I had posted this under another post and figured I would put it somewhere it would be viewed and discussed. The DWR has worked with every organized angler group that could be found and had interest in this issue. The DWR after working extensively with anglers has come up with the following thoughts and recommendations:
The most successful bass anglers are the folks with the equipment to pursue bass (boats and lots of tackle). Most of these types of anglers have progressed in their angling level to a more advanced catch and release mode. This is the same level of angling advancement as the trout anglers moving up to fly anglers. There is nothing wrong with either but with this progression anglers take a greater interest in conservation. The issue with this is.....over 95% of the fish caught on the Provo and the Green Rivers are being released. The size of the fish in those rivers is decreasing as the numbers of fish increase. Even though the anglers know it would be in the best interest of the fish to take some home they haven't. The same is true for our bass waters. The DWR does creel surveys on the management waters and I figured I would share some results on our bass waters.
Pineview Res. 2003 only 51 bass harvested or .5% of the estimated adult population.
Jordanelle Res. 2003 only 1972 bass harvested or 3.2% of the estimated adult population.
Deer Creek Res. 2005 only 770 bass harvested or 1.3% of the estimated adult population.
Willard Bay Res. 1998 only 334 bass harvested or .17% of the estimated adult population.
Flaming Gorge Res. 2003 only 15508 bass harvested or 1.8% of the estimated adult population.
Lake Powell Res. 2006 approximately 145,000 bass harvested or 4.8% of the estimated adult population.
Mantua Res. 2007 only 253 bass harvested or 2.5% of the estimated adult population.
We need more harvest at our bass waters of the sized fish allowed within the legal limit. We are resting at about one-half the appropriate recommended harvest rate.
As most of you know fisheries are like cookie jars. They can only hold so many cookies and those cookies can either be a bunch of cookie crumbs or some really nice cookies. Ethical angling sometimes requires taking some fish home to improve/maintain the fishery. I also believe that part of the natural progression of an angler is harvest. So in order to recruit anglers into the sport that we love, harvest needs to be part of the equation.
I would like to state that water levels and not anglers is our number 1 impact to fisheries in Utah. In good water years our fisheries respond positively. In drought cycles they repond negatively.
We currently have a large number of bass regulations in Utah. The DWR is recommending a reduction to fewer but more meaningful regulations. We can effectively reduce our limits to two main management limits.
The one limit would be 6 bass total and only one bass over 12 inches. This limit should encourage harvest of fish surrounding that 12 inch size. This regulation is recommended to be put in place on Jordanelle, Quail Creek, Gunlock, and Huntington North.
The second limit would be six bass total with no size restrictions. This would be at all other bass management waters except Lake Powell and Flaming Gorge. This limit would hopefully encourage additional pressure of bass on waters that have very limited pressure and harvest.
The DWR will continue to creel and survey all high use bass waters to determine the effectiveness of these regulations and adjust as needed.
For what it is worth. Your thoughts would be most appreciated. If you want to contact me directly please do. My phone number is 801-538-4774 or email me a [url "mailto:andrewcushing@utah.gov"]andrewcushing@utah.gov[/url]
Thanks
Drew Cushing
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On some waters that does not get much fishing away from the Wasatch front a limit of six bass may work, but places like Jordanelle, Deer creek, Pineview and others can and would be fished out of any big bass cause of the slow growth and numbers of fishermen that fish them...
Jordanelle is known for its big bass but if the DWR lets the bass over 12" to be taken home the lake will only have small bass left...
How many regs is there on the trout waters across the state????
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Thanks for posting this up top again Drew.
I appreciate your efforts and insight.
Like I said in the last post, I'll always trust the experts on this stuff. Glad you get on here and share despite the chaos that often ensues the discussions / debates on here.
Thanks again, Moose.
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Thanks. I am not sure how to respond to your comments. We have worked with both the Utah Bass Federation and the Bass Federation Nation and I assume they represent your interests. We had several reps from both organizations and discussed several different limit scenerios that would accomplish the goal of simplification and attempting to make our bass regulations more biologically meaningful. The limits are a result of hours of frank and productive discussions with those and other groups. The fact is, we are seeing very little harvest and we need harvest to better the fisheries you mentioned. If you take a look at the fisheries in the previous post you can see that very little harvest is taking place.
If you are interested and concerned about the fisheries you mentioned, we could use you help figuring out how to educate folks about the necessesity of harvesting fish.
