Fishing Forum

I am going to be buying a couple toons for this upcoming year for both me and my wife.
What would you folks recommend?
I don't want to rob a bank.
We will not be doing any serious white water, probably places like the south fork, Henry's fork, Henry's lake
would like boats with the ability to use trolling motors, light weight, and durable.
I have found creek company boats on ebay from

http://myworld.ebay.com/boatmaster_2009&...X:SELLERID

Seems like some decent deals??
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The classic is on sale now for 169.00 on their website.
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i keep plugging their name so... north fork outdoors outlaw renegade.

its the blue one, you can see their nice motor mount you can get for it and its rated for class III

http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/gforu...ead#unread

if you look at this link you will see it again. if you really want to break the bank get the avenger, but ill be the first to say it sounds like the renegade is all you would need

http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/gforu...ead#unread


google north fork outdoors
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I have two Creek company's. The ODC, and the ODC classic. It is funny that you are asking this because I am in the process of writing a piece on the ODC vs Outcast Fishcat 9.
Here is a short one. The ODC is an OK pontoon. The covers are nylon and that scares me a bit. It would not take much to have an air leak. A fish hook at the dock, an upside down perch or catfish falling on the toon. While I have never had a problem with an instant deflation these are the boats that COULD easier than others with a good PVC outer cover.
The next thing I am not wild about is the way the rockers are made. They are so sharp that all you have under water at any given time with an 8 foot boat is about 4 to 5 foot at most. They also don’t track as straight as a different style.
The ODC, and the classic are HARD to get a load balanced. Here is a picture of mine when I had the frame set too far forward.



Here is a second picture where I have the frame set farther forward but with the same amount of weight.



I don’t see how these boats would handle a motor and a battery. The picture above that was popping a wheelie was only about 35 to 40 pounds. The ODC’s are easy to pimp out and are light. BUT the frame is made of small tubing and worries me a little for floating any creek or river with a strong current. The oars and oar locks are very light and are best suited for calm water. The seat is NOT adjustable or comfortable.

The Outcast FC9 or AKA Sportsman’s 9.
The covers on this boat are rugged. They are tough and well made. I still watch what hits the boat but I no longer worry about a walleye or a perch giving me the old stickaru.
This shape on this boat makes it have more toon under water. It tracks good and rides high in the water. As you can see in this picture I have a motor and I have a series 27 battery. I am guessing with the motor and battery and fishing gear I have well over 100 pounds on the back rack. About 3X as much as I was putting on the ODC.



The frame is larger and more massive. I am sure that this boat would take about any water that a guy had guts to float. The oars are white water quality oars. It is stable and is a tough fishing boat. I like that the seat is adjustable and it IS comfortable.

The ODC is an ok boat for calm water and if a person is careful. With that said they are light easy to set up easy to take down. They are easy to pimp out and they are MUCH easier to carry in a truck or even a car. They break down into a small package that is just nice to deal with.



The Outcast is a heavy duty work horse of a boat. They are HEAVY in weight. When I was carrying my ODC in the back of the truck with a camper shell it was easy to set up. The first few times I took the FC9 I tore it down and put it in the back of the camper shell. Set up was a long a tough process and took close to an hour and a half maybe longer. I had to use a trailer to speed things up.



I am glad that I started to use the trailer because I carry the toon on top and the motor and gear in the box. It speeds things up a lot.
Here is what you wanted to know. The ODC in my opinion is not a good value for the money. You can get by with one, and I think they are better than most float tubes or the Arrow pontoon. The Outcast FC9 or (sportsman’s 9) is a solid boat and well worth the money.
Now getting down to the money. I got my FC9 for 200.00 used. I got my Banana boat for 100.00 used, and the classic was 200.00 NEW. If it were me I would wait and try to find a smokin deal on a couple of used boats like the outcast. I am sure that there are many that would do well. I know the difference between these. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Ron
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I too am going to recommend the North Fork Outdoors Renegade. They are an extremely tough and versatile boat.

