Fishing Forum

[size 4]The two main baitfish species used for Striped Bass Fishing are the Gizzard and Threadfin shad.[/size]

Shad are usually found in large, constantly moving schools. Shad are soft, elongated fish without sharp spines. They have a distinctive long threadlike last dorsal fin ray observed on the back of the fish.

Shad serve as the principal forage for Black bass, Striped bass, White Bass, Hybrids and Crappie.

The scales on both species are small and come off easily, and both species are relatively hard to keep alive in live-wells or tanks. Both species have a bluish gray back and greenish or silver tinge overall, only threadfin have a yellow colored tail.

The upper and lower jaws of threadfin meet in a pointed snout. The gizzard shad has a blunt snout with the lower jaw set behind the upper jaw.

[center]
[left]They also differ in growth rates and maximum size with adult threadfin usually reaching
five to seven inches, while adult gizzard shad can grow to well over 12 inches.
[left]

[center][url "http://www.arkansasstripers.com/shad-keeper.htm"]Shad Keeper Concentrate[/url] [url "http://www.arkansasstripers.com/live_bait_and_bait_rigs_for_stripers.htm"]Live Bait and Bait Rigs[/url]
[center]

[left]Gizzard and threadfin Shad start life together feeding on plankton in open surface water.
Threadfin remain in open water during their entire life, moving shallow to spawn or forced into shallow cover by predator attacks. The preferred escape mechanism for threadfin is schooling where protection for individual shad comes from hiding within the large school.
With time and growth, dietary needs change and gizzard shad seek the bottom. Gizzard shad mouthparts are best equipped for foraging and filter feeding on algae and disintegrated or eroded matter that is siphoned off the sandy bottom avoiding thick weeds. Shad move in and out of shallow coves in an unhurried peaceful search for food.
[left]For most people it is hard to distinguish between the gizzard the threadfin,
Easy way is to look at the lower Jaw. The threadfin shad's lower jaw protrudes out farther than the top jaw. Also the threadfin with exhibit yellowing fins except for the dorsal .
[left]
[left]

[center]
[center]

[left][font "Verdana"][size 3][/size][/font]

[center][font "Verdana"]Gizzard shad[/font]
Very abundant and common bait fish used in Arkansas. They are easy to acquire, but are a demanding bait to keep lively. Named for the gizzard which helps them process the microorganisms that they feed on, they typically range from 4-14 inches as bait. Larger gizzard shad can be found (up to 2 lbs), but only the largest of Striped Bass, 40 lbs and bigger, can manage to choke one of that size down. Gizzard shad can be found nearly anywhere on any lake, but they prefer shallow, muddy water.
Gizzards can be caught on shallow, sandy flats or shallow, turbid (stained or muddy) coves off of the main channel. Don't be afraid to look in water as shallow as 1 foot. Water temperature plays a large role in locating this bait. Find warmer water and you've just found bait. Key things to look for when spotting bait is the telltale flip that shad do on the surface and muddy water where feeding shad are present. Whether it is summer or winter, they can be found in these areas. Below any dam is also a place to find an abundance of gizzards.
Gizzard shad are very dirty baitfish. If your tank doesn't have sufficient filtering , you won't keep them for more than a couple of hours. When first placed in the bait tank, they will lose their outer coat of slime, quickly clogging any kind of filter. Use one cup of salt per 20 gallons to counter this slime loss. Filtering the slime is only half of the battle. Gizzards have what you might call a bowel problem. If your filter won't remove large amounts of fecal matter, ammonia will build to toxic levels and your bait will die. If you don't have a filter change water (about half of the tank capacity) every hour or so depending on water temperature.
[url "http://www.arkansasstripers.com/spawning-habits-gizzard-shad.htm"]Spawning Characteristics of Gizzard Shad[/url]:
Gizzard shad begin spawning when water temperatures reach 70 °F and continue to do so until the water reaches 77 °F.
Gizzard shad of all ages are extremely fragile, and handling them or keeping them in captivity for controlled laboratory testing is difficult even under the best of circumstances (Shoemaker 1942; Bodola 1965; Reutter and Herdendorf 1974); consequently, many specific habitat requirements can only be assumed from field observations, and few or no quantitative data are available for most habitat variables. Comprehensive life history and habitat information was given by Bodola (1965), Jester and Jensen (1972), and Miller (1960). Conditions for gizzard shad populations are optimal in warm, fertile, shallow bodies of water with soft mud bottoms, high turbidity, and relatively few predators (Miller 1960; Zeller and Wyatt 1967). In fact, lacustrine habitats with these characteristics are the most likely to become overpopulated with gizzard shad. Factors contributing to this problem are the gizzard shad's high reproductive capacity, rapid growth rate, and efficient and direct use of plankton (Hubbs 1934; Miller 1960; Bodola 1965). Moderate to heavy predation by large game species, fluctuating water levels, deep clear water, and steep shorelines (factors that are less than optimal for many species) tend to be associated with lower gizzard shad populations.
[center]
[center](More on [url "http://www.arkansasstripers.com/gizzard-shad.htm"]Gizzard Shad[/url] )

