Fishing Forum

Bucket biologists at it again. [url "http://blogs.sltrib.com/fishing/"]Tribune has a story about white bass being found in Deer Creek[/url].
[signature]

This is bad news. Looks like I need to take the toon to DC and try to rid the lake of a few as well. Haven't fished there in over 15 years.
[signature]

THEY SHOUDL SET GILL NETS!!!! IT MAY KILL SOME OTHER FISH BUT SO BE IT. [:/]
[signature]

CRAP!! What kind of brain dead moron thinks that Deer Creek needs another predator?

Hope they dont spawn, but looking at the size of that fish, they have been in there a while.
[signature]

Freekin' maroons!
[signature]

Not saying I agree with bucket biology but sometimes I'm glad afterward. I love white bass - I think it is cool that they are in another lake now. Selfish of me I know - but it might turn out for the best. Who knows. I could definitely see it causing problems though too.
[signature]

Sorry moose, but this is not a good thing, it is a stupid thing. White bass are piscivorious as adults and one reason that they are stunted at Utah Lake is that there is not a forage species for them to feed on. In the Mid West where there are both Threadfin and Gizzard Shad, they grow to average 2-3 lbs as adults. In Utah Lake, they can't get over the hump as the supply of forage fish is limited ( Lake Powell ring a bell) and competition for food is great. Most fish in Utah Lake survive on the huge numbers of insect larvae, plus young of the year of everyone. Deer Creek doesn't have the diversity of forage that Utah Lake does and all this will do, if they get a foothold is put more and more pressure on the perch. Those who did this should be dealt with severely; loss of fishing privileges for life, fines, even imprisonment. Every sportsman in Utah should be outraged and incensed about this. To bad the reward isn't more, this is an outrage !!!

This will definately destroy the fishery. All we can do as sportsmen now is catch and kill any white bass that you can and remember to report anything you know about what hapened. I too hope that they can catch this guy that did this. Now we wait to see how it all turns out.[crazy]
[signature]

[quote Therapist]In the Mid West where there are both Threadfin and Gizzard Shad, they grow to average 2-3 lbs as adults. [/quote]


So why doesn't the DWR just add shad to lakes with predatory fish? Such as Utah Lake, Pineview, Yuba, & ect.??? Seems to work well for Willard.
[signature]

You also have to look at what the shad eat. The same thing the perch eat. There is only so much to go around and then they would eat themselves out of house and home. Each environment can only hold so many fish before it crashes. example? look at Yuba. I know it can be considered a poor example.
[signature]

You have to look at what the resource is. Utah Lake is a very warm, oligitrophic lake, meaning it is very active biologically. You have huge insect hatch's, great diversity of macro invertebrates, so it produces and produces and produces. Deer Creek on the other hand, is a deep, clear, Canyon Resivoir. It is somewhat active, mesotropic in nature, but does not have the production that Utah Lake does. If you were to put shad into Deer Creek, they would become the dominate biomass and you would not have any game fish at all. You therefore have to maintain a balance between your predators and prey. Deer Creek is also managed as a two tier fishery with Rainbows on the Coldwater side and SMB, LMB, perch, and walleye on the cool/warmwater side. By the way, the walleye in Deer Creek were also illegally introduced. Perch and Crayfish provide the primary sources of food for walleye, bass, and perch. Zooplakton are the primary source for the trout. White bass will over graze the plankton, reducing the growth of everyone

Thats just Fn great, thats all DC needs. stupid people need to be hung.
[signature]

[quote Therapist] White bass are piscivorious as adults and one reason that they are stunted at Utah Lake is that there is not a forage species for them to feed on.... if they get a foothold is put more and more pressure on the perch.[/quote]

Stunted at Utah Lake? Yes, they are not trophy white bass - the complete opposite. But they are great to eat and there is plenty of them. They fight good and provide good angling opportunities. But yeah I think you are right about the perch, they might be gone - they seem gone pretty much anyways for the most part. Not enough cover for them really is there?
[signature]

[quote JustinRobinsreo][quote Therapist]In the Mid West where there are both Threadfin and Gizzard Shad, they grow to average 2-3 lbs as adults. [/quote]


So why doesn't the DWR just add shad to lakes with predatory fish? Such as Utah Lake, Pineview, Yuba, & ect.??? Seems to work well for Willard.[/quote]

A great example of this is Glendo, Wy. Our G/F department stocks large #'s of shad annually. It's a win - win situation. The walleyes are fat and 10lb+ fish are not that uncommon. They have to stock them annually because they do not reproduce naturally and die off every year - which is great because all the dead shad get eaten by our catfish.