It is very responsive, maneuverable, and light in the water. It is no problem at all to use just the fins or the oars. Get the motor mount and it easily handles the weight of the motor, large battery, and lots of extra gear. It has an 800lb weight capacity.

For me one of the best features of the Renegade is that it only weighs about 28 lbs, and there is no metal frame to deal with. You could deflate and fold two of them to fit in the trunk of a car.

I think that with care the Renegade will just about last a lifetime.

It is rated for Class V whitewater.

You can see a Renegade in whitewater here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiYXAAVGK...re=related
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I should have also said that it is stable enough to stand up in. Here is a video of the Outlaw model and the motor mount. The Renegade is only slightly smaller, but you can stand in it also and use the same motor mount as shown here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98-6Jnk2HiE
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Just remember, you get what you pay for.
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great review Ron. However it seems comparing the ODC classic to the fish cat 9 is like comparing a honda to a BMW. The prices I've seen on the FC9 are significantly higher than the classic. At least new. You did however point out some excellent points to consider if considering either of those models. As far as other Creek Company boats I know some are pretty nice. I have the ODC 1080 (it's been discontinued) which is similar to their current XR 10. The vinyl bladder covers give me no concerns of poking a hole in them unless I try to set the hook on one directly or run it into a sharp stick at higher speeds. It's very stable. I site very high in the water, especially since adding a swivel base on the seat. The major down side is weight. It's a bit tough to put on top of a car by your self, but a trailer would be ok. Take down and assembly are simple and I can usually do the whole thing in 30 minutes by myself. However I find keeping it assembled is usually better.

Basically what I'm getting at is look at all the details of the toons you're looking at and what you will use it for. There is a very wide selection out there. Also, I've heard some good reviews on the ones sold at Sam's club and Walmart. Unless you abuse them they aren't bad and run about $250. They have the motor mount and an area for a cooler.
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[quote michael44]We will not be doing any serious white water, probably places like the south fork, Henry's fork, Henry's lake
would like boats with the ability to use trolling motors, light weight, and durable.
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Michael--I reluctantly, and with some reservations, "robbed the bank" and bought a NFO Renegade last spring. I fished from it on the Henry's Fork (Box Canyon to Riverside), South Fork (whole upper river to below the canyon), Green below the Gorge(all sections including Red Creek Rapid), Upper Green in Wyo (many miles above and below Warren Br.)Beaverhead, Madison, etc etc.

I LOVE IT!!! The light weight, frameless design, very innovative oar-lock, oar-storage system. Simple, yet rugged. Awesome storage on each side of the pontoons. Support for an anchor system I frequently use, I could go on and on.

You get what you pay for. I was very reluctant to spend the thousand dollars for it, but I'd do it again without hesitation after using it for a season. It's done everything I want to do.

The "others" perform well too, or they wouldn't be selling them and people wouldn't give them positive reviews. Get the Renegade though if you can swing it. I haven't heard of anyone who regretted buying one yet.
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Right you are. Features that are most desirable is:

If there is a frame, Aluminum as it cuts weight big time.
Manufacture of frame, as there are several on the market that have had welding problems.
Material, as mention the PVC coated nylon covers are the best. Thicker the denier, the better.
Bladders, Urethane is lighter, less effected by temp. or altitude, last longer. Bladderless even better.

The seat is also a big issue. The cloth seats do not prove to be comfortable if you google them up.
Molded plastic WITH the seat pad is the best, although a hunting cushion can be added is there is no cushion.

Valves are another thing to look at. Halkey Roberts in my opinion are the best. Boston are fair.

Like Ron Mentioned also, the shape of the toon. The higher/longer rockers are designed for river runs. Will work on stillwater, but will limit where you put the frame and limit how much weight you can take.

In PONTOON/FLOAT TUBE case, cheaper is not always better.

f you don't use them much it is understandable to not want to soak allot of money into it, but with the features I have mentioned, you could pull a Toon or Tube out of 10 year hibernation and still feel perfectly safe. It is your life.[]
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Bugs Bunny!!!


