04-30-2011, 06:39 AM
[url "http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/2011-04-28-rock-snot-felt-sole-wader-ban_n.htm"]http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/2011-04-28-rock-snot-felt-sole-wader-ban_n.htm[/url]
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04-30-2011, 06:39 AM
04-30-2011, 02:56 PM
Very 
for sure. I am for the ban, but understand some people have doubts about it.
My feeling is, FELT is a collector. But, I agree it is NOT a quick fix to switch to rubber soles. You still need to clean your boots although, much easier to clean and no nooks. But, you are getting rid of one vessel of transportation by ridding felt. One step at a time so to speak. Next, maybe a boot with no seams, and nooks.
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for sure. I am for the ban, but understand some people have doubts about it.My feeling is, FELT is a collector. But, I agree it is NOT a quick fix to switch to rubber soles. You still need to clean your boots although, much easier to clean and no nooks. But, you are getting rid of one vessel of transportation by ridding felt. One step at a time so to speak. Next, maybe a boot with no seams, and nooks.
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04-30-2011, 06:54 PM
I thought I would ad my two cents also.
I agree that they all need to be cleaned, even the non-felt. This is the part of the issue that needs to have everyone educated on. Clean and dry them!
Many people feel that it is not that important because the rest of the boot has issues too. I would suggest they read some of the tests that New Zealand did on felt soles and boots in general.
The felt itself is very hard to clean and can harbor pests deep within; also it doesn't dry for just about -- forever. Felt was 90% of the problem with my equipment. It was the hardest to clean and dry.
Comparatively, the rest of the boot's construction is a piece of cake to clean and dry, but it still NEEDS to be cleaned and dried!
I meant to add that my favorite wading shoe in small streams now is my crocs. They are great! No ankle support, but they don't slip much and they are light, and only take minutes to clean and dry them.
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I agree that they all need to be cleaned, even the non-felt. This is the part of the issue that needs to have everyone educated on. Clean and dry them!
Many people feel that it is not that important because the rest of the boot has issues too. I would suggest they read some of the tests that New Zealand did on felt soles and boots in general.
The felt itself is very hard to clean and can harbor pests deep within; also it doesn't dry for just about -- forever. Felt was 90% of the problem with my equipment. It was the hardest to clean and dry.
Comparatively, the rest of the boot's construction is a piece of cake to clean and dry, but it still NEEDS to be cleaned and dried!
I meant to add that my favorite wading shoe in small streams now is my crocs. They are great! No ankle support, but they don't slip much and they are light, and only take minutes to clean and dry them.
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05-01-2011, 12:17 AM
WOW...that felt more like a buck and quarter...maybe more[cool][
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05-01-2011, 02:25 AM
I am off of my soap box now, and back on my meds! [laugh][laugh][laugh][laugh]
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05-01-2011, 02:26 AM
Man I was impressed big time...don't stop now!
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05-01-2011, 02:53 AM
I was trying to find some references to the studies I read, and of course I can't, but I did find this site which does have some of the information on felt soles. I haven't seen it before, and of course it is an anti-felt site so it is biased. Also I haven't read all of it, but none the less it seems to have some good information.
http://www.stopans.org/Science_of_felt.php
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http://www.stopans.org/Science_of_felt.php
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05-01-2011, 03:02 AM
Is there a study out that says felt is 90% of the problem?
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05-01-2011, 03:57 AM
If there was that would make it a real easy decision. But, I think even if it was 5% it is worth addressing, don't you?
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05-01-2011, 03:52 PM
No, the 90% is my own extrapolation of the data as I considered my own boots and equipment that I had been using. Sorry, how I wrote it. It made it sound like it was their conclusion. It wasn't. I went back to that post and edited it.
My boots had canvas tops instead of leather and it took very little drying time to get them clean and dry except for the felt soles. For me 90% of my "clean and dry" problem was the felt. That also still means that I have a 10% clean and dry problem in my other materials that I still need to take care of regularly.
I do have a pair of leather wading boots that I don't wear any more. I would consider both the felt and the leather on them to be a problem. If I just removed the felt on them it would still take a long time to dry the leather sufficiently. Hopefully we don't have to have a ban on leather legislated for us also.
If we get as many people educated as possible, maybe some things will slow their spread. It seem we need a law just to bring the issue to the attention of the masses. --- Me included! I wouldn't have looked into the problems with felt, if it hadn't been brought up that it was being banned. I wouldn't have thought much about it.
So each of you can inventory your own equipment and decide what are your problem areas. Between your waders and boots, what on them takes the longest to clean and dry for you? Work on taking care of those areas. Just because you might not use felt any more doesn't mean there aren't things that can be problems also on your boots etc. Law makers when they pass bans of felt, aren't saying other materials aren't bad too. They are indicating that felt has been found to be a problem area that is more difficult to clean, dry, or disinfect for people. We still need to clean and dry our other materials. It is up to each of us to take care with what we use, so that we aren't carriers.
