09-07-2010, 07:30 PM
09-07-2010, 09:02 PM
I have struggled with this alot lately. Since I was little I have been told to always catch and release. My dad was never a man who brought home fish, and always got mad at me if I brought any home. So now that im actually out on my own, Watching people take fish home, is a little frustrating to me, But then you have the logical things, like this, that tell you to take them home, to keep the population healthy and to get bigger fish. what Im now trying to practice with is being able to give out my catches without that personal feeling of shame, or actually being able to take home the fish myself(from time to time). The only part is knowing what to keep and what to release, if they are big let them go, I think everyone needs to practice that, most people I know wont keep the cookie cutters, but when they get a really big fish on, its time for dinner. Its still a confusing topic for me, Ill still probably have the catch and release mentality as long as I live, But I got to learn not to hate the keeping either.
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09-07-2010, 09:29 PM
One thing that has been done over the years in Utah is Kill off any and all other fish that have lived in the lakes and rivers long before the first people came to Utah...
We hear of the cuts that was here when the first one showed up...What did they (the fish) live on to make them that big???
And what is gone from most of the waters now???
What is the fish that sends fear in the harts of most trout fisherman in Utah???
the same little fish that is in Jordanelle, and the Berry, what is the fish I am talking about....THE CHUB!!!
Like I have said for a long time "they have to eat to get big" and big fish eat little fish...
Until we and the DWR start putting something other then trout back in some waters all we can have is a put and take of small fish fishing...
And only putting one kind of fish in all waters is not the answer...
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We hear of the cuts that was here when the first one showed up...What did they (the fish) live on to make them that big???
And what is gone from most of the waters now???
What is the fish that sends fear in the harts of most trout fisherman in Utah???
the same little fish that is in Jordanelle, and the Berry, what is the fish I am talking about....THE CHUB!!!
Like I have said for a long time "they have to eat to get big" and big fish eat little fish...
Until we and the DWR start putting something other then trout back in some waters all we can have is a put and take of small fish fishing...
And only putting one kind of fish in all waters is not the answer...
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09-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Who would want to eat a Brown Trout? They live in that warm, dirty water and the taste reflects that.
Now, a Brookie from an ice cold stream with that pink meat, Gulp, gulp and gone, got any more?
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Now, a Brookie from an ice cold stream with that pink meat, Gulp, gulp and gone, got any more?
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09-07-2010, 10:44 PM
A section of the middle Provo was opened up to bait fishing encouraging anglers to keep some of the browns. I stopped by last winter to fish a couple holes with some Gulp minnows and there was a sign stating the rules and encouraging catch and keep, the sign was altered by someone to say catch and release and bait was not allowed. Inductive reasoning allows me to believe that the flea flingers don't like bait fisherman on 'their' river. I say let them have it. I'll stand back and watch it go down the drain, lol. I just don't understand why people are so against keeping fish even when it is incredibly obvious that there are "too many cookies in the cookie jar".
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09-07-2010, 10:57 PM
why would someone do that? are the afraid the provo might turn into the weber? wait a second, there arre actually alot of larger browns and rainbows in the weber! coincidence? i think not!
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09-07-2010, 11:58 PM
I am a selective harvester by choice. I fish in part - because I and the DWR think some fish be good eatin'. I wonder many-a-time if posting a basket, or cook'n isn't rubbing someone else wrong on the topic.
I will nevertheless continue along the guildelines of DWR as far as what's legal, at the same time - I'm sure I'm guitly of other's "that's a toss back" - and when I catch the 3lb keeper, I'll let the 12 incher go.
One thing I stand by - is if I keep em, I respect em, and make a good meal out of em. Had a nice smoked-wiper-taco for lunch thanks to another angler's generosity. Kitty fritters coming tonight. Fresh corn and cornbread too.
I do respect the need to keep a fishery populated, and the bigguns need to be breedin. Hence selective harvest - not the biggest, not the smallest. But I'm not one who let's em "all get away", and if that bothers some - I'm sorry.
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I will nevertheless continue along the guildelines of DWR as far as what's legal, at the same time - I'm sure I'm guitly of other's "that's a toss back" - and when I catch the 3lb keeper, I'll let the 12 incher go.
