me all along. I like Utah lake the way it is now. With the exception of pollutants of course. Carp are harmless to me and the game fish population is in excellent condition carp or no carp. I was concerned carp removal might harmfully disturb largemouths, bluegills, walleye, channel cats, and white bass. [size 1] I[/size][black][size 2]f so i strongly oppose the whole carp operation.
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Hey Pat,

I'm not sure how much knowledge you have regarding how they're going to go about plucking 50,000 lbs. of carp (or "crap," however you choose to spell it) per day out of UL without seriously injuring the numbers of other species in the lake? Are you at all concerned that populations of walleye, white bass, largemouth, and other species might suffer along with the aggressive attempts to harvest as many carp as possible?

The way I see it, here are the positives of removing that many carp out of UL: [ol] [li]Hopefully the vegetation around the edges and shallower portions of the lake will improve with so many of the vegetation uprooters being removed[/li] [li]With increased vegetation, might we expect a bit better water quality and clarity with more plants doing their filtering and anchoring of the soil during wind?[/li] [li]We should see a big decrease in polution in UL, right? I mean if carp are carrying a lot of PCBs and mercury in their flesh, wouldn't the removal of tons and tons of carp each day result in substantial amounts of the contaminants being removed from the lake as well?[/li][/ol]Now the divantages: [ol] [li]With the removal of that many carp, that means less of their offspring for other fish to feed on[/li] [li]Could large numbers of other species be caught and killed as the result of the aggressive carp removal?[/li][/ol]Pat, I would really like to hear your take on this, as well as Doggonefishin's and others who may have something possibly scientific and helpful to relate.

Thanks.
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[cool][#0000ff]The positive side of the carp removal operation, as far as the "bycatch" species goes, is that this is not like a rotenone treatment or a gill netting operation. Capture is not necessarily terminal for them.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As I understand it, most of the fish will be captured by trap nets or trapping structures installed along the shoreline similar to what native american salmon anglers use. In short, anything other than carp can easily be released back into the lake, mostly unharmed.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It ain't like there has been no non-angler harvest before. The commercial carp seining operations that have worked Utah Lake for decades have killed bajillions of non-carp species. They scoop up whatever gets within their nets and the fish all get crowded together. By the time they get around to sorting out the "good guys", many of the walleyes and white bass have been crushed and croaked. Cats are a bit hardier, but probably some mortality there too.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]That has always been a part of the equation at Utah Lake, whether anglers knew or cared about it or not. And, the non-carp species seem to have done pretty well for themselves, except during periods of severe drought.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I suspect that a DWR supervised carp eradication program will be less hazardous to our "catchables" than the now defunct commercial carp seining operation.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I almost have to laugh at the amount of money and energy being poured into this "try anything" program. It is impossible to remove all of the carp, or even enough to make a difference. It is what I call ANN...Another Nice Notion. It will be like trying to empty Lake Superior with an eyedropper. Or, to use an expression I picked up at the meeting...like trying to stab a marble.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There have been many attempts at carp eradication around the country over the years. Even very aggressive campaigns, including poison, on much smaller lakes have just about all ended in failure. All it takes is one pair of fertile carp and there will be an explosion within 3-5 years.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Attached is a picture of a 5 pound carp I harvested for bait recently. It weighed about 5 pounds. The egg mass (not fully developed) weighed about 1.5 pounds, and in the picture you can see that the eggs are tiny. Uncountable. In Utah Lake there are millions of carp with millions of eggs ready to spawn right now. By the time DWR kicks off their "aggressive" removal program, they will already be two or three years behind where they are right now.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I personally think that the removal should be an annual event, at spawning time. There should be a series of snow fence type barriers erected around large areas of the lake, in water shallow enough that most fish will stay out but in which carp will come to spawn. Leave closeable openings at regular intervals, to allow the carp in, but have one-way gates through which they cannot return. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There will be about a two week period when the "pens" will fill to overflowing with carp. Arrangements could be made in advance for front end loaders and trucks to scoop the carp and truck them out to a landfill...or the desert...downwind from human noses.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]In other words, use the carp's spawning craziness to capture them, remove them before they can spawn, and make it a mass removal process. Otherwise, the "ding-a-ding" removal process will not even keep pace with natural reproduction.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]Whatever is done, and however many carp are removed, it is all good. True, carp fry are a major food item for the predator species each year...but only for about two to three months. They grow so fast that only the largest cats and walleyes can snarf them by the time they are six months old.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]Each carp removed will potentially help improve the habitat. And, each carp removed will lower the lake level by a minuscule amount. Get real. Unless all the carp are removed, Utah Lake will always be Utah Lake.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]Have I been suitably vague?[/#0000ff]
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TD gave a pretty good synopsis on the issue and the questions you raised. I might add a couple additional points.

1. "Hopefully the vegetation around the edges and shallower portions of the lake will improve with so many of the vegetation uprooters being removed" This is correct. If the eradication works to get carp numbers down, (big if) this vegetation will provide better habitat for GAME FISH fry to live and better young of year survival, and better fishing for the species we like to catch.

2. "Could large numbers of other species be caught and killed as the result of the aggressive carp removal?" Someone working on the program told me that the open water fish like white bass may be caught in fairly high numbers if the seine nets are run in the open water as has been done in the past. Fish like LMB that hug weedy and rocky structure would be infrequently caught. It therefore would seem that some species would possibly be supressed some and others hardly at all.

3. "I mean if carp are carrying a lot of PCBs and mercury in their flesh, wouldn't the removal of tons and tons of carp each day result in substantial amounts of the contaminants being removed from the lake as well" Apparently, there is enough PCB in the mud that carp removal will have a negligible effect on the total PCB contamination.
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Nice update TD. Now ya gonna let them take away my play toys? Fishing them carp is too much fun. But I have to agree, cleaning them out of UL is like spitting into the wind and expecting no splash back. Hopefully they will try and be gentle on the other species.
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One other tidbit for consideration. You will hear guys talk about "biomass" and "carrying capacity". The biologists that work on Utah Lake tell us that 90% of the fish biomass is carp. If the eradication program reduces the carp numbers by say, 50%, then that leaves a void in the the amount of fish that the lake can hold. Since our beloved June sucker doesn't seem too capable of rapid reproduction at the moment, it is reasonable that game fish will step up and utilize the added groceries, and increase their population (and/or size) up to 50% of the biomass, and with that, give us much better fishing.

At least that is how the principle is written up in your average biology 101 textbook.
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