Fishing Forum

[cool][font "Arial Narrow"][size 4]Hey Guys,[/size][/font]

[font "Arial Narrow"][size 4]Does anyone known about the back ground of Trout Unlimited? Are they more a political organization or is their first concern fishing and conservation?[/size][/font]

[signature]

Hi there Dryrod,

My perception of them as a non-member but based on reading theliterature they produce and have avaliable at the various fly-fishing expo's is that they are quite political (both internal and external). I got the impression that they were geared to conservation especially raparian re-construction, fishing rights aquisition and scientific research on subjects such as the whirling disese, control of hybridization of native stocks, etc.

I thought they would have a lot of trout fishing classes and such but that seems not to be their main concern.

JapanRon
[signature]

strong political influance , they got the d.n.r. to remove a road baracade on stateland leading too a small brook . we can't get the d.n.r to re open a handicaped fishing site by opening a gated fence .
[signature]

"[size 1]we can't get the d.n.r to re open a handicaped fishing site by opening a gated fence ."[/size]

Where's that? Like to send those folks a little note or two.
[signature]

That's my take on Trout Unlimited also, JapanRon. I looked into joining at one time but some of the people I talked to tried to get their hands in my wallet before I agreed to anything. From what I read in the Rocky Mt. News, Denver, they want to close some prime trout streams to all but Trout Unlimited members. Their reasoning: we're the only one's who can take care of the stream, therefore we should be the only ones fishing it. That didn't go very far here in Colorado. So I steer clear of them.
[signature]

i've been batteling this and another one as well , there's an area that is a dog run unit ,( feild training ) no hunting , no camping , no bikes (petal bickes ) and now no horseback riding .

aquestrian groups used to take blind , physically and mentally challenged and inner city youths on horseback trips thru this area , the d.n.r. decided that the horses were destroying the land thru erosion .

erosion my big toe . there isn't a horse on this planet that can do as much damage as the clearcuts that there doing in the area . the dnn.r. just cant't make a buck off these people , thats there problem .

just a bunch of hooie if you ask me .
[signature]

You've hit the nail on the head and gotten to the politics of our natural resources, Lonehunter. Supposedly, all state DNRs are protecting these resources for the the present and future generations to enjoy (if you believe that, I have some swamp land in northeast Colorado to sell you). I once posed a question to Colorado's DRN, "What is the difference between ground water and surface water?" Sounds like a simple, straight forward question, doesn't it? Surprise, no one could answer it. Then I finally figured out why so many educated people are stupid - they learn from books written by people who learned from books who learned from people who learned from books. Unfortunately, the content of these books haven't changed in a hundred years, just the title and author.

A good, long time friend of mine in Ohio has been studying lake erosion for ten years and probably has a better data base than the Army Corps of Engineers, and has reached several conclusions. However, because he doesn't have a string of letters after his name, his suggestions and solutions have been ignored. The same holds true with local solutions to problems effecting a local population.

Denver has Cherry Creek Reservoir, a large empoundment that oversees much of southeast Denver. If it ever ruptured, it's an old dam, the resulting floods would be devastating in life and property. When I asked about earthquake safety of the ACE, I was laughed at. I was told there was absolutely no danger of Colorado experiencing an earthquake. During my research, I discovered that Denver straddles an active faultline and it can rupture at anytime, simply because of historic activity. But, because all we hear about are earthquakes in California and Alaska, the citizens of Colorado have become complacent and ignore the warning signs. I know, earthquakes are the last thing we think about and it only happens elsewhere.

So what can we do about it? Saying "I told you so" when the worst happens won't help. We can present viable solutions with comprehensive supporting documentation with a very large number of voting signitures below it to start. The downside to that argument is, all they need is one so-called "expert" to say it's a bunch of horse puckey and won't work to scratch the idea. Common sense has gone the way of the Edsel.

Sorry I got up on my soapbox, but your post got me to thinking (I know, bad for the mental health) about the situation. I've been considering your very comments for many years, but with a different train of thought. I, for one, am tired of being religated to second citizen status simply because I enjoy the outdoors and fishing. I have a t-shirt that really gets PETA members shorts twisted, I'M NOT A HUNTER. I'M A WILDLIFE POPULATION CONTROL SPECIALIST. Now I need another one for fishing, I'M NOT A FISHERMAN. I'M A SPECIES REDUCTION SCIENTIST.