One thing I stand by - is if I keep em, I respect em, and make a good meal out of em. Had a nice smoked-wiper-taco for lunch thanks to another angler's generosity. Kitty fritters coming tonight. Fresh corn and cornbread too.
I do respect the need to keep a fishery populated, and the bigguns need to be breedin. Hence selective harvest - not the biggest, not the smallest. But I'm not one who let's em "all get away", and if that bothers some - I'm sorry.
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09-08-2010, 12:20 PM
Maybe raising the limit on those waters where harvest would be good to 4 fish, like the statewide limit would encourage more harvest. At least the anglers who do keep fish could keep a couple of more. i have heard some complain that the fish are getting so small that keeping two doesn't make enough for a meal and they don't like to put them in the freezer until they get another two. I know some people don't like to clean fish or eat them so release is the easier option. I have tried to keep a few to help but I can't keep enough to make a difference by myself. Back a few years it was hard to catch enough under the 15" size for the Provo to keep two, now most are under the 15" size and the over 15" fish are getting harder to find. I kept a 10" female that had egg sacs and was ready to spawn, that is not a good sign.
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09-08-2010, 01:20 PM
[cool][#0000ff]The Provo River below Deer Creek is a good example. In the "olden days" it was heavily fished by all anglers...lures, flies, bait...whatever. And there was a lot of harvest. But, you know what? The average brown was at least 16" and there were plenty over twenty (it rhymes). There were lots of 5 plus pound browns and more than a few over 10 caught out of there every year. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Now the foo foo regs and the Orvis dorks have taken over the river and it is full of stunted dinks...and rafters.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Now the foo foo regs and the Orvis dorks have taken over the river and it is full of stunted dinks...and rafters.[/#0000ff]
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09-08-2010, 01:28 PM
[quote TubeDude][#0000ff]Now the foo foo regs and the Orvis dorks have taken over the river and it is full of stunted dinks.[/#0000ff][/quote]
odd, the middle weber has been taken over by this same crowd and we still manage to pull out quiet a few larger fish. even below echo there are many many more larger fish and a large majority of this same crowd fishes that section also
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odd, the middle weber has been taken over by this same crowd and we still manage to pull out quiet a few larger fish. even below echo there are many many more larger fish and a large majority of this same crowd fishes that section also
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09-08-2010, 01:49 PM
[quote bassrods]One thing that has been done over the years in Utah is Kill off any and all other fish that have lived in the lakes and rivers long before the first people came to Utah...
We hear of the cuts that was here when the first one showed up...What did they (the fish) live on to make them that big???
And what is gone from most of the waters now???
What is the fish that sends fear in the harts of most trout fisherman in Utah???
the same little fish that is in Jordanelle, and the Berry, what is the fish I am talking about....THE CHUB!!!
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Will browns target chubs on a regular basis? In the rivers I know with large populations of browns and chubs (eg fish creek just below Scofield) there are very few browns over 12-14 inches. In that case, it could be due to very low summer water levels, but it seems the browns get overrun, and they must not be eating that many chubs.
It's another story if Fish and Game decided to make native fish like Bonneville Cutts and Colorado Cutts the apex piscivorous predator in these ecosystems. However, that will take a lot of work, money, and a complete change in a philosophy, so I'm not sure it would happen any time soon.
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We hear of the cuts that was here when the first one showed up...What did they (the fish) live on to make them that big???
And what is gone from most of the waters now???
What is the fish that sends fear in the harts of most trout fisherman in Utah???
the same little fish that is in Jordanelle, and the Berry, what is the fish I am talking about....THE CHUB!!!
[/quote]
Will browns target chubs on a regular basis? In the rivers I know with large populations of browns and chubs (eg fish creek just below Scofield) there are very few browns over 12-14 inches. In that case, it could be due to very low summer water levels, but it seems the browns get overrun, and they must not be eating that many chubs.
It's another story if Fish and Game decided to make native fish like Bonneville Cutts and Colorado Cutts the apex piscivorous predator in these ecosystems. However, that will take a lot of work, money, and a complete change in a philosophy, so I'm not sure it would happen any time soon.
