Fishing Forum

Camped for two weeks first at Redfish and then Alturas. Didn't take the boat after reading dismal reports... Redfish was overrun with lake lice and noisy party types. Mt. Heyburn campground had a couple of families with over 25 people each camping in single sites!
I talked two little girls to shore one morning that were caught in the eddy swirl from Fishook Creek. They were in one of those tiny yellow toy rafts with a minnow net for a paddle... Not over 11 years old and no parents around plus NO life preservers! I waded out as far as I could and told them to get on their knees and paddle with their hands. They were finally able to get out of the vortex and make it to the beach. One was panicking; both were about frozen. Had they capsized I have no doubt they would both have drowned and I would have as well had I tried to go after them. What's wrong with parents nowdays?
Saw two or three boats fishing before the power boats seized the lake. Talked to one oldtimer and he caught one bull trout and released it. Said he's been camping at Redfish for 20 years and fishing has bombed for several years now. We saw the big Chinooks and the beautiful Sockeyes at the Sawtooth Hatchery. Quite a run.
Alturas produced a few planters from the shore on Mepps spinners. Worms and powerbait produced both pikeminnows and squawfish. (or some carp-like bottom feeder) Couldn't keep them off the hook.
Massive line of thunderstorms at Alturas last Thursday night. We in our tent trailer... Just held on; quite a ride.
Sandhill cranes are everywhere in all the marshes! Good camping trip but I'll bypass Redfish next year. The microburst that hit Glacier View C.G. and the surrounding area snapped trees off 6 to 15 feet from the ground. Glad we weren't present for that event...
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Great Report. Those kids are lucky you were there.

Windriver
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Nice report and cool pictures! Did you measure that big bull trout? The picture of it in the water looks like a shark coming in for a landing!
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No didn't have a scale or tape. We figured it had to be at least 4 pounds. It was nice to see - everyone was being real good about trying to handle them well, and get them quickly/safely released. (except for the one that kept getting dropped before the picture snapped. Slightly squirmish little gal! But - it took off too after some reviving)

Having the waders on - I did much of the reviving - and that was fun, cuz I got to handle lots of big fish, and feel them jolt back to attention and take off.

There were some serious schools of big fish that cruised around that inlet. Then lots of bulls just hunkered down on the bottom. I think all the C&R has made for some large and smart fish. But they do like their eggs...
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Thanks for sharing the link and report. Those are some great pictures and despite the weather it looks like you all had a wonderful trip.

One of the most beautiful areas to grace this earth!
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Great report. The Alturas campout was one of my favorite all time trips. The TSMs coming through were exciting.
Nice pics of the Bull. Have to try them sometime there at the inlet.
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My parents and siblings went over there by Stanley for family vacation this year, but I missed it to take care of my wife who was ill. My brother didn't fish much at the small lakes they were at but he did catch and release a few Bull trout, and caught and cooked a few planter rainbows.

Thursday was the planned fishing day and like you said, a huge storm moved in, so he never even got the boat in at Stanley lake.

All in all, I think I am ok with not going. I was able to be there for my wife, and even though she said I could drive up to meet them I think she appreciated having me here in IF.
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Wow the bulls have really started to make a comeback up there apparently.
As beautiful as the pictures are, seeing you guys holding them up out of the water like that makes me wince.
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So I guess that's why we never see any pics from you, 'cause you would have to take them out of the water to take a pic?
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I post pictures on here, but you certainly won't find any of me violating the law by holding protected Bull Trout out of the water.



And you'll certainly never hear me tell stories about how we were specifically targeting protected fish (pretty sure that's a citeable offense, too) then mishandling them in an effort to get that perfect photo. Yes, those fish were improperly handled. There's a section in the Idaho F&G regulations manual that displays the do's and don'ts of releasing fish properly to give the fish the best chance at survival after being caught, and from what I can see in the photos and gather from the previous posts, everything I underlined occurred.

• Do not handle fish with dry hands.
• Do not squeeze the fish.
• Do not touch the gills or hold fish by gill covers.
• Leave the fish in the water while removing the
hook; needlenose pliers or forceps are helpful.
• If the hook cannot be easily removed, cut the
leader. The hook will rust out rapidly.
• If the fish is exhausted, hold it in a swimming
position in the water and move it back and forth
gently until you release it.
• Avoid excessive and unnecessary handling of the
fish, and avoid removing fish from water.
• Avoid laying fish on a hard surface.

I'm not saying Coyotespinner or the other people in the photos are knuckleheads or meant to do anything unethical, it's probably just a case of being uninformed. I have no problem with non-residents coming over to Idaho to fish, but do yourself and everyone else right by familiarizing yourself with the regulations beforehand.