.......oh.
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Belasko, I understand that the two are like comparing a “Honda to a BMW” I would rather compare them like a 1 ton super duty vs a smart for two.
The reason I did this is because I too went the cheap route with the two ODC. I wanted to get set up so quickly that I overlooked some things so I could get set up quickly. I have only ridden in two different boats so I am no expert by any means. But I can give input on an ODC, and an ODC classic vs Outcast fc9.
After I started to look a little I started to see great deals on better used boats. I have seen Bucks bags south fork’s for a couple of hundred dollars. I have seen outcasts for a couple hundred and I got mine for that.
I was looking at his post at the part where he is going to get two pontoons and does not want to break the bank. A couple new NFO’s are going to run over 2000 dollars. A couple of X10’s are going to be over 2800 dollars. Start pimping them out and adding motors and WOW things are going to get expensive quick. Can the Renegade take a motor?
I have never used a Renegade or an X10. I am sure that they are great rides but they are more in the range of the “ rob the bank “ boats when compared to used boats like the FC9.
I wanted him to see that there are HUGE differences in quality and not to be afraid to look for a used one. I wasn’t bashing Creek Company and am not bashing NFO, I was just giving my opinion on the low-end ODC model. I do think that by comparing them I gave him real life opinions on some issues that he might want to consider. Ron
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I thought you did a good job on comparing the ODC and the Outcast. By the way, Ron, I like your trailer set up.

Used boats can be great too. As with anything, just look it over very carefully, especially the frame joints, and if the frame is straight etc.

To do some river floating and not just still water, the toon needs to be about 9ft long. If they go with framed boats they are going to need a pickup or a trailer to haul them with. Remember that they can be fairly heavy too. If they have to lift them up to put them in very high, it can be more difficult to manage on solo trips.
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[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2]I have the Outcast PAC 900. I purchased it a few years back when they were on closeout from the local sports store. I researched for several months and was going to get an ODC classic but after researching a while longer I decided not to. I narrowed it down to 3 or 4 pontoons in my price range and then went looking to sit on and adjust each one to pick the best. I know that if you will determine what you need and what you want you can find a pontoon in your price range without breaking the bank[].
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[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] [/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2]Some things to keep in mind when looking at pontoons:[/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Main Use – floating Rivers or Stillwater.[/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Pontoon Construction – Many have already commented on this and have gave very good replies. Check to see how many straps are used to attach each pontoon, the more the better, usually.[/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Frame - as said before Aluminum is one of your best for weight, but if kinked will break much easier than steel. Check for ease of putting together and taking apart.[/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Foot rests – make sure they are solid. My foot rests are not adjustable but are very solid. When I purchased mine, which I paid about $700 brand new, I tried several others and each one had very small, flimsy foot rests that I felt like I could break off.[/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Seat – as said before a molded is better for comfort and make sure that it is adjustable or that the foot rests are adjustable, even better if both are. I am 6’ 4” and I have enough adjustment with just the seat, which I checked when I purchased mine.[/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Storage – is the storage useful or are there too many pockets to be useful. I think of this as a fly vest, too many pockets and size of pockets can be an issue. [/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Oars – My Oars have 2 positions that the oarlocks can be placed in which helps since I have very long arms. Also, check that the oars are sturdy enough to pull a lot of water, you will appreciate it later when floating in a fast current and you have to be on the other side of the river. In addition, check to make sure you have clearance for rowing between the oars and your body, maybe its just that I am a big guy. [/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Anchor System – If floating rivers this can be very useful. If using a trolling motor and you want to use the anchor system check to see that both can be used at the same time.[/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Weight – as mentioned before this can be an issue if putting it on top of a vehicle. I used to break mine down and put it in my car and travel to my destination and reassemble it before I got my truck. This would take me about 20 min to assemble and inflate and 10 min to completely disassemble. I believe that mine weighs about 60 lbs or so. With gear in the bags and nothing on the back I have no problems picking it up and putting it anywhere I want it but I am a big guy.[/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -Load Capacity – I am about 230 lbs and with gear, cooler, battery, trolling motor, etc. I am well over 300 lbs loaded. Mine is rated at like 400 lbs and I have had close to that on it and never had a problem. So check to see that you aren’t going to be sitting to low in the water and over loaded as many are rated for 300 lbs. [/size][/#000000][/font]
[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2] -READ other posts/reviews about specific models and see what others are saying. There is a tone of information about every model out there.[/size][/#000000][/font]
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[font "Arial"][#000000][size 2]Sorry this is so long, but this is what I did when I was looking for my pontoon boat. I hope this helps.