I apologize for the soapbox sermon.
[signature]

[cool][cool] Hey johnincolorado,

That was very well done. Sometimes there are not enough people to speakout and voice what they feel. Good job and just to let you know, I share the same feelings here in So Cal.
[signature]

People speak out, they just aren't heard often enough. Politicians will only listen to those with money to donate. State and local officials will only listen to those who can help them look good at raise and bonus time.

Trout Unlimited is just one organization that started out with good intentions but slowly drifted into the political arena and started hiring politically savvy guns and lobbiests, losing sight of their original goal.

Unfortunately for those of us with little, or no, politial clout, we must content ourselves with letting off steam to others with the same thoughts. It just doesn't get too far. I, for one, am just not content with sitting back and watching our fishing heritage be controlled out of our control for the sake of the environment being saved for a previleged few.

Once upon a time, our ancestors could walk out their back door and shoot a deer for meat. They could walk down to the lake or river and catch as many fish as they could eat, whenever they wanted. Now, we need a license to even bait a hook. Colorado is bad but California is worse. Yes, I lived in the San Jose area for many years and every time I wanted to go fishing, I had to drive farther and farther to find a place that wasn't posted private. When I fish, I like to rough it and I don't mean driving an RV to the water's edge or setting up a pop-up camper. My old bones does require a cot now but other than that, give me the old times back. When lighting a camp fire didn't bring in the fire brigade and a dozen Forest Rangers armed with guns. When you could bait a hook with a worm or blood bait and it wasn't considered illegal simply because someone sitting behind a desk designated that particular spot a Gold Medal fishing hole. Yes, the good old days are gone, but not forgotten.

Whenever I see a piece in a paper or magazine that gets my Celvin Kleins bunched in a knot, I write with an opposing point of view, in a nice tone of voice. I especially love getting on PETA's case big time. I think if more fishermen (fisherpersons to be politically correct) wrote their Congressmen, elected officials (state and federal) and let their feelings be know, that just maybe we'd start to be heard and being considered. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there a lot smarter than I am but they don't use common sense most of the time. I'd love to get back to applying that old standard, is it right or is it wrong? measuring stick. Alas, it isn't meant to be.

I aplogize for burning up the keyboard again.
[signature]

HEY , WATCHS KNOW , YOU BROUGHT UP THE SUBGECT AND TODAY I GOT A REPLY AND A TOUR OF WHY THE AREA WAS SHUT DOWN .

THE AREA THAT WAS SHUT DOWN WAS FOR TWO REASONS . THE LAKE PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE PUBLIC BEING ALLOWED TO FISH THERE WAS ONE , BUT THEY KIND OF DROPPED THAT ISSUE AFTER THEY WANTED THE ENTIRE COUNTY TO HELP THEM WITH THE SECOND PART .

THE DIKE AREA WAS CONSTRUCTED OVER SIXTEY YEARS AGO USING THE METHODS THEY HAD BACK THEN . WELL THE DIKE IS SHOWING STRONG SIGNS OF FAILING .

THE DRAIN COMISHINER REPRESINITIVE HAD A REGULAR CORDLESS DRILL WITH A 2"AUGRE ON IT , HE DRILLED ABOUT A FOOT INTO THE DIKE FROM THE DRY SIDE , ( NOT THE LAKE SIDE ) ' WATER STARTED TO TRICKLE OUT .

THERE GOING TO DRAIN THE MAN MADE LAKE , WETHER OR NOT THE DIKE AND DAM ARE REPLACED IS LEFT UP TO SOME "BOND ISSUES " .

THE DIKE HAS BEEN CLOSED OFF FOR SAFTEY REASONS FOR THE MOST PART , THE LAKE ASSOCIATION WANTS TO HAVE THE ENTIRE COUNTY SPLIT THE BILL AND THEN THEY WANT PRIVATE STATUS AFTERWARDS .

THE DRAIN COMM . REP LIKES FISHING THAT AREA TOO , HE'S OPPOSED TO THE PRIVITASION OF THE AREA . HE'S SAYS THEY HAVE ALREADY CONCIDERED A PROPOSAL TO BILD A WALK RAMP ALONG THE NEW DIKES CONSTRUCTION , FOR ALL !