Thanks for your support
Drew
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I think most fish under 12" are too small to filet. Make the limit 6 bass under 14" and I think more people would take more home to eat. I do not like letting people take home the bigger bass, although I think most people would release anything over 3lbs anyway.
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I dunno Walleyewiper. I have no problem filleting 8" perch. People keep 12" perch because they are good sized keepers. I think filleting a 12" bass or perch is pretty easy. Electric fillet knifes are awesome.
I personally think small 12" bass are extremely tasty. They taste as good as perch and crappie to me. Maybe I'm alone in these thoughts but I think bass taste great.
I will say this though not everyone likes to eat fish. You won't ever see me demanding you keep them if that is the case.
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WyomingMoose, Your right about filleting the bass. The table fare for young white flesh fish is next to none, no matter what the species I think that all the white fleshed fish are wayyyyy better eating than the precious trout.
Drew, if I need to keep some of the small bass in certain fisheries that I often recreate, to help the over all well being, and the the growth rates of sport fish then, I am all for it. I have thought along the lines of the anglers that want to preserve the residing fish and not looking deep enough at the big picture. Thanks for the heads up, and the specifics that we all here at BFT would not even be aware about.
I think your doing a hell of a job, and think the state of Utah is lucky to have someone looking out for out treasured sport fisheries. Thanks a bunch.[cool]
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I agree with FOD - Thanks for sharing Drew - please do not let the ensuing trolling and flaming that is bound to occur stop you from sharing. Even when faced with the facts some people will never agree.
I for one really appreciate the expert opinion you offer and I realize you are doing this on your own time. Thanks again.
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Great post, Thanks for sharing. Keep up the good work.
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I do get a little nervous about a lot of larger fish being taken, but I also agree that a lot of the waters have stunting problems and could use a little thinning. Why not keep things as they are but add that the DWR encourages harvest of bass under 12"? I started keeping some bass last year at just under the 12" mark, and they have filleted very nicely.
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Well, O.K., I will do my part and start taking home some small bass from Deer Creek this year. We catch hundreds each year in the 8 to 10 inch slot. Out of respect for bass folks, we just release them. If it will help the fishery, they will be dinner this year.
Maybe some signs at the boat ramp encouraging harvest would help.
Thanks for the info and all your hard work.
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personally this year i will harvest every bass i can, legally of course... it would be awesome to be allowed to keep one bass over 12 inches at the nelle also.
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In the past back in the 80's we had very few lakes as good as we have now with bass, and all of them had a limit of 6 bass any size... A good day of fishing was under 10 bass and most was under 12" with very very few big bass...
With all the fisherman now days fishing for bass hook mortality takes its tolls on the bigger bass, no one but the ones that want to keep and eat the bigger fish is wanting to keep them...
Can you tell us just how long it takes a bass to get to 20"???
To keep bass under 12" is good for the lakes but the bigger bass once gone is hard to get back, how about taking the size off the Berry cuts or the lake trout at the Gorge ??? What about the spear fisherman at Fish Lake that was taking out the spawners.... No keeping bass over 12" on the lakes will only hurt the bass not help...
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[quote bassrods]No keeping bass over 12" on the lakes will only hurt the bass not help...[/quote]
do you have any actual scientific data to back that statement up, or are you speaking from experiance?
does thinning out an elk herd of a few bulls here and there help or hurt?
think about it this way.... if you were allowed to keep one bass over 12 inches from the nelle, how many people would actually do it? if the limit were 14 inches or less and than one fish over 14 you can bet money i would keep all the 14 inchers for the table, and unless i caught a wall worthy hog i would throw the rest back.
try not to come at me thinking i know nothing about bass fishing, having fished in VA and landed a 14lb large mouth when i was only 13 years old was quiet a feat, so i have a vague idea (maybe along the same lines as you) about thinning out/not thinning out larger bass from lakes, but im no fishiers biologist or wildlife managment expert.
im just curious what your thoughts are.
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I am a fisherman of all species, if it swims and bites, i'll catch it. if i am hankering for fish and it's legal, i'll eat it.
I am no expert or authority on any of it. But...
I have fished a lot of states and Utah is the only one i have been in that has had the limit laws backwards. And yet, is probably the worst for over all bass numbers. It does have some good waters for larger fish, but just not the numbers.
Every other state i have fished, the bass rules is you can't keep smaller fish. You have to throw back anything under 12 or 14 inch limit. Utah is the only state i have fished that you can only keep UNDER 12".
I realize Utah definitely has challenges that other states don't with the longer/colder winters, less forage, less cover...etc.