[center]
[center]
[center]

[center]
[center]



[center]
Threadfin Shad


[center]Threadfin shad rival gizzard shad in population. In warmer southern impoundments, they most likely outnumber them. Rarely reaching a maximum length of over 7 inches, common range is 3-6. This is a bait which schools so tightly sometimes that your cast net will come to a complete stop on a school of them. Quite often the school will blank out your depthfinder making it impossible to read the bottom. A semi-tropical species, they cannot survive water temperatures below 45 degrees. Thus, during harsh winters, massive die-offs occur.
[center]As widespread as the gizzard shad, but perhaps more concentrated in certain areas at times. They will relate to deep water much more readily than the gizzard. Usually very available year-round.
[center]Much of the time, threadfins will mix in with gizzard shad. They will seek warmer water as a general rule. Coves and inlets are good areas to look. Threadfin, like gizzards, perform the shad flip on the surface, making them easy to spot on calm days. From late spring to early fall, below the dams during times of generation is also an excellent place.
[center]Somewhat delicate, if taken proper care of, threadfins do very well in a tank. They can be kept at numbers of 2-4 per gallon of water. Use salt for threadfin.
[center]
[center](More on [url "http://www.arkansasstripers.com/threadfin-shad.htm"]THREADFIN SHAD[/url])
[center]
[center]
[signature]

Nice read[cool] So did we get a threadfin then gizzard shad population at mead or did they show up together?
[signature]

Thank you Toby-
Good stuff.
[signature]

[left]

[left]Lake Mead was impounded in 1935 following the completion of Boulder Dam. Prior to the dam, the Colorado river had carp, channel catfish and four endemic nongame fish. In 1954, threadfin shad were introduced and the largemouth bass fishery flourished. In 1969, the largemouth fishing was waning and the management was changed to a two- stage reservoir with warmwater fish stocked in the shallow shoreline zones and coldwater fish stocked into the deep coldwater zones. A total of seven trout species and one warmwater species (stripers) were introduced. By 1974, reproduction of the striped bass was documented and the trout fishery began to wane. In 1983, trout stocking was discontinued for a seven-year period while the striped bass reigned supreme. In 1999, two new species, smallmouth bass and blue Tilapia, were documented in the lake.




Gizzard shad are a new addition. I expect them to start becoming more abundant over then next 4 or 5 years. They are in Powell now too, I think.

The Whizzle
[signature]
[left]

I think N.D.O.W. documented the gizzard shad as early as 2007.

-4poundonly-
Here's the link for more info.
[url "http://www.ndow.org/fish/where/waters/south/2007/10_LAKE%20MEAD.pdf"][/url][url "http://www.ndow.org/fish/where/waters/south/2007/10_LAKE%20MEAD.pdf[/url"]http://www.ndow.org/fish/where/waters/south/2007/10_LAKE%20MEAD.pdf[/url[/url]]

Also is attached pdf file.