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09-08-2010, 01:51 PM
I was thinking the same thing Koch. As far as more ....Orvis Dorks? and tubers, well there are allot more people these days...look at the housing.
I remember a bunch of fields. Not only are the fields gone, but they aren't just one house, they are several.
A friend called me the other day and told me about a 24" he just caught on the lower. I know that is just one, but he said they were all good size and he was only there for an hour.
What is amazing is you can still find those Styro worm containers and empty bottles of Salmon Eggs![mad]
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I remember a bunch of fields. Not only are the fields gone, but they aren't just one house, they are several.
A friend called me the other day and told me about a 24" he just caught on the lower. I know that is just one, but he said they were all good size and he was only there for an hour.
What is amazing is you can still find those Styro worm containers and empty bottles of Salmon Eggs![mad]
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09-08-2010, 03:21 PM
[cool][#0000ff]Different waters...apples and oranges. Completely different waterways and ecology. Using a different water to refute a statement about any other water is not sound debating technique. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I know nothing of the Weber since I do not fish it. I used to fish the Provo along its entire length...often and effectively. I KNOW what it used to be and I KNOW what has been reported over the past few years by others who DO fish it. [/#0000ff][#0000ff]Only commenting on my observations and the evaluations of others...including fisheries biologists. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It DOES take harvest to maintain a bigger size level in any water. How much harvest is a balance between total fish population, available food supply and the numbers of fish that are removed...of all sizes.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Sorry if my "Orvis dork" comment offended you. I quit fishing some of old favorite streams when they became overrun by yuppies whose main concern seemed to be how much money they were wearing in designer fishing duds and how much they spent on rods, reels, lines and flies. Actually had a physical confrontation with a couple of them on the South Platte below Cheeseman (flies only) when I was fishing flies with a 9 foot fly rod rigged with monofilament. "THAT AIN'T FLY FISHIN'". The difference was that I was hooking big bows and browns on every cast while they just looked good waving their fairy wands. Rankled them some.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I know nothing of the Weber since I do not fish it. I used to fish the Provo along its entire length...often and effectively. I KNOW what it used to be and I KNOW what has been reported over the past few years by others who DO fish it. [/#0000ff][#0000ff]Only commenting on my observations and the evaluations of others...including fisheries biologists. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It DOES take harvest to maintain a bigger size level in any water. How much harvest is a balance between total fish population, available food supply and the numbers of fish that are removed...of all sizes.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Sorry if my "Orvis dork" comment offended you. I quit fishing some of old favorite streams when they became overrun by yuppies whose main concern seemed to be how much money they were wearing in designer fishing duds and how much they spent on rods, reels, lines and flies. Actually had a physical confrontation with a couple of them on the South Platte below Cheeseman (flies only) when I was fishing flies with a 9 foot fly rod rigged with monofilament. "THAT AIN'T FLY FISHIN'". The difference was that I was hooking big bows and browns on every cast while they just looked good waving their fairy wands. Rankled them some.[/#0000ff]
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09-08-2010, 03:37 PM
[quote TubeDude][cool][#0000ff]Different waters...apples and oranges. Completely different waterways and ecology. Using a different water to refute a statement about any other water is not sound debating technique. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I know nothing of the Weber since I do not fish it. I used to fish the Provo along its entire length...often and effectively. I KNOW what it used to be and I KNOW what has been reported over the past few years by others who DO fish it. [/#0000ff][#0000ff]Only commenting on my observations and the evaluations of others...including fisheries biologists. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It DOES take harvest to maintain a bigger size level in any water. How much harvest is a balance between total fish population, available food supply and the numbers of fish that are removed...of all sizes.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Sorry if my "Orvis dork" comment offended you. I quit fishing some of old favorite streams when they became overrun by yuppies whose main concern seemed to be how much money they were wearing in designer fishing duds and how much they spent on rods, reels, lines and flies. Actually had a physical confrontation with a couple of them on the South Platte below Cheeseman (flies only) when I was fishing flies with a 9 foot fly rod rigged with monofilament. "THAT AIN'T FLY FISHIN'". The difference was that I was hooking big bows and browns on every cast while they just looked good waving their fairy wands. Rankled them some.[/#0000ff][/quote]
I 100% agree. I have dealt with many elitest attitudes on the water as well. The one thing I will not do is let a self proclaimed "elitest" guilt me into releasing fish.
