Fishing Forum

I email F&G here in Idaho about this question and received two answers.


To: IDFGINFO
Subject: Winter fish release

This message was sent from the IDFG website.

Can you tell me if laying a fish on snow or ice for a picture is detrimental to their survival? Are there any studies on delayed mortality and ice fishing or sever cold conditions? Is shock a factor, or do the gills and mucous layer receive injury? Is there a "best" surface to use?
Thank you

First Answer:

Subject: FW: Winter fish release

We don’t recommend that you place the fish on the ground if you are going to release it after you take the picture.

These are our recommendations for photographing your catch to give them the best chance at survival after release:

Taking Photographs (2011-2012 Fishing Rules, page 47)

Photographs of a trophy catch can provide priceless memories of a great fishing trip, but anglers should use care to take the
photo responsibly. Here are things you can do to capture that special image and allow the fish to fight another day (remember
– sturgeon can’t be removed from the water):

• Have the camera ready and the shot framed before removing the fish from the water.

• When lifting a fish from the water wet your hands before touching the fish and support the fish with both hands as
you gently lift it from the water.

• Strive to hold the fish over the water so if it struggles from your hands it will fall back in the water and not onto a hard
surface such as a rock or a boat floor.

• Hold the fish out of the water only as long as it takes to take a picture.

idfginfo
Second Answer:


Sent: Monday, December 27, 2010 8:17 AM
To: IDFGINFO
Subject: RE: Winter fish release

How long can you hold your breath?? It’s the same for a fish when you take it out of the water – any amount of time the fish is out of water is stressful, so you want to be prepared for the picture prior to removing the fish from the water. See page 47 in our 2011 – 2012 Fishing Rules for tips on photographing your fish prior to release.

Removing fish from the water and laying them on snow is probably the least stressful time and way to photograph a fish. Because fish in Idaho are cold-blooded, their metabolism slows in the winter and their oxygen demand is lowered. They are also less likely to be affected by external bacterial diseases due to breaking their slime layer or scale loss. Just don’t let them freeze to a metal or other hard surface. This will definitely cause a significant loss of scales and slime make them more susceptible to diseases.

David Parrish
Idaho Dept. of Fish and Game
Resident Fishery Program Coordinator

Looks like snow is ok, but I would be careful with ice. I would think that wet ice is better than super cold or ice that is dry. Looks like snow is ok.
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hey thanks for the info!!!
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I wish I could find the info but laying fish on the ice/snow is in fact bad. I'll see if I can dig up the info tonight!
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I had previously thought it was bad also, but I guess if you fish in the winter at all, there will be some times that you will need to set the fish down somewhere.

It seems that according to the biologists it is best not to set them down if possible. Just release in the water, but if you do want a picture, then snow or a wet surface is ok.

In making this post it isn't my intent to argue or attack anyone. I just want to post the facts that I have found for others to see also. If we fish at all, then all of us must release some fish that are too small, or we have our limit in that species. It seems reasonable to take the best care we can of the resource.
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Thanks for taking the time to get a response.

Windriver
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Ok with a little help I finally was able to track down the info I was after. This is not an IDFG [#ff0000]edited[/#ff0000] crappy response either.


"That is a very nice fish. I hope it was a warm day in the 40's. If you take a cold blooded fish that is in 34-38 degree water and lay it on snow, the skin will rapidly assume the temperature of the snow as will the eye on the side of the fish next to the snow. The result is what we call frostbite on humans but since they warm blooded animals it happens fairly slowly. On fish, going from 34 to 30 degrees happens very quickly.

When it is colder, say below 25, the fish opens it's mouth trying to take "a breath' and the cold air hits it's gills causing them to freeze which causes hemorrhaging once the fish is put back in the water and released. In both situations above, mortality is delayed for hours or days. Some fish can live a long time with only one eye.

I am not against fish porn and have taken my fair share of pictures in the past, but if it is below 32 degrees the best choice is to not remove the fish from the water and never lay the fish on the bank in any weather unless you are going to bonk them and eat them, then no harm, no foul.
"
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Then the guy who posted this, posts a picture of him with his grubby, filthy hands, rubbing the slime and scales off a fish.

