Fishing Forum

Ok, I'm returning to my tent trailer/truck (like blue lake) and I see some folks breaking into my stuff and I'm packing a 22 cal. pistol and I fire off some shots in the general direction of the offenders and I accidentally hit one/or more with minor/critical injuries. What are my legal consequences? Yeah. I know, but this is a real situation that could happen and I just don't know what my legal rights are.
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Fred,

I'd say you need to be in fear for your life to use deadly force. One can't justify (legally at least) the use of deadly force to defend property. I'd help ya open a can-o-whoopass on 'em though!

Jim
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You would be better off not letting the bad guys know you're watching them. Gather complete information on them and their vehicle, then call the cops. By the time they were able to get back to Wendover, there would be six deputies, four cops and 4 UHP Troopers waiting for them. You could then recover your stuff and make it known to the good guys that you'll need full restitution for the damage to your vehicle.

Keep the gun in it's holster unless you can truly claim you acted in self defense while you were facing the use of deadly force directly against you.

Also I would hate to bring a .22 caliber pistol to a gunfight. The bad guys would probably have an AK and you would be on the short end of that deal.

Hey Mods, you probably need to move this one. I don't smell any fish!

Mike
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Legal ramifications are if you shoot and wound someone, they can sue you and win. You'll lose everything you were trying to protect.
If you are going to shoot (in self defense) shoot to kill.
If you confront said dudes breaking into your rig, and they come after you and you shoot them, your legal consequences will be very different from winging someone with a warning shot.
josh
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[quote JustJim]Fred,

I'd say you need to be in fear for your life to use deadly force. One can't justify (legally at least) the use of deadly force to defend property. I'd help ya open a can-o-whoopass on 'em though!

Jim[/quote]

Didn't we just pass this in Utah?

"A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an [url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States"]American[/url] legal doctrine arising from [url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Common_Law"]English Common Law[/url][url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine#cite_note-0"][1][/url] that designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use [url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadly_force"]deadly force[/url] to defend that place (his "[url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle"]castle[/url]"), and any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. In a legal context, therefore, use of deadly force which actually results in death may be defended as [url "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide"]justifiable homicide[/url] under the Castle Doctrine"
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Sorry, the wording of our castle doctrine sucks bad enough, you would probably end up in jail.

So I would revert to the 3'S situation.

Shoot! Shovel! and Shutup!
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The laws seem to change like underwear anymore, but back when you needed to take a class for a concealed weapon permit, so you can pack a weapon, there was actually some good info in those classes.
Such as, don't have a hot load in you home defense weapon. If you miss and it goes through the wall, a light load might not invade things outside your home.
And, although the sound of a Shotgun being loaded up is an unmistakeable sound, they are a little hard to turn around in a narrow hallway with.
Also, the word "Freeze" was taught before any action taken.

For me, the effect on my conscious for killing a 15 year old because he was trying to steal something that is replaceable is totally unacceptable. And when pulling a weapon, you do this with the intent to kill.

You are the only one that can determine the situation, but I agree, to shoot an intruder with the intention of just wounding and no personal threat, I think you are asking for a major law suit. And if that intruder dies, is it worth it for material objects?

I know several VETS that just can't get dead images out of their heads.
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While i agree with your sentiments, I sit and wonder when this behavior will be curbed and by whom. Our government, our official police forces that are hired and trained to stop this behavior? It doesn't look like it is working. I don't condone vigilante justice, but I am tired of good people not being able to defend what is rightfully theirs. At some point, these people need to be able to go outside without the fear of being bullied and or ripped off because they don't want to become the offender.

Let me know if I need to stop, I am in a bad mood today.
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Assuming this was sent to me, I will start with you are absolutely right. And I do see a vigilante of sorts in the future for all the reasons you have stated. I am to that point for sure.

It is a Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If anyone should be shot, it should be lawyers[laugh]

The same laws that we are subjected to, apply to the police as well and the criminal although, that one totally eludes me. The fact remains, criminals have rights.

Add to this, the "politically correct" aspect and we are all screwed. Laws go out the window.

I live in the city. I hear gun shots. I find shot gun casing in my back yard and a bullet hole through the trailer in my back yard, just in front of my sliding door (imagine if the trailer had not been there).
I call the police. Show him the shot casings first, then the trailer. Got a case #...woohoo!. He then went to the houses behind. Cases all over the place, including larger caliber. Okay, he comes back with, they got the guns for Christmas and didn't know it was illegal to fire in the city. That was it!!!!! So, what happened to the ignorance is no excuse law.