You can still get pictures of fish without taking them out of the water.

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you can target them all you want...we can argue the ethics of that another time...just be aware of how to handle fish...


just because it swims off doesnt mean it will fully recover...

those were some sweet pics though and some niceeeee bullies...
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Wow - I do feel kinda beat up on now. [pirate] And I'm sorry you feel that way. But I will say - strongly - I don't agree.

I did make an effort to read up on Idaho laws before coming up on the trip (ya'll have a big book! And I thought Utah's laws were quirky and confusing!). That's how I even KNEW about Bull-Trout (not like you could miss all the signs at every body of water you come to).

Maybe I misinterpreted - but what I thought was meant by "may not be removed from the water and must be released immediately" referred more to - no live wells, no stringers, no hanging on to them, taking them home - rather get the hook out (if you can) and get them back in quickly as possible. As I mentioned - I revived many of the fish, since I was wading in the water. And those fish took off with full-vigor. Each fish was quite quickly returned.

Folks on shore would have had a hard time removing hooks and releasing fish if they hadn't lifted them. The shore is VERY shallow, and rough sand.
I specifically moved to single hooks to assist in easier release. Out of over a 1/2 dozen I saw caught, there was one that was only left with a hook in. There was the one that got dropped a couple times (kids, they try!) - and I cringed each time. But I also swam him back and forth until he kicked away hard and strong.

EVERY fish I touched was with wet hands, held gently from underneath. And I'm sorry - but yes - they were my first bull-trout EVER - and I did practice CPR - catch, photograph, release. I don't consider that a crime, I'm sorry that you do.
The listing of how best to handle and release fish - are suggestions, as I see it. GOOD ones, but it's not that you're breaking the law if you touch a fish with a dry hand - for example, key word - "AVOID".

Spoke with a ranger who checked my "temporary out of state license". He asked if we'd caught any bulls - I told him about the biggy - then he asked if they were released. I told him Yes-Sir! I did tell him about the photos - he didn't question anything about lifting fish out of the water. I even showed him the big-bull!

And as for "specifically targetting" I concur with the other note -
(1) we weren't "specifically targetting" anything
(2) we were hoping to catch Bulls
(3) we were hoping to catch ANYTHING that would bite!
- I don't think there's any law against that! That's why they call it CATCH and release.

Using the same bait - same technique - same location, I pulled in hosts more planter 'bows than bulls, without a doubt. Seems like every fish up there eats salmon eggs.

So honestly - who can tell me they'd prefer to hook into a 10-12 inch newly planted - farm raised - STUPID rainbow, or a 5 lb seasoned SMART/SLY/STRONG Bull? Which is a greater challenge, which a greater reward/satisfaction?
I paid good money for that temp-permit, I planned to use it (cost me more for 5 days of fishing in Idaho, than a full year in Utah).

And as I say all this "we" stuff - there were different families camping and fishing there - "we" were strangers. I was on my own - flying solo. But there was a good comradery and support amongst the anglers there. In particular - this feller with the Big Bull was from Idaho, and seemed most informed, and shared his knowledge with the others. There were some younger kids there, and who knows what might have happened if they weren't watched - but I'll say - this guy stepped up and helped get fish in safely, and returned healthy. I did what I could too.


So riddle me this? How many Idaho Anglers have come fishing in Utah, and brought Corn for bait???

you did nothing wrong in my eyes. after all it is just a fish ! and bull trout are hardy fish . not like planters that die as you reel them in. it was pathetic how you were attacked for a quick picture.
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Quote:"may not be removed from the water and must be released immediately"

That law is very specific for a reason. If a warden walked up and you were in violation of this law, they would seize your camera, all fishing equipment and give you a summons to court for which you would have to return for. The laws on Bull Trout and Sturgeon are set so that waters they exist in do not have to be closed to all other kinds of fishing to protect these species.

Idaho is very serious about not removing from the water.
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Don't feel beat up. We are all learning and we are all getting an education from this discussion as long as it does not get out of hand.

MMDon explained this the best and when I heard this I too first thought of the sturgeon law. There is nothing particularly wrong with targeting bull trout or sturgeon. However, they do need to be left in the water for release.

As MMDon said we don't want the Feds closing down certain waters to protect a protected species of fish.

Windriver
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Sorry - I'm defensive by nature. I do appreciate the concern some of you anglers have for your protected fish, and honestly - I say good on ya. We have to police ourselves and one another. And the DWR can't be everywhere - usually nowhere nearby when you might need them.