Just sayin'. []
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Is a appropriate for the above situation?
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Must be a full moon.
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[cool][#0000ff]The arguments all seem reasonable. But exactly WHERE did they come from? It would help if they were from a creditable biologist...and not the opinions of another passionate angler.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Usually a good idea to submit the source of any quotes you use to refute arguments from other sources.[/#0000ff]
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we are talking about a FISH right ? a fish we are allowed to harvest. some people treat fish like small children and they think they are health and welfare inspectors ! the only way you can 100 % release a trout ice fishing and cause it no harm is to remove the hook in the hole or just stay home . let the people fish .......
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And people wonder why I don't post no more []
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Treat the fish like you would want to be treated. honestly there are to many people who have a freezer full of fish that kick fish around the shore and dont care. grow up and get a sense for nature. I hope all of those with pour ethics get skunked the next time they got out. Im greetfull to catch a nice fish and let most of them go unless my ass is starving for fish. you want science to prove facts for you becuase your to stupid or stubborn to just take apicture and let it go. Shit just let it go if you have to have a picture so bad so you can show everyone that you caught the fish then maybe your out fishing for the wrong reason. Learn to have fun and preserve that fun. Or take a huge native fish out of the water mess up its spine drop it on a rock and mess its life up. but when i see that picture i think you greedy freezer filling non help to preservation of nature for our future generations.
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You are right that it is all just personal opinions....on BOTH sides. Some say it doesn't harm some say it does, there is no real proof to either.

I will also be the first to say that fishing is indeed a blood sport, and no they are not little children. And there is nothing wrong with ice fishing and keeping fish.

The issue is those that do not WANT to keep the fish, but are just enjoying the catch or looking for the next one to be the big trophy.
Those trophy fish have been caught before, you can count on that, but it has been released with TLC so someone can catch it at it's best. So, you see hula, it really does matter.

Not all conditions are life threatening. Like mentioned, fishing in extreme water heat is very bad so is taking a fish out of say 31° water and holding it out or laying it down so gently in -5°. There is extremes in both directions, that is all I am saying.
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[cool][#0000ff]We are in agreement. There are strong opinions on both sides. But, as I have stated in several posts on this and other boards, I am still open to any and all QUALIFIED reports that document the TRUE situation. In over a year of ongoing research I have not found any verified published statistics. But I have found a lot of personal opinions. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I originally posed this as an open question..."Is it harmful". My OPINION...based upon years of ice fishing experience and interaction with many knowledgeable anglers...and DWR personnel...is that it is less harmful than many other things we could do to trout. But, as we all agree, the fish should be handled as little as possible if released and should be given every opportunity to survive a release. Common sense would dictate that a slam on the ice and being allowed to remain in subzero temps for more than a few seconds is not going to improve the chances for survival.[/#0000ff]
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Amen Brotha.
And the good thing is, your words reach where others cannot, so many thanks.
Now if everyone will read the WHOLE thing and not just bits and pieces...LOL
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A frequent contributor on this site has asked me to review this conversation in my role as a moderator. Rather than take some harsh action, can we simply conclude this discussion by saying that, although we have some conflicting information, we can probably all agree that, if possible, if would be good to release the fish w/o placing it on the ice, that there are times when this might not be possible, and finally that this topic has been fully discussed, and can be "put to rest". Thank you. Michael
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I thought that is what we just said....[][laugh]
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I think you're smart for not just believing opinions, I'd also like to see some refereed research...
That being said, I can't find any research specifically on the topic either, but I found three papers about hooking mortality while ice fishing that each touch on temperature and handling for a few paragraphs.
I'm not saying I'm on one side of the debate or the other (Though I think we should all take a deep breath. I don't think anybody wants to kill any fish unnecessarily, so I think we should all be on the same side really...) this is just what I found.
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How about next time you go ice fishing you bring a timer and see just how long you have those fish laying on the ice and snow for that photo op or whatever you choose to do before the release. Then once you have determined how long you take to get er done cut a hole big enough for your body to go through the ice and into the body of water you are fishing . Jump in the water and stay under water for however long you had your fish laying in the ice and snow prior to release. Chances are your going to be pretty uncomfortable down there......... Makes you wonder how that fish feels up on top.
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