I personally, as an angler, would rather see a larger population of the fish 14"-16 inch fish and be able to catch them frequently, than the chance to catch a single 4-6 lb fish every 6-7 trips.
The fact that there is so much passion on these subjects tells me the right decisions will be made. by law makers, blue collar anglers and tourney guys. becasue no one is going to sit back and let the wrong decisions be made.
Most all of us are outdoorsman, not just anglers, so we need to apply some of the same things we have learned in Hunting and Gun laws. fighting amongst ourselves isn't going to get us far. have your opinions, but be respectful.
Save me a fish, under 12" or over 12". as long as it tugs on my line.
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[font "Verdana"][#ff0000]If that works best for you it works great for me. The kid in me loves to keep a nice one once in awhile, the chef in me loves to keep half a dozen pan sized double breaded filets, the grownup in me realizes conservation and management keep our fisheries healthy and fine tuned, now if only the fisherman in me could keep up![/#ff0000][/font]
[font "Verdana"][#ff0000]I appreciate the job you do. Many Thanx![/#ff0000][/font]
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"Most Bass Fisherman Release Their Bass."
Everytime I Gof Fishing ... I Practice Catch & Release ... With that being said ... For those folks who like to eat fish ... there has to be an answer.
History Shows ... Keeping A 5 Bass limit over 12" on water in this state won't hurt the fishing or size of the bass being caught. It will only make it better. Idaho, Washington, Oregon, Nevada, California, Montana & Colorado ... All of these other states can't be wrong here.
We are the only state that is backwards and the reason we are backwards is because there are too many passionate bass anglers in this state who think they have the answer. They pull a big enough fit and get their way while the fish populations continue to stunt.
Myself being one of the most passionate bass fisherman & fly fisherman in the state, would like to see a "real" solution to the stunting of the fish.
Drew as usual, you are right. The cookie jars are getting packed with small bass because there is no room for them to grow.
I would like to see a better solution to this issue. A Real Solution. We've seen the numbers, we've seen the size, let's see the changes to make them bigger and better.
Personally, I would like to see 5 fish over 13" statewide.
For some of the smaller lakes I would like to see a "warmwater fish" slot limit ... and them not to be managed like a coldwater fish.
Keep up the good work Drew!
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well i live down here in southern utah fish quail sand holow and gunlock i think dwr should just put limit at 5 bass at 13inchs in at qauil and sand hollow then put gun lock res catch and release till it has a good number of bass in it . gun lock was drain last year and the restock .
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I fish Jordanelle and Deer Creek with my kids just for the bass and perch, a lot. Mantua, too. I respect your opinion and feelings, Bassrods, but let me tell you what really happens when I fish.
I catch a lot of small ones, if I catch any at all, fishing with jigs and worms from the bank. At the Nelle, if we're lucky, we'll get a couple bass for each of us in a long day of walk-in fishing, since we can't cover water like you can.. IF they happen to be about 10-12" I'll keep a few because 8-inchers" are too much trouble and the bigger ones I have to release by law. We'll catch a few just over 12" and toss them back, cuz we have to.
We NEVER catch any of the precious bigguns, or at least we never have. The only one I've seen caught from the bank (over a couple of pounds) was snuck away by the noob angler after he caught it on a live baby perch, so you that guy isn't reading or following regs anyway. (I reported him to the park ranger fellow, but they had left, and left bags of trash in their camping spot, tore down trees in the campground for firewood, etc.. )
BUT it would be AWESOME if somebody caught a BIG fish (like 17" would be a really nice one for my daughter) and wanted to take it home for bragging rights and eating pleasure. This might happen someday, at this rate.
my $ .02
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[quote walleyebob]Well, O.K., I will do my part and start taking home some small bass from Deer Creek this year. We catch hundreds each year in the 8 to 10 inch slot. Out of respect for bass folks, we just release them. If it will help the fishery, they will be dinner this year.
Maybe some signs at the boat ramp encouraging harvest would help.
Thanks for the info and all your hard work.[/quote]
I agree with this walleyebob. As for all the dissenters and people who have their 'own' opinions - I don't see why you can't just take his expert advice and opinion on this matter. I don't get how you think that you know more than the guy who does this stuff for a living.
Do as you wish - nobody is demanding you keep bass if you do not want to. The expert is merely suggesting that if you want bigger bass - harvest rates need to increase. So if you don't want to keep any fine - but why discourage others from doing it?. Just my thoughts.
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