It has been learned that Herbert will sign Hb-141 today, basically kicking dirt in the faces of all stream fishermen.
In spite of this regrettable outcome, Thanks to all of you that helped in fighting this ridiculous legislation. This battle will now go back to the courts and is far from over.
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Do you have a source for this information. I would like to verify it.
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I hope somebody gets something going on farmers and ranchers paying minimal taxes on property on Greenbelt. Subsidized on crops, government putting up fences. If they want all the luxuries ,,let them pay for it like we do. That will get there attention.
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yup, its signed and now law, start printing these out:
[url "http://wildlife.utah.gov/law/permissioncard.html"]http://wildlife.utah.gov/law/permissioncard.html[/url]
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[font "Times New Roman"]We need to make sure that the legislature that made this law will never be re-elect and let them know we have a voice and that rich minority can no longer rule the majority! [mad][/font]
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I caught fishing fever and now it hurts when I pee!
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I would like to see a poll on how may guys around hear ever took advantage of access. And what percentage of fishing was done in private streams.
I ask this because I stream fish almost exclusively private lands. I never noticed one guy on any of the waters I fish that was utilizing the public access clause. So I wonder how important it is to the general public to be granted this.
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i accssed (sp) private land ALOT. but i also did so legally. and was careful at what i was doing when i did..... a few simple places such as black smith fork, upper provo, weber through Morgan. hell lately i was fishing private land in Morgan every weekend! legally of course.
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GP,
I agree completely with you. Many of these landowners are basically multigenerational welfare recipents. They're so used to being parasites on society just like many intercity single parent families and the Polygs down on the Utah/ Arizona border, they think they are entitled to it. If Clinton could reform the other chronic welfare I think the time is here to address this. Sad thing is the Feds subsidize their grazing that damages our fishing and hunting on public lands.
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I wonder what city folks think of there subsidized water they drink and water there lawns with. Or subsidized pulic education there children go to. Ect Ect. We are all subsidized by the gov in one way or the other.
How about your own personal private property rights? Can my dog crap in your lawn? And may I pick fruit from your apple tree when ever I want. Is that ok? Do you not notice the litter that accompanies public fishing areas? Worm cartons, wrappers, beer cans and worse.
Go gain access and be accountable for your behavior on private lands. And those who abuse will loose.
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heres sort of a poll, i suck at these things:
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Utah_Fishing_Forum_C55/Utah_Fly_Fishing_F140/gforum.cgi?poll=1&poll_id=617&forum_id=140&poll_type=1&post_id=575936&poll_answers=3409&do%3Dpoll_vote%3Bredo%3Dpost_view_flat%3Bpost%3D575936%3Broot_post%3D575936%3Bpoll%3Dresults%3B=Vote"]http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Utah_Fishing_Forum_C55/Utah_Fly_Fishing_F140/gforum.cgi?poll=1&poll_id=617&forum_id=140&poll_type=1&post_id=575936&poll_answers=3409&do%3Dpoll_vote%3Bredo%3Dpost_view_flat%3Bpost%3D575936%3Broot_post%3D575936%3Bpoll%3Dresults%3B=Vote[/url]
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Ceedubya,
You can drive on my street and walk the public easement called a sidewalk thru my property. And yes people trash my lawn and sometimes vandalize my property but that doesn't mean I expect the State to seize the street and sidewalk to stop it. Point is the water isn't the landowners, so this is an illegal seizure and this law won't change that. You would need to change the Utah Constitution and even then this seizure would ignore American precedents continually in place since before the union forming the USA took place. So honestly if your not happy with this tradition in the US just move out. I don't think we should stand for these illegal actions. Just remember any landowner that kept people from accessing waterways from public easements was acting criminally. Vandalizing and stealing is illegal as well so confront them or call the law same as I do if I have a problem. Look I don't like ATV's but let them through on my private land within the high water mark because I understand the laws of Utah and the U.S. when I purchased it.
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They should cancel the easements above there ground to so airplanes cant fly through it.
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And you can walk on the sidewalk or drive down the streets adjacent to private property with fishing. Your house and yard are your domain. An rightfully so. You own it and you can manage it as you see fit. There is no difference is this regard between 1/2 acre in the city and 10,000 acres in the country.
Land owners should have control of there own land. Shall we open up private lands to big game hunting also?
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The 10000 acres and one acre are taxed about the same with subsidzed greenbelt.
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do the land owners own the big game? what if they were baiting to keep elk herds on their land and just never get caught, then charge outrageous fees for hunting clubs to hunt there?
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[indent]Ceedubya,
Unless the game is actually in the water hard and likely to stay there if shot this is a different issue. The landowner owns the land and crossing outside of a public access to the water is tresspassing. This also has always been illegal in the US just as a landowner blocking public from public waterways has always been illegal. But if hunters tried to have their state pass laws letting them hunt on private land it would be basically doing the same sort of thing that landowners are doing now. Both would ignore laws and precedents of the U.S. that have been continually in effect since colonial times. In my mind they both would be illegal seizures in the U.S. This was an important issue with colonalist and forming the U.S. because they didn't like how Europian Monarchies controlled access for transportation and fishing of the waterways. Maybe you elitist who don't like or understand our American traditions can get adopted into an Europian Monarchy.
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I wont need to because I have fostered relationships with a few land owners. And have access.
America was founded with private land owner rights in mind. That is one of the things that make America great. That we don't have big brother telling us how and who uses our PRIVATE PROPERTY.
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[quote ceedubya]I wont need to because I have fostered relationships with a few land owners. And have access.
America was founded with private land owner rights in mind. That is one of the things that make America great. That we don't have big brother telling us how and who uses our PRIVATE PROPERTY.[/quote]
AKA he has land himself or has family with land. Most land owners wouldnt let you get anywhere near their houses to "foster" a relationship. I've tried on Thistle and other streams.
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RE "I wont need to because I have fostered relationships with a few land owners. And have access."
I am truly happy for you. Sadly, the entities that control where my family had historically fished rivers give the public the collective "bird" when asked.
Re"America was founded with private land owner rights in mind."
Fair enough. but it was also established with certain rights of the public to the water as well, and that the landowner does NOT own the water. One set of rights did not supersede the other. Writing legislation that favors one right while disregarding the other is (besides being illegal, as we will soon enough see in court) unfair to the aggrieved party and MOST DEFINITELY NOT a good way to resolve this dispute.
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