It is messed up for sure. But, I still couldn't live with myself for killing a young person for stealing a TV or a watch....but anyone threaten my dog or husband, I will do what I must.
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I already pretty well knew the answer before hand. Just thought I'd ask anyway since this is a real situation at Blue Lake. However, while approaching my truck, I might give em a big yell and fire into the air. Even this is probably unwise. Best idea - don't go to Blue Lake!!! When calling for the law, have you ever tried getting any real identifying info. from a ratty old pick up w/o a license plate or at least one that you can read as it speeds off to who knows where. Chances are they wouldn't head to Wendover, and if they did, at least not for a while. The best you could do would be to file a report with the police at Wendover and it would go in the big stack of other reports that would result in nothing but venting your spleen and a basis for an insurance claim after your deductible if you have ins.
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Damm scum bags !!! You should buy some of those bear traps and set them up in the trailer. [pirate][pirate]
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I work at the biggest Trauma center in the state, and first off, let me tell you that you'd have a heck of a time killing, stopping or even badly injuring a grown man with a .22 rimfire. I've seen them flattened out against the skull with the victim not even losing consciousness. I've seen them barely under the skin on a husky guy even shot from close range. I've seen them stopped by several layers of clothing. Same goes for most handguns, except the big boys.

If it was me, I'd carry that gun ready for action, but not levelled. Don't get to close, and stay under cover, or evne out of sight. Then yell "Get the **** away from my car, now." If they run, and they likely will, get as much info about the car and people as you can remember, and file a report with the cops.

If they even flash a gun or advance toward you hide, run, or whatever you need to do. This ain't a movie.

Last resort, empty your entire magazine at center mass.
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We should all get together and go fish in shifts some people fishing and the others siting on the hill with a couple rifles I am sick of people like that dont come to my country and think you can do what you want because when you do stuff like that you will probaly end up with a bullet in your A$$ or worse I dotn know how you guys do it if I am fishing and someone rolls up on me acting like that they will leave alive or in the river peace.
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I went to Blue lake a few weeks ago for the first time on a Monday. Just one float tuber and us- saw no one else but we were only there 3 hours. Is it really that bad out there? I heard some stories so I took gun along but only used it on some old cans. I could see our car fine from the lake and I would be able to hear another vehicle if one came. I guess if it was crowded it be a little different but I wasn't too worried out there.
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He said if he were returning and found someone breaking into his vehicle. I think (but don't know for sure) that if you approach someone breaking into your car, you may be on shaky ground under the Castle Doctrine. As opposed to being IN your car when someone is trying to break in. If you're outside and at a distance to start with, you have the option not to engage the person. You also have the legal authority to place the person under a private person's ("citizen's") arrest. And if he resists, you can legally overcome his resistance.
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First off, I'm not too happy with this being moved. This us as much ti do with fishing as many of the posts. Moving it lessens the "views" but that you moderator's job and so be it, []

Ya know what, I've been letting your comment "settle" and I'm willing to participate in something like that. Problem- Bullet up their $$ss. Some kind of sting, call the sheriff/police/911 and hold em there at gun point? Probably still too dicey? Anyway, I'm up for it. I have a truck and tent trailer and am willing to stay over night, maybe longer with the Sparkinator. Yeah, I know, us law abiding folks Just are toooooooooo smart to do a dumb thing like that with the possible bad consequences. Just not worth it. But I'm old and what do I have to lose, must make a mark for the common good ! But ya know, it might have an impact, at least in the media. Viva La little guy.
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Whatever you do don't fire into the air. What goes up comes down. Shoot into the ground to fire a warning shot.

You have to be able to prove that your life or person was in danger. Protect yourself, but best have an old knife to put in his cold dead hand! [shocked]Just kidding!!! [:p]

It is a shame that things are getting this bad.
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Hey, Leaky,

I used to fish Blue Lake about 40 yrs. ago. Didn't have to worry about this sh-- back then but - if ya wanna fish there, let me know & I'll go with ya or you can go with me whichever. I'll bring my 9mm. I'm 71 & retired so anytime.
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