Not to start a debate or anything, but let me ask a question. I hear many anglers make reference to the sporting manner in which fish are pusued, ie; light line. It is especially bothersome to me when fish like bass in Jordanelle are pursued in this manner. Jordanelle, Quail, Gunlock, ect. have way too much structure to chase 4lb fish with 6lb test. I wonder how many fish are broke off because anglers arent prepared with the appropriate equipment.
Can a big fish be landed on 4-6lb test, you bet they can. But doesn't it bother anyone else that a 4lb fish will die when you tangle it up in some Oakbrush because you couldn't steer it away or out of structure on a noodle rod and 4lb test?? Not to mention the added stress on the fish with regards to the extended fight further stressing the fish. What a mess it leaves behind when the water drops and other wildlife get tangled up in the 6lb test. How about replacing a lower unit because fishing line got wrapped around the prop and damaged the seal.
Take Elk hunting for instance, there are certain rifles/cal that a hunter must use to pursue this big animal. In my mind pursuing fish in lakes that obviously have a ton of structure is just plain ignorant not sporting. I just don't get it.........
I'm not really referring to chasing blugills @ Pelcian.
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[cool][#0000ff]Hey, I detached your post and started a new thread with it. It is a good topic and should get some discussion. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Personally, I seldom fish with line heavier than 6# test, because I do not target bass. However, I catch lots of smallies, up to 22 inches and have no problem bringing them in quickly and releasing them without harm.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I can also say that at Jordanelle, I have never had a bass break me off nor have I left a lot of line strung in the brush. Your concerns are valid but I do not think that everybody should string up with 60# braid just to be able to winch in a poor little bass. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]My observation is that the heavier line becomes more of an ecological problem than light line. When you hang solid with the heavy stuff, you can't break it. You have to cut it off and leave a long length between the surface and the brush. As a float tuber I have had to cut my way out of some of that stuff that has wrapped my legs and fins. On at least a couple of occasions I would have been trapped there if I did not have a knife.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I fish for sport, not to harvest as many fish as I can during a prescribed period of time (tournaments). I enjoy using light tackle and finesse techniques, to allow me to feel exactly what is going on at the other end of the line at all times. I am not a big fish specialist...actually preferring smaller fish in most cases. But, I do hook a lot of larger fish and I do not think I stress them unduly. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The guys that fish the wimpy rods and light lines are mostly the ice anglers who chase bluegills and other panfish. They do not deliberately try to catch the biggest bass in the lakes on their light gear. And, in Pelican, the occasional largemouth that bites bluegill lures is easily handled on light gear, without worry about line breaking structure. Same with Mantua.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I do not know any serious bass chasers that use gear too light for the prevailing conditions. Sometimes you have to use 6 pound line for proper presentation of drop shots, etc. And, you will lose some gear. But the breakoffs are usually at the point of the knots, at the end of the line...not stringing a lot of line all over the brush. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]That's my perspective. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Anybody else?[/#0000ff]
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[font "Lucida Console"][#ff4040]I watched my friend drop an elk with a 243[shocked] Was that too small of a caliber??[/#ff4040][/font]
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[font "Lucida Console"][#ff4040]I usually use 6lb test for pretty much all of my reels...and I think the biggest I've used was 10lb test for cats and have never had any problems landing fish.[/#ff4040][/font]
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I'm pretty much of a like mind Pat. I have gone over to a 2lb. dia. 8 lb. test Spiderwire or Fireline. I really like the low stretch but mostly like the added strength "cause I can pull a lot of lures loose from hangups. I guess on that point I'm just too damn cheap to buy lures when I don't have to.
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When you talk about getting line caught in your prop I think that is mainly from people just throwing it over the side of there boat which I have seen on many occasions, most of the time when the line breaks it's within the first 3 feet from the lure because that is the part the sees the most wear and tear.
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[font "Times New Roman"][size 3]That was a good reply and might even start another debate. When it comes to fishing, what is sporting? It seems that most of the equipment fishermen brag about using makes it less sporting, at least if you’re talking about giving the fish a sporting chance. Most of the fishermen on this sight spend a lot of money to make it easier to catch fish. They use fishfinders, power augers so that they can drill 20 holes, and hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of equipment. I like to use light line also. I use it because I enjoy fighting the fish to the surface. It probably is harder on the fish though.[/size][/font]
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On spinning reels I use 6 and on most bait casts I use 10 and this past year so far I can't remember one fish at Jordanelle that I broke off, and its not the size of rifle that kills its where you place the shot.....
