Fishing Forum

What's Butch up to???
[url "http://www.islandparknews.net/atf.php?sid=7670&current_edition=2010-01-07"][#22229c]http://www.islandparknews.net/atf.ph...ion=2010-01-07[/#22229c][/url]
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That's very unfortunate if it ends up going through. I've been going to Harriman since I was a kid to fish, ski, hike, bike.
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That flat out SUCKS! Lew. Let us know if we can make a difference.
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As a kid, I grew up roaming the Harriman Ranch with my dogs and a fishing rod. Back then the only thing you had to worry about was surly guys on horseback and crazed Moose. Pinehaven had and about 10 cabins and I spent my summers from 7 years old tying flies for Ponds and Macks and the little gas station out front of our stretch of the River. Evelyn Ponds would keep and eye on me. Gordy McRea would throw the best Round Up Event of the year! An occasional guide trip, no license required. I was priveledged to meet Joe Brooks, Bob Jacklin, Lee Wulff, and many others as well as their wives while fishing and roaming these great stretches of water. The original Island Park ranchers and residents were some of the best people in the world! What a great place to grow up long before a park was ever thought of! 7 years ago I got a call from the Harriman Park Manger to create the cabinetry for the Big Falls (Mesa Falls Lodge) visitor center. I remember playing in it as a kid when the floor was burnt out and the roof shot full of holes. I jumped at the chance to help with the restoration. It would be to see all of that public access disapear!
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I remember reading an article by the late great Joe Brooks, fishing editor and writer for Outdoor Life for 25 years. He was asked to name his favorite 5 fishing waters in the world. After naming 5 he d and said of course I didn't mention the Henry's Fork of the Snake River because we are standing in it! The picture that accompanied the article was taken just above the Osborne Bridge.
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The link provided above gives the names and links to legislators that need to hear from us on this matter. It makes no fiscal sense to cut funding from an entity that generates so much revenue for the state that this stretch of world renown water and land does. That's to say nothing of the loss to sportsmen and others who use the area. This isn't going to be a local issue. Harriman is a world class fishery, and believe me, what happens there will be noticed by the rest of the country, and outside the country as well. There are solutions to the funding issues, besides chopping up the whole parks department, to the detriment of the parks, the people, and those employed within the department. Let's let them hear from us!
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At the bottom of the article there are links to Butch Otter's, and your legislators email. I've already sent in my thoughts on this screwed up idea. I encourage everyone here to do the same.
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[quote Biglew]The link provided above gives the names and links to legislators that need to hear from us on this matter. It makes no fiscal sense to cut funding from an entity that generates so much revenue for the state that this stretch of world renown water and land does. That's to say nothing of the loss to sportsmen and others who use the area. This isn't going to be a local issue. Harriman is a world class fishery, and believe me, what happens there will be noticed by the rest of the country, and outside the country as well. There are solutions to the funding issues, besides chopping up the whole parks department, to the detriment of the parks, the people, and those employed within the department. Let's let them hear from us![/quote]

+1 Your emails, letters and calls do make a difference!
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The Idaho Statesman reports that Otter is using the financial downturn as an excuse to forward his ideological wish list. He has long wanted to eliminate public television and Parks and Rec. among others. Sad. We, as sportsmen will suffer greatly, but future generations will also be impacted. As another column in the Statesman remarked, we can still visit these sites as long as we are wealthy and can afford the private lodges, spas, etc. that will move into these now-protected spaces. Mike
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Maybe I am reading it wrong, but I can't really see that we would lose the parks, like they say in the article. I think that Otter is just merging the department that oversees and manages the parks with the department of lands. It might get more expensive to stay in the park, but the park isn't gone. It does look like some people's jobs will be eliminated which is unfortunate.
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The Harriman stretch of the Henry's Fork is my favorite peice if fishing water I've ever fished. Ever. Anywhere. More than Florida. More than Alaska. Its just special. My roots are there. My fly fishing lessons are there. My fondest memories are there. If I had one day left to fish, I'd like to be standing in a run on "the Ranch,"
wondering how the hell I was going to get "that one" to eat my fly on the first cast!

According to the article: "The family’s gift had some conditions, including that a state agency be created to manage the park. According to the agreement between the Harriman family and the state of Idaho, the park must revert to the family should the state default on any parts of the agreement, including that of the provision of a managing agency."

And: "Otter said he wants to merge the Department of Parks and Recreation and the Department of Lands and move the state park system to user-fee based financing. He guessed that the move will save $10 million next year and $7 million in future years. The Department of Lands is mandated to manage its holdings to produce the greatest possible income. It’s land management policies are nothing like those of IDPR."

So would the state still me managing the property? Would we still have fishing access? Would it still be somewhat preserved and regulated? The part about managing for the "greatest possible income" is a bit scary.

Those are the questions I'll be watching for answers to.
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+1

From what I can see all of things that can happen if Otter has his way are bad.

