[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]Tis the time of year that I look back on the great times I used to have in the '80s after hunting season, chasing the great Browns the Gorge used to have.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]Although there are surely a few left all regular Gorge fisherman know that the Brown size and population is nowhere close to the "Glory" days. So since these are discussion forums I would be curious to know what everyones opinions are of the decline of the Browns.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]Here is mine. Back in '86 I caught my largest Brown 19lbs while trolling with my dad by FireHole, I was 12 at the time. If I remember correctly during the '80s the Gorge used to be full of Chubs and they were the primary food sorce for Macks and Browns. Then came along a vicarious little predator known as Smallmouth Bass. I remember my dad telling me that fishing at the Gorge would never be the same for Trout when Smallies were introduced. [/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]Once the smallies were introduced the Chub Population took a major hit because they no longer could escape to the shallows without major prededation by the smallies. This took such a toll on the chub population there are very few if any Chubs left in the Gorge. The smallies also have taken a major toll on the Crayfish since the '80s which was another food source for the Browns. After the smallies were introduced the Browns size and numbers started to decrease to what we have today. The Macks also started to suffer but Kokanee were introduced and the Macks eventually turned to the Kokes as a new food sorce.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]So IMHO it was the Small Mouth Bass that took the toll on the Browns at the Gorge. Was it worth it? Some say yes some will say no.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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One thing to me is that they the DWR does not plant browns as much if at all any more.....
Back in the 80's they put many 100,000 of browns in there but not now so to say the bass made them go away no not by them self....
But you could say that bass lake trout and lack of planting and over fishing of the ones that was there is all at fault....
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]I agree with the lack of stocking, but why continue to stock a species that would not survive the environment that was created?[/size][/#808000][/font]
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What fish are you talking about that they are stocking????
And I think the bass was put in there back in the 70's or 60's but I could be wrong...
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Here's what I've concluded from all the theories over the years. It comes down to the age of the lake, chubs, sagebrush (yes, chubs used it for spawning), and competition from other fish (bass and those damn, vicious lakers).
When a lake is newly flooded, as the Gorge was in the late 60's and 70's, the food chain kinda goes nuts for a decade or so. Browns grew at a highly unusual rate because the chubs thrived, food was plentiful, and predators were few. There used to be huge schools of chubs when I first came here, and browns would actually "boil" in them, like wipers or stripers on shad, though not quite that spectacular. Even rainbows thrived and grew at alarming rates. There's still guys who tell some amazing stories. I only scratched the surface of it in the late 70's and early 80's, and still caught some browns over 20 pounds. (26 was tops-released 'em all!)
As the lake aged, chubs were both consumed by larger fish, and also lost their ability to reproduce effectively because flooded sage brush began to decay in their spawning areas. (Some say that is the biggest factor in the eventual chub crash.) So growth rates slowed on browns, they began to die out because they don't live long to begin with, and the other predators (lakers, then bass) also emerged to begin competing with browns.
About 15 years ago, a bunch of local businesses and residents proposed a Christmas tree stocking program to try and reestablish spawning areas for the chub. Despite all private funding and labor, spear headed by the Collett family at Flaming Gorge Lodge, the DWR said "NO". (surprise!)
So here we are today, with a fantastic Mack and Kokanee fishery, but only because kokes and rainbows are stocked into the lake to keep the vicious predators fed. If that ever stops, we got nothin'.
Oh yeah, it's loaded with little bass and big carp too
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I personally don't think the bass in the Gorge are worth having, but there are hundreds, if not thousands, of guys flying all around the lake in their bass rockets every weekend that would disagree. They also make for a good kids fishery because they're numerous and easy to catch. And they're here to stay, so I don't worry about them either way. What impact they have on the overall fishery I'm not sure about either. They do eat a lot of crayfish, but maybe that's what crayfish are for. On the selfish side for me, they keep more people away from the lake trout! And I have first-hand proof that macks will eat a bass now and then, though they're not a significant part of their diet. I digress.
Browns? No chubs + too much competition from other fish + normal growth rates + short life span = 5 pounder is a big one now. What a time it was though! Trolling all night at mach-2, freezing to death, nearly crashing into the bank, waiting for a bite.