Does Willard get stocked by the G/F or do they naturally reproduce?. Think of what Pineview Tiger's would be like if there were shad.

Anyway I don't think WB in DC is a good thing but - but it is not all bad - I like to look at the bright side of things. In 5 years you might all be fishing for them and loving it.
[signature]

I faintly remember a post a ways back (way back [crazy]) of a white bass being caught out of DC. Did a quick search and [url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=502199;page=1"]here is the post.[/url] My feelings are still the same about DC.
[signature]

[quote JustinRobinsreo][quote Therapist]In the Mid West where there are both Threadfin and Gizzard Shad, they grow to average 2-3 lbs as adults. [/quote]


So why doesn't the DWR just add shad to lakes with predatory fish? Such as Utah Lake, Pineview, Yuba, & ect.??? Seems to work well for Willard.[/quote]

"At one time both gizzard and threadfin shad were stocked in manmade impoundments to provide food for desired sport fish. It became apparent that problems caused by introduction of shad could outweigh the benefits, especially in small impoundments. To understand why these problems occur, the habits and life histories have to be taken into account. Shad spawn in the spring or early summer. The first food of shad (and most other game fish species) is microscopic animals called zooplankton and protozoa. This diet is soon supplemented by free- floating algae, called phytoplankton, and insect larvae.
Shad have a distinct advantage over other fish species because of their ability to filter large amounts of water through long, closely set gill rakers. As the water passes through the gill rakers, free-floating plants and animals are filtered out as food. This enables shad to compete much more effectively for food with other fish that rely on the same diet, such as sunfish and recently hatched bass and crappie. Shad also graze for algae and small insects over logs and other underwater objects, but their main way of feeding is simply swimming and pumping water through their mouths and out their gills.

Gizzard shad are especially prone to cause problems in very fertile bodies of water due to their ability to quickly grow so large that most predators cannot eat them. It is not uncommon for adult gizzard shad (eight inches long and larger) to comprise 60 to 80 percent of the total fish in fertile impoundments. When this happens the shad often out-compete sunfish and other young-of-year sport fish for food, and will even become so overcrowded that their body condition will decline to the point that the shad cannot produce many offspring. Since these shad will be too large for most sport fish to eat, sport fish such as bass, bream, and crappie grow and reproduce very little until most of the large shad die and the remaining shad spawn again.

Threadfin shad can also produce large numbers of offspring which will out-compete sport fish species for food. While threadfin do not grow too big for predators to eat like gizzard shad, they can still make up most of the fish biomass in a body of water due to their filter feeding ability and high reproductive rates. High densities of shad only occur in slow moving rivers, reservoirs or small impoundments with relatively high fertility rates. Water bodies with low fertility rates or which stay muddy are not conducive to filter feeders and will not support large numbers of shad."
[signature]

Terrible news!!!!
[signature]

With a few exceptions, this thread only shows how stupid anglers can be.


Mandatory kill regulations should go into place at DC for white bass. They shouldn't be there, and anglers shouldn't be rewarded for having them there.
[signature]

[quote WyomingMoose]
Does Willard get stocked by the G/F or do they naturally reproduce?.[/quote]
No, they don't need to, they do fine without being stocked. In some years, like last year, there are way too many and the catching slows because of it(just too many young of the year in the water). In those years when the balance is just right and we start seeing boils early the catching can be awesome[].
WH2
[signature]

Well thank you for the education on why shad would be a bad thing. I have always wondered because you go back east and it seems like the fishing is great due to the high number of shad. I guess that's why it's always best to leave it to the professionals.
[signature]