1.The land could go back to the Harriman family. If that happens the family has the right to develop the land meaning it will fall to the rich and the locals will be shut out. I'm not saying the family would do that, but it opens up that possibility.

2. The state will raise fees to cover their costs for administration, programs, etc..(.My kids go there for their second grade field trip). If the fees are raised to a pay to play basis which is Otters philosophy it very likely could price out the locals from our own area. It likely would not hamper the "World Class" statis that the area has gained. It will just make it even more exclusive.

Just my opinion. Hope some other solution can be found.

Windriver
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Butch Otter was born into a large family of limited means. ... In 1964, Otter married Gay Simplot, daughter of his longtime employer, J. R. Simplot. That should some it up! Would he be anything without Simplot? He's a joke!
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Here's a link to an online petition that came to me on facebook that will be sent in to old Butch

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/save-idaho-park
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Wow not such a good post to wake up and read. Ole Butch makes me sick he is about as crooked as they come. I grew up running the banks of Harriman with a cheap south bend fly rod and a little box of my grandpas handtied flys. I sure would like my three year old to be able to do the same some day
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The state parks will not close, just the over-paid deadwood buracracy of the Parks and Rec office in Boise will lose their jobs.

I applied with those people many times, makes me glad those jerks never hired me. Good Ridance!!

Now they will not have the manpower to come up with brilliant legislation like off-road vehicle stickers, invasive species stickers, and who knows what else.

Happy Days!!
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I was hoping when I started this thread that it would spark a good discussion. To tell the truth, I don't know enough about the proposal, or the effects of what will happen if it goes through. Glad to see some opposing opinion. I hope you're better informed than I am. I'm all for trimming fat from our budgets. If we have in-effective people running departments, I'm for giving them the boot. What I am NOT in favor of is anything that will cause Harriman to revert to private hands, or to be placed out of economic reach of the people of the state and visitors. I hope this isn't a political football, that holds the parks hostage to politicians ambitions. I detest those kinds of politics. Here again, I'm not well enough informed. Those of you who are in the know, please chime in. Please keep it civil.
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+1---I grew up fishing that entire area as well and have taken my daughters and wife fishing/cross country skiing...forwarding to all of my work associates and clients!
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Here's an article from the Idaho Statesman.

Harriman deed puts Gov. Otter's plan for parks at risk
The same state park that led to the creation of Idaho's parks agency could save it today.BY ROCKY BARKER - [url "mailto:rbarker@idahostatesman.com"]rbarker@idahostatesman.com[/url]Idaho could lose one of its premier parks if lawmakers approve Gov. Butch Otter's idea to eliminate the Department of Parks and Recreation and shift some of its duties to the state Department of Lands.
The state's parks agency was created in 1965 when Roland and Averell Harriman agreed to donate the 11,000 acre "Railroad" ranch in Island Park.
The park includes scenic stretches of the Henrys Fork of the Snake River, in the shadow of the Tetons.
The Union Pacific heirs had one condition, though: Idaho had to create a professional agency to manage it and other state parks.
In a preliminary legal analysis to the parks board, the Idaho attorney general's office said that condition still stands, and the move would be very difficult to defend.
"If it went to court, the state would probably lose," board member Ernie Lombard said the board was told.
While park board members can comment on what they were told, the attorney general's office considers the communication protected under attorney-client privilege, said Bob Cooper, a spokesman for Attorney General Lawrence Wasden.
"We haven't received a request for an opinion," Cooper said.
Otter's proposal has caught the attention of the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of the two Harrimans. They are watching and considering their options, said a member of the family who did not want to be identified.
"We're all very upset the state may not want to live up to the agreement to the original deed and gift," he said.
He doesn't want the land back, but he wants the state not to step away from the responsibility it agreed to in the 1960s - to maintain and operate state parks in a way that preserves the state's natural heritage.
The family's foundation still supports parks programs, including a recent youth writing camp at Harriman State Park.
If the family did sue to get the land back, Lombard estimates the park would be worth more than $50 million today.
Until 1965, the state had three state parks managed by the Department of Lands. Now, Idaho has 30 - though Dworshak was recently transferred to county management, and the state has started looking at other partners as Otter's plans became more clear.
The Harriman deed and similar issues have been under study by Otter's staff, said David Hensley, his chief counsel.
"The governor would never jeopardize losing Harriman or any other park in this process," Hensley said.
It's one of the reasons the parks proposal was presented as "conceptual" and Otter gave the parks board and its director Nancy Merrill a chance to present alternatives.
But the governor wants the parks to become self-sufficient, Hensley said.
"While we are doing that, we have to keep the best interests of the people of Idaho in mind, especially those who access the parks."
The proposal would eliminate most of the $6 million in general taxpayer dollars the parks get.
The biggest budget savings would come from the sale of the $5 million parks headquarters on Warm Springs next to the Idaho Shakespeare Festival.
"The ultimate goal of the governor was that we have a robust discussion on this," Hensley said.
"Everything's on the table."
Rocky Barker: 377-6484

Hope we can all let our legislators know how we feel about it. Lew