Fishing Forum

[cool][#0000ff]We have frequent discussions on this board about the various "perch factories" in Utah, and how they seem to be producing or not producing. I do a lot of perchin' my own self, and carry on some email and PM discussions with other "perch hounds" in Utah. I have developed some opinions and questions on both the current status of perch in several waters and on their future potential. With that in mind, I sent an email to Drew Cushing, Director of Warm Water Fisheries, with a copy to Richard Hepworth, one of the fisheries biologists.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]"[#000000]Thought I would share some observations on perch fishing and ask some questions.

1. Is there going to be any kind of ongoing PROACTIVE management plan for perch fishing? I am referring to limits and regulations for specific waters.

A. Pineview. Perch limit is still 50, but the populations do not justify that. The perch fishery has dropped WAY OFF.
B. Jordanelle. Ditto
C. Starvation. Perch are an illegal introduction, and should be subject to no limit and mandatory kill. But, the limit is 20 perch, in spite of huge numbers.

2. The perch in Yuba appear to be headed for trouble. Angler observations are that the water level has dropped precipitously, leaving young perch vulnerable to all predators. And, pike and walleye are not the only predators. The carp in Yuba are at an obscene level. They are eating more baby perch and walleyes than the other predators. And it is difficult to even fish for perch or walleyes without carp taking the lures or baits. And, when these carp are gutted, they are full of fry. What's more, the average size of the perch has declined (lack of food...or fishing) and they are SKINNY. The perch are not able to compete with the carp for the available supply of young perch. Perch that are kept and filleted have thin fillets and little or no food in their stomachs.

3. The perch in Rockport and Echo seem to be doing well these days, with healthy populations of several year classes. Probably no need to make any regulation changes.

4. The perch in Mantua seem to have peaked and are being managed by bluegills and bass as well as anglers. Fewer large perch and those taken are skinnier.

I know the Division conducts netting surveys and angler creel census, but I am an avid perch jerker and maintain regular communication with several other knowledgeable guys around the state who also have an interest in the perch fisheries. My input is based upon REAL WORLD, weekly on-the-water experiences...tempered with just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

Not criticizing anybody. Just wanted to "download" and to see if there are any plans in the works to tweak any programs a little."[/#000000][/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Here was Drew's Response:[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]" [#000000]I agree with your assessments. We are working towards solutions but that will take some time. I think the solutions revolve around sampling in a manner that allows the UDWR to correctly model population responses to both natural and angling mortality. Once we get that done we can set limits that will have the correct population response.

Trust me we are making strides but they are small steps right now.

Drew[/#000000]"[/#0000ff]
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very well said TD.. the responce is about what is expectid tho..

you did not put the word trout in there anywhere.. lol..

i'm like you i would rather go catch a mess of fat perch than planter trout any day.. the demise of gunnison res. the short rise and now what looks like the starting of the crash of Yuba has been frustrating for me!

i said it after my first trip to Yuba this year. the perch look sick! big heads skinny body's.. i have seen that look before and it's not a good sign for the lake.. and as i said in the first report i could see carp up in the shalows vacuming up perch fry as fast as they could.. again not what ya want to see for the perch or the lake.. well maybe in 6 or 7 more years the carp will have levled out and the perch will come back again.. [crazy].. i dont think the walleye ever had much of a chance or will again with out help sometime down the raod..
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I am probably the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to fishing for perch. My personal feelings are if I can't catch anything else it is better to catch a few perch than get skunked, but just barely and their primary purpose is to used for bait to catch other fish. However, I respect those who feel otherwise about fishing for any fish that swims out there, be it a perch, chub, sucker carp, rainbow, carp, bass, catfish, mackinaw or whatever. I was really surprised at how skinny the perch are in Mantua. As fertile as that body of water appears to be I can only assume it is because of far too large of fish mass for the body of water. I am glad to see that the UDWR is taking a more proactive approach in their fish management; however, unless they speed up their process and are willing to change the rules on a more frequent basis their studies will be of little practical value.
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Good info, but you forgot Fishlake kill them all they should not be there. But i do like them at Starvation, and others as they are so very tasty. I hope the can get it down to give us some great Perch fishing.
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Re; "however, unless they speed up their process and are willing to change the rules on a more frequent basis their studies will be of little practical value."