But I'm still not sold on the notion that it is a crime to lift a Bull out of the water - and that I'd be subject to strip-search-and-seizure for doing so. I posted a pic earlier from the Idaho fishing rules - and it says "release BACK into the water" - to ME that would imply it had been brought OUT of the water ( I will try to check with the "officials". As mentioned I DID show a ranger our trophy photo - to no comment).

I know I'd seen something more specific on Sturgeon, and watched some (amazing) shows depicting targetting sturgeon (yes - targetting a protected fish species - specifically). Had to go back through the book, but attached is the sturgeon page - and it spells out specifically that "it is illegal to remove a sturgeon from the water". They even suggest you don't drag their heads out of water.

Now - if you think about it - and the fishes longevity - and sheer SIZE, making an effort to lift a 100-600 pound fish - good luck if you don't have a crane and strong gaff!!! Plus - these prehistoric beasts might endure a 3 hour fight before being landed - yeah they're gonna be out of "breath". (and so will the angler!)
Further - if you roll them on their back, they relax.

Looking back at my "double" photo, with the fish still in water - the one appears a tad squeezed - but only to hold it firmly enough to keep the fish from taking off prematurely before we'd had a chance to properly revive them. They were ANY thing but sitting still for photos!
Biggest "fight" might have been 3 minutes, with the fish in highly oxygenated cold water, there at the inlet. Released and BACK in the water within maybe 30 seconds.

I guess the problem I have, and the concern is in regards to the allegation (accusation even) made that the treatment of the fish caught caused violation of the law.
Therefore - in my defensive, paranoid state - one could take my photos and post as "evidence" of a crime, and turn us all in for prompt cavity searches.
Makes me concerned that a post could be misinterpreted, or misused, and leaves me reluctant to leave another post. So maybe I should take the post down, and remove the pictures (like you can do that on the internet. There is NO UNDO!).

But I had SO much positive response, and enthusiasm, even some folks inspired to go there BY my post. Get ya'll more tourist dollars, eh! Made me all warm-n-fuzzy to have contributed.

So I guess in closing - I appreciate the concern for protected species, and reasons for limits, and guidelines about handling. Also - what I'll take as well-meaning education efforts from forum members.
But please don't assert or suggest that laws were broken unless you KNOW it. As mentioned - I was there, and watched a lot of concerned anglers try very hard to treat the bulls well and see them back safely to their home at the inlet. Maybe you'll get a chance to go up and meet them in person!

Now if I had a picture of a Bull-Fillet dressed up on a bed of rice fresh out of the smoker - unspotted dorsal and all, garnished with fresh sturgeon caviar, well . . . that'd be a different story. Maybe some sea-turtle soup for an appetizer.

But I'll admit - I've been known to go 30mph in a 25mph zone. No photos to prove it though! FISHON!!!

I have done the same exact thing with wild steelhead and a game warden standing over my shoulder as my buddy to a quick picture. I wasn't arrested, searched, or even looked at crossways. After the fish was properly revived and released the officer simply said "nice job"

I doubt that picture will land you in the crowbar hotel.
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[quote CoyoteSpinner]

Maybe I misinterpreted - but what I thought was meant by "may not be removed from the water and must be released immediately" referred more to - no live wells, no stringers, no hanging on to them, taking them home - rather get the hook out (if you can) and get them back in quickly as possible. As I mentioned - I revived many of the fish, since I was wading in the water. And those fish took off with full-vigor. Each fish was quite quickly returned. [/quote]

Are you for real? How can you misinterpret "may not be removed from the water?"

[quote CoyoteSpinner]
The listing of how best to handle and release fish - are suggestions, as I see it. GOOD ones, but it's not that you're breaking the law if you touch a fish with a dry hand - for example, key word - "AVOID".
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Never said you were breaking the law touching a fish with dry hands, or any other point in that list, just pointing out that they were mishandled. Which they were.

[quote CoyoteSpinner]
Spoke with a ranger who checked my "temporary out of state license". He asked if we'd caught any bulls - I told him about the biggy - then he asked if they were released. I told him Yes-Sir! I did tell him about the photos - he didn't question anything about lifting fish out of the water. I even showed him the big-bull!
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Rangers work for the Forest Service; most of them are completely clueless as to the Fish and Game regulations.
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wow nothing like the ol' "welcome to Idaho kick to the face" huh? [crazy][pirate] I think the point has been made....

Thanks again for the report Coyote
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wow nothin like the ol' "turn a blind eye to unethical behavior."

Calling my posts a "pathetic attack" or a "kick in the face" is absurd. I realize that misunderstandings occur, that's why I stated in my post that I didn't think Coyotespinner meant to do anything wrong. My objective was to inform someone who was obviously uninformed; not to bash anyone. But apparently it's a moot point.
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