[left]

[size 3][/size]History [/u]- Lake Mead was impounded in 1935 following the completion of Boulder Dam. Prior to the dam, the Colorado river had carp, channel catfish and four endemic nongame fish. In 1954, threadfin shad were introduced and the largemouth bass fishery flourished. In 1969, the largemouth fishing was waning and the management was changed to a two- stage reservoir with warmwater fish stocked in the shallow shoreline zones and coldwater fish stocked into the deep coldwater zones. A total of seven trout species and one warmwater species (stripers) were introduced. By 1974, reproduction of the striped bass was documented and the trout fishery began to wane. In 1983, trout stocking was discontinued for a seven-year period while the striped bass reigned supreme. In 1995, two new species, smallmouth bass and blue Tilapia, were documented in the lake. [/size]


The gizzard shad came from Lake powell along with the sm bass. We got their fish now we just need their water too.
[signature]

[quote iamthesmf]The gizzard shad came from Lake powell along with the sm bass. We got their fish now we just need their water too.[/quote]



I have talked to a group of bass fisherman that said they spent a few years (06 /07/ 08) traveling to Newcastle Lake in Utah, filling their livewells with 10 or 15 smallmouth bass each, and driving them to Overton and Echo.

Bucket Biologists usuallty aren't welcome here, but this is one situation I'm not blowing the whisle on[#000000][size 4]![/size][/#000000]
[signature]

Waynes Words site .....

[center][size 4][url "http://www.wayneswords.com/tips.htm#smallmouth"]Lake Powell Smallmouth Story[/url][/size] The smallmouth story is very interesting. It was my first year raising bass at the Wahweap hatchery (1982). The priorities were to stock two other lakes in Utah and if any fish were left over then we could stock Lake Powell. As luck would have it our production was small and only enough bass to stock one lake were produced. The pond was lowered and fish placed in a net enclosure overnight to await the arrival of the airplane the next day which would take them to their final destination. When the plane arrived we noticed that some of the bass had escaped through a small hole. The choices were to send the fish we had or spend another half day draining the pond again to recover what turned out to be 2000 fish. Being young and full of vigor I took it upon myself to decide the most cost effective approach would be to send the airplane with the majority of the harvest. It wasn't worth another days airplane rent to send another 2000 fish. The next day I drained the pond and put the 3000 two inch fish in Crosby Canyon. Turns out had I asked for permission to do this it would not have been granted. In fact, my Chief of Fisheries began clutching his chest and gasping for breath when informed of the stocking in a routine report a month later. There was no agency approval within Utah or any agreement with any other state or federal agency to do this and if I had not blundered along in my innocent naivety I doubt that smallmouth would ever have made it into Lake Powell. We had to ask forgiveness for this one and it has NEVER been given. But, Oh! what a fishery has developed.
[signature]

Here's more from Waynes Words ....

[center][#0000ff][size 7]GIZZARD SHAD IN LAKE POWELL[/size][/#0000ff]

---

[center][#800080][size 5]CURRENT STATUS OF GIZZARD SHAD IN LAKE POWELL[/size][/#800080]
[font "Verdana"]In 2007, we find gizzard shad have occupied all of Lake Powell. It really only took 3 years for the migration of shad to reach from the upper San Juan to the dam all the way to the headwaters of the Colorado River. In netting samples during November 2006, gizzard shad accounted for almost as much fish flesh as striped bass. The largest shad caught to date came from Wahweap bay. The huge shad was 19.25 inches long and weighed 2.8 pounds. Gizzard shad grew to larger size than normal in the fertile waters found during 20003-2006.[/font] [font "Verdana"]While threadfin numbers crashed in 2006 in response to heavy predation from massive numbers of adult game fish, gizzard shad adults continued to become more numerous. There are no natural predators for big gizzard shad. They just get big and eat algae and detritus off the bottom. Large numbers of adults are needed to provide the new crop of shad each spring that all game fish depend on for growth and survival. With threadfin presently low in numbers, the progeny of gizzard shad will provide needed food fish during the critical spring months. There may not be enough shad to go around in 2007 but the presence of gizzard shad will provide at least some food to keep the fisheries on track for the near term. [/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3] [/size][/font]