Having said that, I release 90% of my fish.
Different waters have different solutions. I am not sure why its so hard for the "dorks" to figure this out lol...
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[#0000ff]I know nothing of the Weber since I do not fish it. I used to fish the Provo along its entire length...often and effectively. I KNOW what it used to be and I KNOW what has been reported over the past few years by others who DO fish it. [/#0000ff][#0000ff]Only commenting on my observations and the evaluations of others...including fisheries biologists. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]It DOES take harvest to maintain a bigger size level in any water. How much harvest is a balance between total fish population, available food supply and the numbers of fish that are removed...of all sizes.[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff][/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]Sorry if my "Orvis dork" comment offended you. I quit fishing some of old favorite streams when they became overrun by yuppies whose main concern seemed to be how much money they were wearing in designer fishing duds and how much they spent on rods, reels, lines and flies. Actually had a physical confrontation with a couple of them on the South Platte below Cheeseman (flies only) when I was fishing flies with a 9 foot fly rod rigged with monofilament. "THAT AIN'T FLY FISHIN'". The difference was that I was hooking big bows and browns on every cast while they just looked good waving their fairy wands. Rankled them some.[/#0000ff][/quote]
I 100% agree. I have dealt with many elitest attitudes on the water as well. The one thing I will not do is let a self proclaimed "elitest" guilt me into releasing fish.
Having said that, I release 90% of my fish.
Different waters have different solutions. I am not sure why its so hard for the "dorks" to figure this out lol...
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09-08-2010, 03:59 PM
ill make sure to stay out of yalls way when im out fishing since you basically stero typed everyone who fly fishes in less than a paragraph.
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09-08-2010, 04:10 PM
Kochanut:
Relax, I occasionally fly fish as well. I am sure you are one of the good guys. Most people I meet out fishing are really good.
I tie flies. own a couple of fly rods as well....
There is some good fishing up my way and I would help you out if you ever decided to fish up this way...
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Relax, I occasionally fly fish as well. I am sure you are one of the good guys. Most people I meet out fishing are really good.
I tie flies. own a couple of fly rods as well....
There is some good fishing up my way and I would help you out if you ever decided to fish up this way...
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09-08-2010, 04:10 PM
[#0000ff]Sorry if my "Orvis dork" comment offended you. I quit fishing some of old favorite streams when they became overrun by yuppies whose main concern seemed to be how much money they were wearing in designer fishing duds and how much they spent on rods, reels, lines and flies. Actually had a physical confrontation with a couple of them on the South Platte below Cheeseman (flies only) when I was fishing flies with a 9 foot fly rod rigged with monofilament. "THAT AIN'T FLY FISHIN'". The difference was that I was hooking big bows and browns on every cast while they just looked good waving their fairy wands. Rankled them some.[/#0000ff]
[#000000]I agree with you on the Orvis dorks, and the best part is I am one!! I grew up only fly fishing, literally. When I first went to scout camp at age twelve I had to have a fried show me how to rig up a worm and bobber to catch the fish in the lake! I'll never forget the "I thought you knew how to fish!!?" comment I got from him.[/#000000]
Anyway, I agree with your statement though. I now fish in cutoff shorts and sandals during the summer, just to get the strange looks from my "companions" in their expensive waders, and the whole getup. My rod is still an expensive one, the whole set up is about $800. But all that other crap isn't really needed, and I am sick of looking at all the duded up geeks, just to go fishing!
I don't keep brown trout mainly because they just aren't that good to eat. But I will do my duty if I must, and I will smoke them now I got a decent little electric smoker, they are pretty good then.