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2][#002850]Loomis, I am definitely with you on this one. But not because of ecological reasons. I just hate to have a nice fish on the line and be unduly concerned that it might break off due to too light weight of line. My smallest test line on any of my many reels is 10 lb. and my heaviest is 20. But then again, I don't target pan fish.
I've been on my soap box about this a few times in the past and have strong feelings about it. I believe that it is best to have line that would easily handle the targeted species.
This brings to mind a fishing trip to Willard this year when my partner and I had had this very conversation the day before the fishing trip. He didn't agree with me and lost four of his lures right off the bat on 8 lb test line catching wipers. He then proceeded to ask me if he could borrow some of my lures. I told him no stinking way! I offered him my rod and real with MY lures but not on his tackle. Those four wipers are probably still out there with trebbeles in their mouths to this day.
That is why I so prefer fluorocarbon leaders. Since fluoro is nearly invisible in water (or so the manufactures say), I now have an excuse to go even heaver duty.[/#002850][/size][/font]
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I fish alot with the fly and bubble so I use 6lb line and 4lb leader
when I do hang up in brush the leader breaks first,lose flys
but not many bubbles. I have also landed many big fish 10lb, 15lb
catfish out on the bear river west of brigham, with 6lb line. I think
little line cast better also.
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6lb test is pretty strong stuff. Wrap some around you hands and then try and break it. Bet you get a couple of nasty line cuts if you do. Chances are if you're using 6lb test, you're dropshotting and are using a small light wire hook. If you let the fish swallow that hook to begin with, you weren't paying attention to what was happening. But that doesn't really matter anyway 'cause chances are, the hook will rust out or pass through the fishes system. I catch fish all the time that have a hook either in their gullet or in the process of being passed through their anal vent. Also I might add that 9 times out of 10 it's a snelled hook that some night crawling nimrod was throwing. If you hooked a fish with a crankbait or spinnerbait, first off, what are you thinking using that light of line with that kind of bait? But more important, the fish probably spit that lure out about 30 seconds after you broke it off. Fish are pretty strong and resilient creatures that will figure out how to survive if a piece of 6lb string is holding them to a branch.
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[cool][#0000ff]You on a soapbox? Never.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Let me get on mine. I have been preaching for years that fish do not break lines...FISHERMEN DO. Those who use cheap line, do not replace it when necessary, tie poor knots, use lousy reels with poor drags (or do not properly adjust drags)...they are the ones who break lines. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]If your boatmate was using 8 pound line, that would land any wiper in Willard with good line and the right knots and drag settings. But, if you troll fast, with the drag hammered down, even a two pound walleye could break the line.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]For the type of fishing you do...and the possible need for some extra "angler problem" insurance...you may need stronger line. But, don't criticize others who use lighter lines for different fishing.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There are not many fish in Utah that cannot be subdued on 6# line quickly enough to prevent undue stress. Much of the problem in having fish go belly up is in how the fish are handled once they reach the net. Guys who use trebles or large hooks with big barbs almost always grip the fish too hard, for too long, to be able to rip the hooks out. Using the right kind of hooks and the right handling techniques are likely to have far more importance in the survival of fish you release.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I once had a "bassaholic" all but foaming at the mouth when he insisted that I use heavier line..."just in case I hooked a bass". I agreed, but only if he would agree to fish for bass only with a 3 weight fly rod and dry flies. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It is all a matter of perspective. We have the right to buy and use the tackle we want, to properly address our own idea of fishing as a sport. Nobody else has the right to dictate what tackle we use or how we use it.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]By the way, ol' buddy, none of my harsh words were directed at you personally...only at the idea of those who would promote a "one size fits all" style of fishing.[/#0000ff]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][size 2][#002850]"Nobody else has the right to dictate what tackle we use or how we use it." And hopefully my words weren’t taken that way.
Some points that I didn't mention that you did that I strongly agree with … "Those who use cheap line, do not replace it when necessary, tie poor knots, use lousy reels with poor drags (or do not properly adjust drags)...they are the ones who break lines." And looking back on that day with my bone head boat mate, I think that every one of those items were in play too.