---

[font "Verdana"][#0000ff][size 5]Gizzard Shad- Background Information[/size][/#0000ff][/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3]One single adult gizzard shad was collected from Lake Powell in 2000 near the San Juan inflow. [/size][/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3]While the origin of the new species in Powell is unknown it has been reported by US Fish and Wildlife Service that gizzard shad were accidentally introduced into Morgan Lake near Shiprock, NM with a shipment of largemouth bass in 1998. The bass came from Inks Dam National Fish Hatchery in south-central Texas in the Rio Colorado drainage where gizzard shad are abundant in the surface water used at the hatchery. Subsequent loads of bass transported to Morgan Lake from the hatchery were found to have as many as 9 different species besides largemouth bass (fish species included Guadalupe bass, logperch, gizzard shad, white bass, bluegill, and dollar sunfish). These shipments were refused but gizzard shad were already firmly established in Morgan Lake. Logistics prevent shad from being chemically removed from Morgan Lake which is an important sport fishery on the Navajo Reservation. The 1200 acre lake provides water to the APS power plant near Shiprock. Lowering the lake would require the power plant to be shut down for an extended period. Poisoning fish without lowering the lake would block intakes with dead fish and effectively shut down the power plant, as well.[/size][/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3]No gizzard shad were found in Lake Powell during 2001. [/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]The San Juan inflow (pictured here) was the site of gizzard shad access to Lake Powell. [/size][/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3]During routine fish sampling in August 2002 on Lake Powell's upper San Juan arm six gizzard shad were collected. Shad averaged 4 inches and were suspected to be naturally reproduced within the lake. [/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3] [/size][/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3]Gill nets set from the mouth of the San Juan (Jacks Arch) to Neskahi Canyon in July 2003 collected 78 adult gizzard shad. Downlake movement of the new species is confirmed as they are present and commonly found in the entire San Juan arm. Sampling was expanded both up and down lake from the mouth of San Juan to find out how far shad have moved. [/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]During August 2003 gill nets set in Gunsight Canyon (Padre Bay) captured one adult gizzard shad. This fish confirmed the presence of gizzard shad in the main stem from Padre Bay to the mouth of the San Juan. [/size][/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3]Gillnets set in November 2003 confirmed the presence of gizzard shad in Good Hope Bay.[/size][/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3]The new shad species is now established Lake-wide during Fall 2003. We were surprised at the large size of the shad. Average length was 11 inches and they weighed one-half pound. The largest shad collected was 15 inches and weighed over a pound-and-a-half. While the shad are not overly long their robust girth makes them too large to fit a 2-pound stripers' mouth. These adult fish will be able to roam freely through Lake Powell without fear of predation. This free movement will, perhaps, quicken establishment of the gizzard shad in the entire lake.[/size][/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3]Gizzard shad grow quickly and attain a much larger size than threadfin which, to this point, were the only shad in Lake Powell. By 2005, some adults were now 18 inches long and weighed 2-pounds. The rapid growth means that largemouth and smallmouth bass are able to eat shad for only a short time each spring. Then shad and young bass may actually compete for the same limited planktonic food.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Striped bass are the dominant predator in Lake Powell and have for decades decimated shad numbers. Some years threadfin have been totally eliminated from the open water where stripers prefer to feed. In other years, shad numbers have been cropped as newly hatched shad are eaten almost as fast as they enter open water in search of food. Gizzard shad will grow large enough to provide a bigger ration of food for stripers for a longer period of time. It may be that striped bass size and condition will increase as the gizzard shad become widespread and fully established.[/size][/font]
[font "Verdana"][size 3]DESCRIPTION[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Characteristics: [#0000ff]GIZZARD SHAD[/#0000ff][/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3] [/size][/font][font "Verdana"][size 3]Coloration: Back silvery blue, somewhat iridescent; sides silvery above, whitish below; abdomen white. Fins darkened. Dark purplish spot about the size of the eye present immediately behind the upper end of the gill opening in y-o-y. Spot becomes obsolete and disappears with age.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Mouth: small subterminal, slightly overhung by the rounded snout. Centrally notched upper jaw protrudes slightly beyond lower jaw. Maxillary reaching below the anterior margin of the eye. Gill rakers long, slender[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Body: Deep strongly compressed laterally. Average TL 225-350 mm. Scales large, cycloid , deciduous. Lateral line lacking. Median lateral series of scales 61 (52-70). Ridge of sawlike ventral scutes on abdomen.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Diagnosis: Gizzard Shad differ from Threadfin Shad by: subterminal mouth with a distinct notch in upper jaw; a much shorter dorsal fin filament; absence of black pigment on the chin and floor of mouth; more than 17 midventral scutes in the prepelvic series; more scales in the lateral series; more anal fin rays.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Biology: Schooling, juveniles in quiet surface waters, adults near bottom. Spawn at night in spring, in shallows. Eggs randomly scattered adhere to plants, rocks or firm substrate. Temps 10-22C, peaks at 19-22C. Six week spawning period. Most spawn at age II. Fecundity 22,000 to 350,000. Incubation 2-4 days. Buoyant larvae become plankton. Life span 4-6 years, few live beyond age III. Adult die-offs common. Adults bottom filter feeding detritivors principally from littoral zones. Open water fish have mostly phytoplankton and sand for digestion. Juveniles planktivorous.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Preferred temp is 22.8-23.9C[/size][/font]

