Fishing Forum

I was at the tackle shop, and seen these braided nylon loops that look much like a chinese finger trap, and shrink tube. Do these work? It looks to me like a heavier fish might just pull it clean off the end of your line....However, I like the idea of having the ability to make a loop to loop conection for a leader rather then tying knots.
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[left][font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3][cool]Hi there Dubie - is this what you are making reference too? [/size][/green][/font][/left] [left][font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]I use a leader loop to loop to a short length of heavy mono. However, I am not really fond of that type of connection. Not only does it catch on my guidelines, vegetation but it is also like having a hinge effect in one's line. I use this quick connect out of necessity as I really have difficulty tying a nail knot to my fly line. Hard for me to see in bright sunlight. Ah to have the eyes of a young eagle again.[][/size][/green][/font] [/left] [center]
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[black][size 3]To attach leader to a fly line, you only have to do it once, maybe twice during the life of the fly line.[/size][/black]
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[size 3]I use a nail knot, but I make one small change to the regular nail knot. I push a needle into the end of the fly line, pass it out about 1/4 inch past the end, and then tie the nail knot.[/size]
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[size 3]If I really get fancy, I will wrap the entire connection with fly tying thread. This gives the connection a almost uninterrupted connection.[/size]
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[size 3]The butt section, connecting to the fly line is usually about 20 or 30 lb test, and I attach the rest of my leader material to that butt section using a blood knot.[/size]
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[size 3]For the attachment of tippet material, I use a surgeon's knot, easy and fast to tie, and just as strong.[/size]
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[black][size 3]I used to call it my $10.00 knot, and took many fly lines home from work with me to incorporate it. Everyone that used it, liked it.[/size][/black]
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Dubie,

I think I know what you are asking..but not sure...

A lot of the newer fly lines come with a looped end so that you can do a loop to loop connection between your fly line and your leader. As I said, a lot do.. but not all.. in the case where a fly line does not have a looped end manufacturers have put out a "fix" like the one you describe. I have seen several discussions on this after market "fix" and most seem to think it is not very reliable.

With that in mind what I did was take a short piece (10" - 12" or shorter) of heavier mono line (20#) and connected it to my fly line with a nail knot. At the other end of this I tied a perfection loop that gives me the loop to loop connection between the fly line and the leader. Here is an example of how to tie the [url "http://www.killroys.com/knots/perfecti.htm"]perfection loop[/url]...

Hope this helps....

MacFly
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[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3]Hi there macfly55 - I have all my fly lines set up in the manner you described. Just read my reply to Dubie and found that I said I use a loop to loop from my leader to my tippet. Duh nooo! [blush] I connect my tippet using a surgeons knot. I use the loop to loop to attach my leader to a short length of heavy mono.[/size][/green][/font]
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This has come up A LOT, so here is my take.
The braided ends you are talking about can and will work, but you need to put a dab of super glue and be sure and use the shrink wrap to keep it from fraying. BUT! they are heavy and can soak up water thus sink the tip of your line.

The second choice is as Macfly stated. Go one further and attach a leader using a nail knot or as Saberfish said a needle knot *(note at the end on the needle knot) right to your line. As it wears out, cut it off to a 4" to 6" piece and put a perfection loop in it (Surgeon loop will cock it to the side, but a perfection is straight). Now you have a butt section.
* there are some lines on the shelfs, "SYLK" by Cortland for one, that have an inner core that will prevent you from sticking a needle through the middle of the line.
Needle knot is very nice because there is NOTHING to get caught in the guides. Smooth connection and there is a tool called the SHIMAZAKI KIT that makes a needle knot sooooo easy for us with bad eyes. Stick the needle through the middle of the line like Saberfish said, thread a leader. When you got about 6" to 8" of leader (butt section) left, scuff it with sandpaper and add Zap-A-Gap and pull. It will stop when you hit the glue and trust me, the line will break before this will (Tried and Tested by me). Clip your tag of leader and I coat with Knot Scense also. But you could wrap Bright colored thread around the line before adding knot scense for an indicator.

Finally, the last suggestion is to fold the line itself over and form a small loop then secure with thread, glue and knot scense. I prefer this over all because I do switch leaders a lot (furled, to special hand tied, to store bot tapered to straight mono for deep nymphing)
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I like the looping the fly line idea...but I'll play around with different knots this weekend. I tried tying one leader to the line that came with the little kit that came with my fly reel, but when I pulled on it to check the security, it just stripped the coating off the fly line, and I was left with a piece of leader in one hand, and stripped fly line in the other. I don't know if this was due to bad tying, or cheap fly line, or what. I did actualy buy some weight forward line from the tackle shop to actualy use...One week left to figure this all out if I'm going to try flies on opening day...[]
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..from one new fly fisherman to another.. I will tell you quite honestly that some of the knots used in fly fishing take time and practice to make work properly.. especially knots you wont use all the time such as the nail knot..

to this day my perfection loop starts out small but by the time I pull it tight it is big.. lol.. it still works but would like to keep them a little smaller..

MacFly
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I have used the Cortland Braided loops a number of times. With every one of them I have eventually (keyword eventually) had to replace them because the braid started breaking apart due to abrasion or more commonly that a gap would develop between the braided loop and then end of the loop. Maybe just a 1/16th of an inch. I presume that excess flexing at this point leads to the braid to start breaking. This generally takes a season or longer to happen. Putting a new braided loop on is not a big deal.

I also use FG's method of using a small loop. I like that best so far.

