Quote:All fish were located between 30 and 40'
Were they suspended, or was that 40' the bottom?
I would assume the bottom, because you can't jig for suspended fish? Yes/no ??? (Scratching my head)
BTW, that is an amazing day. Thx for posting, and congrats!
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Quote:All fish were located between 30 and 40'
Were they suspended, or was that 40' the bottom?
I would assume the bottom, because you can't jig for suspended fish? Yes/no ??? (Scratching my head)
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Why not, I do it all of the time. That is the value of a fishfinder because one can fish where the fish are.
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Thx, Kent. Coincidentally, I was thinking just last week about whether jigging is a technique that can be used in the water column, rather than on the bottom. This thread just brought the question to a head.
Are you using a line counter reel then, if you're jigging at a specific suspended depth? Or are you able to see your jig on-screen?
I used to have a H-bird 565, and now have a super-duper fishfinder, and I have never been able to see my jig on-screen, no matter how high I turn up the gain.
It completely perplexes me how you guys do that. And there are several posts here where guys with a 565 say they can see the jig on-screen. Heck, it's even on the 565 box. But when I called H-bird about this, they said more wattage was need. But even that hasn't been the cure.[frown]
So tell me you're using a LC reel?
tg
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Every fish finder that I use (I have four of them) I can see my jig on the screen (or flash marks with the Vexilar). Is there a way to turn the fish symbol off on your fishfinder? One must have the fish symbols turned off in order to see jigs.
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What!!! Why didn't Humminbird tell me this! This is huge! Yes, I can turn off Fish ID on my 997. And will do so when jigging!
Arrgghh!
If this works, I can't thank you enuff. This has been a real source of irritation for me.
Sooo, do I like owe you gas money or sumptin for this advice? [
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One thing that was not brought up was the frequency,I use the 50khz setting when jigging,this give you a smaller cone angle on most units,it seems to pick the jig up better and I can leave the gain on auto,on my raytheon I also use the a-scope mode and can see a fish come into the beam instantly like a flasher,nice to know where the fish is at,5' up off the bottom or dead on the bottom,most come in when the smell the chub meat though and they will find it either way.
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And I guess I've been a sucker for the marketing, because I have always liked looking at fish symbols rather than arches. It's almost as if I'm thinking fish symbols have more "authenticity" than arches.
BTW, you're not the first guy to post that Fish ID is mere marketing..
I've been so frustrated by this that I've actually dangled my lure about 3' below the x-ducer in an attempt to get a reading. Nada.
Weather permitting, I'll fish this weekend, and I can't wait to try this out.
If this works, H-bird will be getting some, ahem, customer feedback, on their not-so-sound guidance. For heavens sakes, it says right on the 565 box that you can see your jig.
Again, much thanks to both of you for this advice.
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Glad I could help.
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Quote:I use the 50khz setting when jigging,this give you a smaller cone angle on most units
Thanks, but,,, are you sure? I'm pretty sure that the smaller the khz number, the larger the underwater cone.
My 997 has a 200 khz and a 83khz beam. the 83 has 60 degrees of coverage, whereas the 200 has 20 degree of coverage. It's a wider beam and less detail versus narrower beam and more detail thing.
Then again, I'm assuming the khz and cone width go hand in hand. Maybe a manufacturer can make any cone size they want with any frequency they want.
BUT, nonetheless, your point is well taken, because the 997 has the ability to use both frequencies simultaneously, or either individually.
So this weekend, if I jig, it will be with Fish ID off, and with only the 200khz/20 degree cone on.
I've read in several places that your fishfinder is your best friend. Although I love mine, because of the jigging problem, my relationship has not been a perfect one.
Thanks for your input. [
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Your right on the cone angle. The higher the frequency, the narrower the cone angle but with less depth penetration. My 797 for instance has a 20 degree cone angle for the 200Khz beam, and a 60 degree cone angle with the 83Khz beam. In shallow water, the 200Khz beam will only see the items directly beneath the boat where the 83Khz sees those items within a circle equal to the depth. (10' deep, 10 foot diameter circle of coverage, 50' deep, 50 foot circle, etc)
The low frequency beam is best in shallow water where the fish are stacked up in quantity, or where you just want to know at what depth to troll. The new dual beam units or the quad beam units are the way to go.
I like the dual beam best for still fishing as you can zero in on your targets. Both frequencies are run and displayed at the same time on your screen (blue returns for 83Khz, and orange for 200Khz returns). If your in 50 feet of water for instance, the fish can be 25' in any direction from your transducers location (50' circle). Once you've located a pod of fish within this larger area on your wide angle beam (blue color returns), you can move your boat around within this circle until they show up in the narrower 200Khz beam (orange color returns). At this point you know your right on top of a group of them. Lock in a waypoint on the GPS, and your set both today, and the next time you return to this area. With the beter GPS combo units you can use the date info attached to the waypoint names to know what time of year that spot was a good producer.
We've been using this at starvation to target pods of fish during the daylight hours, and then be able to navigate back to them after dark for some really good late night action.
Here's a good link that shows the newest technology. The side imaging stuffs neat too, but I haven't used it enough to get good at it yet.
[url "http://www.humminbird.com/leading_innovation/humminbird-sonar.aspx"]http://www.humminbird.com/...umminbird-sonar.aspx[/url]
Later[
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Good info. I have a 200/50khz color Lowrance that I'm still trying to figure out but just learned something.