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]I was talking about Browns.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]These are the numbers that I found on Browns Stocked at the Gorge by Utah for the last 4 years. I can't find any numbers for Wyoming but the Game and Fish does not measure numbers of Browns at the Gorge that I know of.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]2007 - 27037 3" browns [/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]2006 - 0[/size][/#808000][/font]
[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]2005 - 0[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]I agree with you about the lack of stocking Browns at least recently. But why would the DWR spend the money to stock browns in the Gorge when they don't survive well?[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]Maybe it was because I was young, but it seemed to me the browns went away very rapidly once the small mouth population was well established in the late '80s.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[cool][#0000ff]I was around from the mid 70s through the mid 80s and witnessed both the peak and beginning of the decline of the browns. That was when brownaholics came in from all over the world to fish at night in subfreezing temperatures, trolling next to shore with long rods, light lines and big Rapalas. In between frostbite amputations they sometimes scored big browns. There were enough 20 pounders that it did not raise many eyebrows when someone got one. Bob Bringhurst got the biggun...the 31 pounder...but there were quite a few huge fish lost at the net.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]In those days the chubs were so thick you could just about walk across the marina on them when they moved inside. The browns were planted heavily to help keep them in check. They got fat on chub pizza. The smallmouth were already in the lake by the mid 70s but not a major population yet. There were plenty to be caught, but they had not yet cleaned out the chubs. I think they were the main cause of the ultimate crash of the chub population, but of course the macks and browns did their part too. However, once the main forage base was gone (chubs), there were not as many browns stocked. And, the macks changed their dining habits to include more rainbows and kokes. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]As most Gorge fans know, macks are pretty omnivorous and will munch anything they can find. Today that might be a mixed platter of suckers, burbot, crawdads, sculpins and the aforementioned kokes and hatchery pet rainbows. As Gorge fans also know, the macks are not missing many meals. The fish being caught during the last year have mostly been very healthy, with big guts.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are still quite a few browns in the Gorge, but not nearly as many and seemingly none of the huge ones from those glory days. I am sure there are some trophies in there, but because the big browns feed at night...and only for short periods maybe once or twice a week...you have to be lucky and have both good timing and good planning to be at the right place at the right time with something they will hit when they are feeding. It was plenty tough "back when" and even tougher today.[/#0000ff]
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Good Reply Jim![/size][/#808000][/font]
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I remember the Christmas Tree thing that was when I was just getting out of high school. Too bad it didn't happen.[
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But even if the chubs had decent places to spawn do you think they could have continued to thrive once the Smallies were well established. I don't believe they would have done very well because there was just to many predators in the water.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]You are right, there are still a few decent browns in the Gorge but I havn't caught anything bigger than a nice Kokanee for alot of years. I do hear rumors at least once a year of someone catching one in the teen range, but most of those are caught up around the Confluence where the forage seems to change especially as you start up the Blacks Fork and the Green.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]Later,[/size][/#808000][/font]
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You're likely right, the trees might have only brought a small come-back, or held a low population of chubs in check for a while. Whatever's in here is going to be mack food if they occupy the same water. And whatever is in here around the shallows is going to be bass food. We're just lucky there's enough crawdads, bows, and kokes to have 'em fed to this point. It'll be interesting to see if the burbot ever figure into the equation, good or bad. (and we've already had that discussion!) If the bass had a longer growing season, that might be an above-average fishery too, but "the" Wyo. biologist (Wengert) told me they only grow for about 100 or so days a year, and then only consume enough calories to maintain their body weight for the remainder of the year. They do reproduce well, so there's lots of smaller fish, with some stray lunkers here and there.
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]I don't mean to change the subject but its my thread LOL, Why do the smallies only grow for 100 days a year? Is it the cold water or the elevation? Did the G&F have a theory on this?[/size][/#808000][/font]
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[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]I have noticed that smallies at Fontenelle (at least the ones I can catch) are an average a touch bigger than the ones I catch at the Gorge.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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I was told, but don't recall exactly. Seems like it was a combination of cold water most of the year (less active fish), and lack of forage (crawdads and not much else). However, I'm sure there's other lakes in the same situation that grow larger ones, so I'm not sure on this one. Could be other factors. The bass guys might know.
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Hey Wyobraz. Just for comparison, I look at Lake Powell and how much the smallmouth population has changed from only 5 years ago. Similar to the Gorge, there is a abundant habitat (rocks) and crayfish forage allowing smallmouth to prosper. When Lake Powell dropped dramatically in 2003 and held at a lower level, the fishery component changed. At low lake levels, tamarisk groves popped up along the shoreline. When re-submerged, these invasive trees provide cover and habitat for many species, including bass, bluegill, and crappie. Nutrients that were tied up in the lake bottom, were also redistributed into the water column by wind and currents, providing food for plankton and in turn forage for planktivorous species like shad. Threadfin and newly introduced gizzard shad populations boomed, providing smallmouth with another forage opportunity. The limit on smallmouth is also 20 fish at Lake Powell, and the DWR promotes harvest of smaller smallmouth to allow fish to achieve greater sizes. As a result of these changes, smallmouth size increased. Tournaments in 2000-2002, had 5-fish winning weights as low as 5-10 lbs. Now winning weights are over 15 lbs. The changes were rapid and somewhat at the mercy of mother nature. Good forage, good habitat, increasing harvest on smallmouth all played a role.
Population cycles can change as a result of fluctuations in forage and habitat, and on such big reservoir it can take a dramatic influence like the weather to get it done. Habitat projects like christmas tree pilings, can make an impact, but they are usually pretty localized on big reservoirs. I know the Forest Service still puts out trees in the back of Linwood Bay, and Wyoming G&F has also done some work in the past. I've assisted with some habitat projects and they take a lot of effort, from gathering up the trees and hauling them to the site to anchoring them in the lake.
Sure, the water temps and growing season on the Gorge is shorter compared to many other productive smallmouth waters in the Intermountain West. I also believe abundant habitat and changes in preferred forage play a huge role in the success of smallies on the reservoir. I still love to fish for them on the Gorge and as many anglers state "There's lots of them and they're small, but it's hard to pull a jig through them without getting a hit!" Smallmouths at the Gorge are a great way to get kids excited about fishing. It's hard to predict changes but I tend to believe the smallmouth population on the Gorge could change as a result of any of the above variables.
Anglers have seen the Gorge change in many ways, and brown trout used to be a big component. You're right, stocking 3-inch browns may not make an impact if the habitat or forage they need is lacking. It's something though, and if a small percentage of those fish make it through the "gauntlet", maybe we'll catch some trolling in a few years.
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You're right, stocking 3-inch browns may not make an impact if the habitat or forage they need is lacking. It's something though, and if a small percentage of those fish make it through the "gauntlet", maybe we'll catch some trolling in a few years. [/reply]
[font "Tempus Sans ITC"][#808000][size 3]Let's hope so I sure have my finger crossed.[/size][/#808000][/font]
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