---

[font "Verdana"][size 3]CHARACTERISTICS: [#0000ff]THREADFIN SHAD[/#0000ff][/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Color: back dark gray to bluish black; sides and abdomen silvery. [/size][/font][font "Verdana"][size 3]Eye spot: distinct spot smaller than eye behind gill. Always present.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Fins: yellowish, except the dorsal; caudal deeper yellow.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Mouth: terminal - bottom lip protruding; bottom of mouth cavity with black spots; maxillary in front of eye margin[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Body: Deep, strongly compressed laterally. Average TL less than 110 mm. Scales cycloid, deciduous. Lateral line lacking. Median lateral series of scales 40-48. Ridge of sawlike ventral scutes on abdomen. Dorsal Fin filament: long, reaches almost to caudal, TL adults: <110 mm[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Scale count: median series, 40-48[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3][/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Fin ray counts: dorsal 14, anal 20-25,[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Biology: usually congregating in large schools over deep water in daylight hours, moving to shallower water at night. Sensitive to cool temperature, swimming ability decreases below 12 C. Death occurs at 5C. Spawning occurs shortly after dawn along shore over weeds or driftwood with temperatures between 21-26 C. Adhesive eggs attach to first item touched. Fecundity is 900 to 21K[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Feeding: Select limnetic particulate zooplankton and filter feed on smaller plankton.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Longevity: Seldom older than 2-3 years.[/size][/font]

---

[font "Verdana"][#0000ff][size 3]MANAGEMENT IMPLICATIONS[/size][/#0000ff][/font][font "Verdana"][size 3]Lake Powell is forage limited with striped bass reproducing without limit and smallmouth being perfectly matched with the rocky habitat. Predators outnumber prey. Striped bass have suffered periods of malnutrition when threadfin have been eliminated from the open water by predation. Smallmouth growth slows when shad are not available to supplement their crayfish diet.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Gizzard shad have the potential to fit well with the existing threadfin population. Threadfin are open water plankton feeders as adults while gizzard shad feed mostly on plant life and debris on the bottom. There is an overlap between young threadfin, gizzards and young bass for the same plankton in the same shallow water in spring and summer. Once that hurdle is cleared surviving sport fish should grow much better with an additional large-bodied forage fish that is long lived.[/size][/font] [font "Verdana"][size 3]Gizzard shad life history indicates a preference for stained, turbid water. Most of Lake Powell is clear open water better suited for threadfin dominance. The inflow areas are classic gizzard shad habitat. These productive areas are already the most important threadfin production spots. Now these zones must be shared with a new shad. The outcome of shad population development depends on how far and fast gizzard shad colonize open clear water after leaving the turbid zone to forage for plankton.[/size][/font]

[signature]

Thanks guys [cool] too bad we cant get powells walleyes and crappies mabye one day.
[signature]

We have Crappies...

[left]
[center][size 3]Black crappie can be taken in the Overton Arm, Muddy River Arm and/or Virgin River Arm at night with live bait such as shiners and/or jigs. Fish against rock walls and in brushy areas. [/size]


Oh, nevermind there's no water there now.
[signature]

Well I did see they are listed as a species in mead but never caught one or never saw anyone else with one I havent even seen pictures of mead crappie I suspect it dosent get cold enough to have a huge population of papermouths. Thanks for the info[cool]
[signature]

[url "http://www.lakemeadsymposium.org/a3/a3.htm"]http://www.lakemeadsymposium.org/a3/a3.htm[/url]
[signature]