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Since we're on the subject of fish finder functionality, I have a question. I have a Garmin fish finder (it was affordable), and it always shows fish swimming below the "bottom.' For example, if it shows the bottom at 30', it will mark fish around 35'. They're seemingly swimming in the mud. Anyone else had this problem?
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Fish are marked on the screen when any kind of air pocket is encountered on the sonar return whether it be inside a fishes air bladder, in your worm floating off the bottom, or as air pockets in the water or possibly beneath the surface of the bottom structure.
We recently were over a hot spring with lots of bubbles rising, and our fishfinders were showing every single bubble as a small fish. Kinda deceiving when your looking for something to jig to. It did end up being a good location as fish were hanging in that area, but we know well enough that they weren't all fish.
I'm guessing that may be the issue you're seeing. Can't say I've ever seen the fish symbols being displayed below the whiteline on the bottom though. Maybe play with your bottom & sensitivity settings to see if it goes away. My unit has settings for bottom type, and whether I want details displayed or a whiteline.
Good luck
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what you may be seeing is the thermocline,some fish finders can see threw it and pick up fish,most have a hard time. at strawberry right now it at around thirty feet.that may be why your picking up fish below what you think is the bottom,that's the only thing I can think what you may be seeing? I will get a screen shot next time I go up to show you what it looks like and what a fish looks like when the fish ID is turned off,when your jigging your jig and the fish is a horizontal line not an arch,if the fish stays in the sonar you will see this line,when it starts to leave the sonar the line will fall off like the end of an arch.allot of guys will pull the jig up or down to where the fish is on the screen,because you can see your jig you can put it right in there face.
theses are the settings I set.
sensitivity/Gain = 85-90% matters how much garbage is showing up.Usaully I will take it up tell there is alot of clutter and back it off just a little bit,you will still have clutter but will be able to see fish and your jig.Some times Auto work fine,at Strawberry it work great on Auto?
Frequency 50Khz Dual works well with mine.
Chart speed= fast as it will go.
I set my whiteline to on,some like it off,with white line on its easier for me to see what type of bottom I am fishing over.
Thats it!
fnf[cool]
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Quote:My 797 for instance has a 20 degree cone angle for the 200Khz beam, and a 45 degree cone angle with the 83Khz beam.
Nope, you have the same cone angles as the 997, so you s/b pleased to learn that your 83k is a 60 degree.
It's in the 797 on-line manual pdf, page 3.
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There is absolutely no need for a dual frequency finder in 99.9% of all freshwater applications. The depths encountered for fresh water fishing, especially in Utah, do not warrant the use of low frequency and narrow cone angles needed for deep water applications.
Low frequency penetrated deep water better than high frequencies but you sacrifice detail that high frequency is much more capable of. Also low frequencies use narrow cone angles because at 1000 ft deep, who wants to see an area the size of two football fields? Narrower cone angles with low frequency allows you to pinpoint areas in deep water.
Forget all this nonsense about using dual frequncies. Use your high frequency settings and you'll be happy. You'll get much finer detail and that includes not only seeing your jig but also the knot that ties the leader to the main tag line. With my 20 degree, 200 khz transducer, I can see that knot at over 80 feet deep and it isn't much bigger than the head of a pin.
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But your low frequency/low angle setup is the exact opposite of the H-bird 565, 797 & 997 setup.
See the above replies. All of the above are 83khz with 60 degree, and 200 with 20 degree, i.e. lower frequencies have wider cone angles.
Also, forgive me, but I'm having a hard time believing you can see the head of a pin (your knot) at 80'. Do you have a Fish ID, and if so, is it turned off? What finder do you have? What's its wattage?
As I've written above, I simply have not been able to see my jig on-screen, so if you can see a knot, I'd love to know more.
I'm fishing tomorrow, and I'm gonna spend a fair amount of time futzing with my 997, so any tips you can add will absolutely be tested out.
Thx.
tg
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I have owned and own several sonar units, including a very high end Lowrance. As has been said, I too do not use fish ID. I don't know how many times this has been said on this forum but I know it's said at least once a week.
You have the ability to adjust your sonar settings when in the manual mode to fit every situation. The need to adjust your sonar settings in varying conditions is a must. Do not think by just turning off the fish ID that all your problems will be solved.
You can tweak the settings so that , yes, you can see the knot between your leader and main tag line but the conditions have to be perfect. When motionless on the ice, in clear water, no interference from other sonar, and your sonar settings adjusted to near perfection, you will be surprised at what you can see.
All that side finding stuff is great but we are talking about vertical jigging where you are looking straight down. There is no need for all those fancy functions. You're not moving so some of your functions are useless. When vertical jigging, you want power, sensitivity, the ability to adjust your screen and various filter settings to give you the best possible view of what is underneath you. Good luck with your sonar.
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Quote:Also low frequencies use narrow cone angles because at 1000 ft deep, who wants to see an area the size of two football fields?
Except low frequencies use wide cone angles.
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Quote:Do not think by just turning off the fish ID that all your problems will be solved.
Actually, they should. I've had the 3 key settings dialed in to see a jig for a while; it's just never occurred to me to turn Fish ID off. Particularly since Humminbird never mentioned this when I called them.
It'll be a
day if I can't see a jig after tomorrow.
Can't wait. Thx.
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