You nailed it as to why perch management is so tough in this state. The conditions and populations of perch swing wildly from year to year due to natural die offs, predation, drought, spawning condiditons, and fishing pressure. Some, like the natural die offs perch have are largely unpredictable. Other factors may be foreseeable. As long as the DWR sets regulations in a deliberate fashion as they are required to do, it will be hard for the biologists to stay ahead of the game with perch.

Nevertheless, I would hope that the DWR would strongly consider changing some of the "outdated" regs such as the 50 fish limits in Pineview and Jordanelle. I have confidence that they will.
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Okay, I will chime in. Remember back years ago when there was no limit on perch? The perch population was steady and endless, reminicent of white bass proportions, no matter how many musky were stocked to kill them. Also, despite significant fishing pressure on them, the perch maintained a steady overabundant population. What killed the perch fishery in my personal opinion was the institution of the 20 fish statewide perch limit. Within 2 years of that the fish overpopulated so bad they got skinny with no egg sack development even towards january in the ice fishing season. Normally perch at that point are swollen with eggs. The next summer there was a major dieoff.......and I mean MAJOR. The perch fishery has never recovered in all these years. That is why they finally raised the limit back to 50. But never have gotten even close to any limits on perch at pine since the big crash. Thus, in my opinion, I theorize it's best to keep perch limits liberal. It's unlikely that fishing pressure will affect them much. Also there is very little pressure on them nowadays except during ice fishing. I haven't fished for perch once this entire year at pineview, for example. There are simply not enough chances to get into any significant numbers to make it worthwhile. I used to make a few summer trips to catch them from shore and it was fun. Now, there are alot better places to go. Hopefully if left alone, this fishery may make a recovery someday.
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[#6000bf]I like the "No Limit" idea best.[/#6000bf]
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I agree, I'm from the mid west and we used to catch 5 gallon buckets full weekly on some lakes. Everyone did and that was generation to generation. Never did we have too few perch.
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[font "Times New Roman"][#000000]I personally think that the perch are among the bottom of the list of priorites for the DWR. There are some great spots for them to get real fat in Utah with some work. I know everything is based on funding and importance but I think the perch are just left aside. [/#000000][/font]
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[font "Times New Roman"][#000000]I think that many of Utah's waters can be enhanced for many species including perch. With some structure, bottom, and management we could have fat perch populations in many spots. The trouble is finding the money and people to do these projects. Just trucking in a load of rubble or thik weeds and trees for example could improve the environment for many fishes in a small or large lake/reservoir. If the DWR currently has or plans to do something like this I would look to find free time to volunteer and help out. It doesn't just have to be for perch[/#000000][/font]. [][fishin]
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[cool]T.D., those are very valid and true points. Thank you for taking the time to write Drew about those issues. As a perch lover (both catching and dining) I am concerned about our "percheries". They are so much fun to fish for, especially during icefishing season.

I think this coming season when I want to catch perch, I'm going to give Rockport another try as I haven't been there in two seasons, and also Echo which I've never fished. Both of these places seem to be coming back from most reports, with Echo seeming to do the best last season. I am encouraged by that. I'd like to also try out Starvation this winter, but it seems like they just disappear during the winter there. Perhaps this winter will be different. I just couldn't justify the gas and two hour drive to go to Yuba to only bring home 10. Now, with scrawny perch, I really won't be going down there this year unless I can justify the time and gas to try to get a pike.
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To Drew's credit, he has just been installed as Utah's first [/b]Warm Water Biologist. He has the whole state now and has to set up a warm water program for the whole state. He will have the Bass crowd after him, the Wiper hunters, Kittykat fisherman, panfisher's, muskymen, everyone will be on his case to improve their special fishery. I think TD's assessment is on target and these kind of observations will be very helpful to Drew, but let's give the guy some time and support so that he can get things going. Right now I think that his priority is to get a warm water hatchery on line. Patience my children, everything will come to those who wait.

I think anyone who thinks we don't need limits has not looked at the hole picture...

Most lakes in Utah has poor spawning...

We also have water problems from year to years....

We have people who rip the hook out and with the air sack over full push the fish back down the ice hole to die...

And the biggest thing WHO NEEDS A 5 Gal. bucket full of perch or any other type of fish...(other then fish HOGS)

Each lake has its own problems and needs to managed for the lake its self not state wide one covers all...
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