Justin[/size][/#000000][/font]

If you can afford it I would go with a Scadden. Like the others have said look into the Renegade or outlaw.

I would also look at Bucks Bags. I have taken my Bucks Bags South Fork Down some big water. On one hand the toon stood up well and held its own. On the other I could have been killed a couple of times. Nothing any pontoon could have helped just my own stupidity. Be careful.[]

Windriver
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Just to clear things up, the U shaped line of boats by NFO are all called the Outlaw[]
There is the 6' Escape, 9' Renegade, 10'6" Rampage, & Challenger @ 12' for the frameless. Weight: 24lb up to 45 lb for the 12'er (not bad at all)

To carry these boats is very easy. Stand in the middle of the boat, grab the foot bar and pull the seat up you back to your shoulders. Away you go.

Stretch 23, any metal kinked is going to break. Allot of aluminum frames are aircraft aluminum and they are going to be very hard to kink, bend, break. Plus Aluminum like stainless won't rust.
I hear about cheap steal frames breaking at welds and bending, but I haven't heard of aluminum frames but I guess anything is possible.

Ron, absolutely, you can put a motor on the Renegade. Cpierce came up with the low cost make it at home answer and I have seen it in action on her tube, but you can get an aluminum motor mount that takes a second and three straps to mount.
I had a spare deck from my X5 that I use for rod holders, and deck for Baxter



(motor tilted to come in to shore) Note, the weight of the battery, Baxter, and a Minn Kota Maxum 40 and the boat is still level...no sliding frame.
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Ron, I didn't mean to give the impression I was bashing your reviews/opinions. I just wanted to point out that they were two very different classes of boats. I actually felt that your review of the two were excellent and very helpful should I have been in the market for a toon.

I'll also throw in that I've been impressed w/ the renegade boats that I've seen. I've never had the chance to test one on the water but I wouldn't turn down the chance to buy one if I had the cash available.
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My wifes is a 6 ft Alpine bucks bag Made in idaho . picked it up probably 10 plus years ago used from flygoddess . ( don't know how long she had it)never had a problem with it.
I bought a used scadden cardiac canyon 5+ years ago for $600. love it, no problems love the lower profile
Before the cardiac I had a scadden expedition it tore my roof rack off doing 65mph the only damage was the seat broke and scuffed the tips on one end, aqua sealed the threads no bent or broken frame used it couple more years till I sold it for $250 when I found my newest one.
I saw a scadden maddison on a web classified for $500 a month or 2 ago with a motor, batt oars There are alot of good used toons out there just gotta search them out. All I know is scadden toons are sweet.
My buddy has a sportmans warehouse toon he likes it another has a waterskeeter he likes it.
research and check the web for new and used read reviews if they have them then buy em and have fun.
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I don't know this person but I found this one this morning. Ron

[url "http://twinfalls.craigslist.org/spo/2138403743.html"]http://twinfalls.craigslist.org/spo/2138403743.html[/url]
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There you go, good search Ron. They are great boats

BOAT SPECS
Inflated Size: 54" x 9'
Tube Diameter: 16"
Fabric: 1100 PVC
Material Weight: 24/27 oz/sq.yd.
AireCell Material: Urethane
Seam Construction: Welded
Warranty: 10
Valve Type: 2-Leafield
Weight: 62 lbs.
Load Capacity: 400 lbs.
Frame: 4-pc aluminum
Anchor System: Included
Motor Mount: Included
Oar Type: 7' 2-piece

sale for around $1,300.+ new.

I think Everet has one
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