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[#000000]I agree with you on the Orvis dorks, and the best part is I am one!! I grew up only fly fishing, literally. When I first went to scout camp at age twelve I had to have a fried show me how to rig up a worm and bobber to catch the fish in the lake! I'll never forget the "I thought you knew how to fish!!?" comment I got from him.[/#000000]
Anyway, I agree with your statement though. I now fish in cutoff shorts and sandals during the summer, just to get the strange looks from my "companions" in their expensive waders, and the whole getup. My rod is still an expensive one, the whole set up is about $800. But all that other crap isn't really needed, and I am sick of looking at all the duded up geeks, just to go fishing!
I don't keep brown trout mainly because they just aren't that good to eat. But I will do my duty if I must, and I will smoke them now I got a decent little electric smoker, they are pretty good then.
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09-08-2010, 05:04 PM
[quote kochanut]jesus... ill make sure to stay out of yalls way when im out fishing since you basically stero typed everyone who fly fishes in less than a paragraph.[/quote]
[cool][#0000ff]Peace.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]No need for either side to take this to the mat...like they do on fly fishing forums. Not stereotyping but it is laughable to read the rants of some folks who are so determined to bash their elitist beliefs into the minds of the non-believers. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There is generally plenty of room on most waters for folks to enjoy their fishing however they want it. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Getting back to the original issue of this thread...it is not valid to lump all waters under one generalized management program. And, as long as there are mindless numbskulls who persist in poaching, fishing with bait in restricted waters, over harvesting and keeping fish inside slot restrictions it will be difficult to really manage any fishery to its ideal productivity.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I try not to bash anybody who fishes differently than I do...and I do not appreciate others who throw rocks at me for the ways I fish...or whether or not I keep and consume. I stay within the laws and I do practice selective harvest. I release far more fish than I ever keep and that is generally more than most anglers catch in a year. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I also do not believe in hot spotting small or fragile fisheries that cannot withstand more pressure. But I get a lot of PMs chastizing me even for posting reports on lakes like Utah Lake or Starvation...and for showing baskets full of the fish I keep. I feel sorry for people who think it is their sole responsibility in life to police the actions of others and to bash them for not believing as they do.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]CRASH! Just fell off my soapbox...errr float tube. [/#0000ff]
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[cool][#0000ff]Peace.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]No need for either side to take this to the mat...like they do on fly fishing forums. Not stereotyping but it is laughable to read the rants of some folks who are so determined to bash their elitist beliefs into the minds of the non-believers. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]There is generally plenty of room on most waters for folks to enjoy their fishing however they want it. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Getting back to the original issue of this thread...it is not valid to lump all waters under one generalized management program. And, as long as there are mindless numbskulls who persist in poaching, fishing with bait in restricted waters, over harvesting and keeping fish inside slot restrictions it will be difficult to really manage any fishery to its ideal productivity.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I try not to bash anybody who fishes differently than I do...and I do not appreciate others who throw rocks at me for the ways I fish...or whether or not I keep and consume. I stay within the laws and I do practice selective harvest. I release far more fish than I ever keep and that is generally more than most anglers catch in a year. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I also do not believe in hot spotting small or fragile fisheries that cannot withstand more pressure. But I get a lot of PMs chastizing me even for posting reports on lakes like Utah Lake or Starvation...and for showing baskets full of the fish I keep. I feel sorry for people who think it is their sole responsibility in life to police the actions of others and to bash them for not believing as they do.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]CRASH! Just fell off my soapbox...errr float tube. [/#0000ff]
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09-08-2010, 05:20 PM
100% on the stereotyping!!!! What does the label on the waders have to do with anything. What does having money to afford them have to do with anything...There is more NON fly fishing elitism here, honest to gawd!
The post is about harvesting and has turned into " I am better than you" B.S.
You want to get technical, you will probably see way m ore SIMMS on the rivers than Orvis.
About the harvesting...I hear all the time to take a few home. Besides, a nice Creel adds to that.......look.
Not all ORVIS people are newbies folks.
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The post is about harvesting and has turned into " I am better than you" B.S.
You want to get technical, you will probably see way m ore SIMMS on the rivers than Orvis.
About the harvesting...I hear all the time to take a few home. Besides, a nice Creel adds to that.......look.
Not all ORVIS people are newbies folks.
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