Here is a really simple knot that a number of experienced fishermen swear by. Use a leader with a loop tied in the end of it. A perfection loop is good for that part. Then tie the end of the fly line on to the leader loop with a Lap Knot. Very quick and easy and does not use much leader tip to form.

[url "http://www.realknots.com/knots/sheetb.htm#Xschootsteek"]http://www.realknots.com/knots/sheetb.htm#Xschootsteek[/url]

I have not used this knot because all of my fly lines currently have loops formed in them as do all of my leaders.
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Well, I couldn't make a nail knot work for the life of me (they kept slipping right off my fly line). I finaly broke down, tied a perfection loop in my leader and the tip of my fly line, looped them together, and put a small piece of shrink-wrap around the not to keep in nice and smooth...It seems to hold up better then any of the other knots I failed to tie, and it casts my yarn with the performance described in my last post on "Now what?" thread.
Knowing my luck, I'll get over to my fishing hole on Saturday, and slam my rod in the car door before even starting. Did the exact same thing with the new ugly stick I won a few years ago. Hopefuly I'll have a photo or two for you guys next week .
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Stay away from the braided nylon loops...I wouldnt trust that type of connection. Nailknot or internal Nail works very well..Some ppl use a nail to tie the knot. I like to use a folded out paperclip...or the inside part of a ink pen.....When ive been in a bind Ive used a small twig from a bush LOL. After working in flyshops and tying thousands of nail knots..I can do it with my eyes closed! It might not be a bad idea to keep one of the braided loops in you flyvest for a temp fix. As far as whipping a loop in your flyline..I use this..but mainly for saltwater...because when done right its a very strong connection
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[black][size 3]When you tie the nail knot, don't touch the fly line except to hold the knot in place. To tighten the knot, pull on both ends of the leader material.[/size][/black]
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[size 3]This will plull the knot tight, almost cutting into the fly line covering (some lines).[/size]
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[size 3]To tie the nail knot, I use the plastic tube of a Q-tip with the ends cut off. Having these laying around, and in my fishing equipment, there is always one handy.[/size]
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[size 3]Keep working on the nail or needle knot, you'll get it. You won't regret learning to tie it.[/size]
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I use the Fast Knot tool. Comes as just the Knot tool (which I have at home)
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And the Multi Tool which is Re-Sharpen Clippers, eye cleaner, hook sharpener and nail knot tool. I carry this on my Landyard at all times.
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You can get these anywhere, even Wally World.
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[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3][cool]The Fast Tie gismo works real well. The sheep bend knot that Scruffy_Fly mentioned was one of the required knots that a Boy Scout had to learn. Also the square knot, timber hitch, sheep shank, clove hitch & slip knot to name a few. But the again that was in the olden days. [][/size][/green][/font]
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[font "Poor Richard"][green][size 3][cool]The Fast Tie gismo works real well. The sheep bend knot thet Scruffy_Fly mentioned was one of the required knots that a Boy Scout had to learn. Also the square knot, timber hitch, sheep shank, clove hitch & slip knot to name a few. But they again that was in the olden days. [][/size][/green][/font] [/reply]
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Well, I was never a Boyscout...Grew up too poor to join clubs or teams. I just fished alot . Heading out tommorow. I was thinking of maybe hitting up a guy near my place. He has 18 ponds, stocked with arctic char, trout of every kind, pearch, bass, pike, and about anything else you might want to catch. If the creek don't work, it would be the place to go to learn
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I have that tool and love it. I have used it to tie loops on if I remember right. I just stared using the braided loops and so far I am pleased. Caught a 19" that fought long hard with leaps runs and stayed deep Saturday morn.

I am trying the sink line that you buy to and weight to your line, they have the loops in the kit. I added that heavy sink line to my sinktip line on my 4/5wt to get me deeper and the convienience of the loops for changing is great.

I also tried the davey knot, not the way he does it in the video, but ending up with the same knot and it seemed to work well.
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I buy them by the 5 pack, I have only seen them in two packs and 5 packs.

I go with the 5 packs now after my first two pack.

I like them, I do cut them shorter. I dont care for the full lenth, it feals akwards but when cut shorter the have a more natural feal to them.

My knotts are not are not as well as they could be, but for a novis I would highly recomend those chinese finger traps, I haven had one come loose yet in the last 6 years.

I have used the screw in eyeletts but they eventuly poke a hole in the fly line and if you dont catch it in time you are headed for a break.

If you would like to see how mine looks after I have mounted it I will be happy to take a picture and post it here for you...
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I wanted to show you a pic of a fish that was caught using loop to loop with your chinese finger trap type loop end.
[center][url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/6675/cat/500/ppuser/89"][/url][/center] [center]36 inch[/center] [center]42 lbs[/center] [center]took third place in the state of michigan the year it was caught for largest carp caught and released[/center] [center]the fly rod was a number 8, and yes I was spooled several times in the 45 minutes it took to land.[/center]
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Ive tried them out there not bad at all just shorten them a bit and make sure you don't touch the flame to the mono. put a little extra shrink tube on too.
Ive caught god knows how many fish on the same one and its never failed. The only way it fail is due to a break or the shrink tube.
It simple the more pressure you apply the tighter it holds.
Ive used only two this year on each rod. I'm a weirdo and like to change my leader material every time I go out... and I re do my knots every few fish. They have made my life a little easier.
Do I like compared to a nail knot yep because I am lazy.
do I like its feel of casting Ill deal with it. its hardly noticeable at all.
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