I GUESS IN A ROUND ABOUT WAY , WE WON EVEN BEFORE WE KNEW THERE WAS A BATTLE .
[signature]

[size 1]"I GUESS IN A ROUND ABOUT WAY , WE WON EVEN BEFORE WE KNEW THERE WAS A BATTLE ."[/size]

I, for one, wouldn't consider it a win until the walkway is actually built and you're on it. Money eventually wins out nowadays.
[signature]

hi scott !

i think we can count on him , he has a "special reason at home" to keep his word on this progect . i think we can count on him as being on our side [] .

how have you been doing my friend , i know some days are better than others , i hope your doing well .
[signature]

i doubt any of this is true . . . TU goes after big projects, and it takes political clout to do this . . . in every issue of 'trout' there are numerous large projects listed where TU is working hard to repair man made damage of waterways and most of all . . TO INCREASE POPULATIONS OF TROUT



sm
[signature]

hi s.m.

i'm not saying there a bad group , they have done one progect here in my area restoring an old stream bank that quads have ruined , state law forbids cutting of any trees within a couple hundred yards of any stream , t.u. seems to be above that law here , thats what they did to block off the path . i was actually happy to see that trail closed , but they do have enormous political power with the d.r.r. to get by our state laws .

thousands of us hunters , hikers and campers have been complaining about closures to out state lands here , t.u. just puts in one request and the ones they want removed or put up are done the next day. in our area they are more into being a political power .

not a bad group at all , but into politics , yes . but i kinda think thats what we sportsmen gotta do to survive the attacks and laws thoes peta snd other groups try to impose on us .

good post southernman , great subject too !
[signature]

I don't know anything about Trout Unlimited in particular, but I think we need these groups that are political. We are fighting against politicians and we need people on our side who enjoy that sort of fight and are well versed in the specialties of that war. Look at the NRA, which I am sure most folks on here have been a member of at one time or another. They do relatively little that is aimed at directly getting you and I out shooting, but their political savvy and clout has made sure that we are heard in the legislatures across the land.

How many of us really want to become politically active? I know I don't. I send emails and letters to the elected folk when I hear of something that affects my gun, fishing, and disabled rights. If it weren't for various political activist groups, though, I'd never know what was happening. I hate politics (coming from a history major, that's no idle statement), but I understand them enough to know that the fight has to be taken to the elected officials and that experts are needed. I am not that expert and I do not want to become that expert. You probably don't either. So, even if a group leans to the political and doesn't present you with classses aimed at improving your casting in a crosswind, don't automatically write them off. There may come a time when that is the only group that is still fighting the fight against adversaries we don't understand.

And now I'll get off my soapbox...
[signature]

Okay, Scott. You've made some vaild points and now I must eat some crow (have some handy? I prefer the legs in Hallodaise sauce.) Trout Unlimited is a political group and, fortunately, unlike PETA in every aspect. While I abhore all things political, and politicians, they do have their place and function in the scheme of things. The downside -- I don't trust politicians and place them somewhere between used car salesmen and televangelists. However, you made a good point, they do have their uses.

From my limited experience with politicians, they can help with a cause but only if the money is right, and in cash. I haven't seen one yet that didn't have their hands out for donations. I know, political clout costs money and is a necessary evil. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't like paying taxes either but have to, that's the cost of living in America (Vietnam Vet here, so I know the cost can be high).

My complaint? They can get out of hand because of leadership and change in policy in a hurry. That's what gets my shorts wadded up, even worse than a birds nest in a new spinning reel.
[signature]

[] EVEN GRIZZLY BEARS HAVE A SPOT ON THE FOOD CHAIN. DEAD OR ALIVE.
[signature]

Hey there tubeN2,

Right on! Unfortunately, unlike them grizzly bears, rattlesnakes and politicians can still bite you when they're dead! ha ha

JapanRon
[signature]

[cool] HEY JR,

I CAN TELL THAT YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND JUST A LITTLE LONGER THAN I HAVE. YOU STILL HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD WITH THAT ONE.
[signature]

hey scott you just stay up on that soap box as long as you like , different points of views and perspectives is what makes this great conversation . we often see things one way without looking at it another way . getting our minds to open and do a little thinking is always a good thing , otherwise the minds would stagnate and our socitey degenerate .

thats a great eyeopener scott , and i kind of like my crow well done , i 've seen what thoes road bussard eat - yuck !

thanks for opening my eyes a little wider buddy !

your pal al
[signature]