One big issue that I have frequently realized, and am realizing again here as a result of this thread, is that I am not nearly as good a fisherman as I would like to be or should be (ability to fish properly with smaller test line than I do). Until I get there, I will still go with stronger line and lead it with fluoro. And with the success it provides me, I don't think I will break that bad habit any time soon.
EDIT: The guy that caught the 9-10 lb state record wiper this year was supposidly using 4 lb test wasn't he? Now he-the-man!
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Over the years I have gone from one extreme to the other on line test. For nearly all of my fishing these days I use 6 pound test line (Silverthread). I find that it casts great and works well for vertically jigging. I use heavier line when jigging for macks, and I primarily need it then so that I don't break off with my power hook sets that I use for macks. I have used as light of line as 2 pound test ice fishing. I found that I got more bites when I went that light, but on occasion I would break off when I used a whole-arm set, instead of remembering to snap my wrist. I use 80 pound Dacron for sturgeon, realizing that I could downsize to at least 30 or 40 pound test and still land the ones that I hook in the waters that I fish, but I want to get them in faster with the heavy line so that I don't spend a long time landing them, which would be fun for me, but because the others on the boat have to reel in and wait it would not be fun for them.
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Its interesting to see everyone's perspective on this, I also enjoy using what some may call a lighter rig to catch fish. Growing up in Michigan you begin fishing salamon/steelhead before you walk. Along with this you learn how important fishing line is and how to maintain/adjust your drag. Your drag can be your best friend or worst enemy, depending on how well you know your reel. I am one of those who use 6lb for most the winter, however i will say to admit your not exactly where you would like to be in regards to being an experience fisherman is very noble and i definitly respect that. Just remember, you learn to crawl, then walk, then run. In other words once comfortable start adjusting your line and continue to challange yourself and you will see drastic improvments, your confidence will skyrocket, and you will enjoy the fight when you hook that next pig.
Good luck fishing
"Si Vis Pacem Parabellum"
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You point out very good points, I use to take a rod or two to work in the winter to use for casting practices one of the other workers said I should use heaver line for the type of fishing I do...
Well I use Andy line and yes it is one of the cheapest lines on the market but it is one of the best and most accurate of all lines on the pound test...
One thing led to another and I told him he could not brake 6 lb line by just pulling on it to the rod and reel not by hand to hand or pulling it around anything, he tried for about ten min. before giving up my drag and rod worked as it should....
Like you said a good reel a good rod and the drag set right is what counts if the fish gets you in the rocks or trees a rope may not be enough....
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I use what works for me and the lure/ presentation at the time. It's a little hard to cast 1/16 to 1/4 oz jigs on 10#to 20# line. If I fish a Spinnerbait in heavy cover then I use 15 to 20lb test. Ice fishing I use 6 to 8Lb. I don't like to fight a 16" trout to death before I get it up through the hole.
Match the line to the lure, fish size and conditions, It's that simple!
James
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I use 6-8 pound test line for all my fishing i use 8 pound test for tiger muskies and never had a break off and i know those fish fight and then when i ice fish at the berry i use 4 pound test and i have brought fish through the hole up to 8 pounds
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Everyone on here has a point and that is to fish with what suits your needs. Most my fishing is done in alpine lakes where you don't catch many fish over 3 or 4 pounds. I'm casting 1/32- 1/16 ounce jigs and you need all the help you can get casting them. I use premium 4lb. test (P-Line) and a quality spinning reel and I seldom break a fish off unless I get careless and horse em. On the occasional 5-6 pound fish I hook the 4lb. line with a good drag and some patience will do the job. Also you get bit more with light line.
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I only use 6lb test and for my family 10lb test.Technique helps a lot when pulling a big fish with light line. I have pulled 40lb amberjacks form wrecks with 10lb line. Anyone can yank oa fishing line but most likely it will bust!! [
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I use six# for most species and eight to ten for willard. I totally agree with tubedude as to having fresh line on your reel, having the proper drag setting, tying correct knots etc.. However I must reply to using a .243 for Elk. In my opinion that is truly not enough gun for the task at hand, yes it will kill them as is proven every year, but if you hunt elk long enough on public lands you may come to realize that even if you make a great shot on a bull he may just turn around and leave the vicinity, leaving you with some tracking to do. If you are not experienced in tracking or do not have a decent blood trail you stand a chance of losing that great animal.Sorry, I know this is not a hunting forumn but I had to get that off my chest. Scott himself uses a much larger gun than a .243. Everyone have a Merry Christmas!!
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