Here is the main NZ study that decided me on removing felt from my wading boot options when I started looking into it. [url "http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/files/pests/didymo/didymo-survival-dec-06-rev-may-07.pdf"]http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/...ec-06-rev-may-07.pdf[/url]
This study is about the survival of didymo, but I think the findings would be pretty similar for the other AIS problems -- from whirling to mussels.
The main issue with felt is its thickness, density, and deep absorption of baddies. As the felt is worn in the stream, organisms can work their way deep into the felt with the action of being walked on. Yet when you try to soak the boots in disinfectants, the felt is very hard to penetrate with the cleaners. It takes an extended soaking time in disinfectants for felt as opposed to other materials, and spraying did just about nothing. Even the waders should be soaked instead of sprayed with disinfectants.
Any material in the waders or boots that is absorbent is also a carrier. The worst is felt, next is leather, then neoprene and on from there. All of them are equally bad for transfer of nuisance species for the first 4 or 5 hours -- they all hold water.
It mostly goes by drying time. Non-permeable materials such as rubber dry first. Leather stays wet for quite awhile, depending on drying conditions sometimes as much as 3 days. Felt also takes more than 3 days to dry, and has even been found to still be wet enough for invasives to survive after 3 weeks.
The NZ study goes through the effectiveness of a number of different killing methods. Drying was effective, as well as heat, and freezing. Some cleaners were also effective for didymo, but we don't know how well they do on our mussel problems etc.
In my opinion --- maybe if they made thin throw away and replaceable "felt-like" soles, it might work. (The soles would need to be more open and of synthetic material) They could be removed, cleaned, soaked in disinfectant, or dried, and then thrown away when worn through. Until then, the dense felt that is normally in use on wading shoes is a potential problem area for our waters. As I said before, if we really care, it is up to us to clean and dry all of our equipment - from our booties to our shoe laces!
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My boots had canvas tops instead of leather and it took very little drying time to get them clean and dry except for the felt soles. For me 90% of my "clean and dry" problem was the felt. That also still means that I have a 10% clean and dry problem in my other materials that I still need to take care of regularly.
I do have a pair of leather wading boots that I don't wear any more. I would consider both the felt and the leather on them to be a problem. If I just removed the felt on them it would still take a long time to dry the leather sufficiently. Hopefully we don't have to have a ban on leather legislated for us also.
If we get as many people educated as possible, maybe some things will slow their spread. It seem we need a law just to bring the issue to the attention of the masses. --- Me included! I wouldn't have looked into the problems with felt, if it hadn't been brought up that it was being banned. I wouldn't have thought much about it.
So each of you can inventory your own equipment and decide what are your problem areas. Between your waders and boots, what on them takes the longest to clean and dry for you? Work on taking care of those areas. Just because you might not use felt any more doesn't mean there aren't things that can be problems also on your boots etc. Law makers when they pass bans of felt, aren't saying other materials aren't bad too. They are indicating that felt has been found to be a problem area that is more difficult to clean, dry, or disinfect for people. We still need to clean and dry our other materials. It is up to each of us to take care with what we use, so that we aren't carriers.
Here is the main NZ study that decided me on removing felt from my wading boot options when I started looking into it. [url "http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/files/pests/didymo/didymo-survival-dec-06-rev-may-07.pdf"]http://www.biosecurity.govt.nz/...ec-06-rev-may-07.pdf[/url]
This study is about the survival of didymo, but I think the findings would be pretty similar for the other AIS problems -- from whirling to mussels.
The main issue with felt is its thickness, density, and deep absorption of baddies. As the felt is worn in the stream, organisms can work their way deep into the felt with the action of being walked on. Yet when you try to soak the boots in disinfectants, the felt is very hard to penetrate with the cleaners. It takes an extended soaking time in disinfectants for felt as opposed to other materials, and spraying did just about nothing. Even the waders should be soaked instead of sprayed with disinfectants.
Any material in the waders or boots that is absorbent is also a carrier. The worst is felt, next is leather, then neoprene and on from there. All of them are equally bad for transfer of nuisance species for the first 4 or 5 hours -- they all hold water.
It mostly goes by drying time. Non-permeable materials such as rubber dry first. Leather stays wet for quite awhile, depending on drying conditions sometimes as much as 3 days. Felt also takes more than 3 days to dry, and has even been found to still be wet enough for invasives to survive after 3 weeks.
The NZ study goes through the effectiveness of a number of different killing methods. Drying was effective, as well as heat, and freezing. Some cleaners were also effective for didymo, but we don't know how well they do on our mussel problems etc.
In my opinion --- maybe if they made thin throw away and replaceable "felt-like" soles, it might work. (The soles would need to be more open and of synthetic material) They could be removed, cleaned, soaked in disinfectant, or dried, and then thrown away when worn through. Until then, the dense felt that is normally in use on wading shoes is a potential problem area for our waters. As I said before, if we really care, it is up to us to clean and dry all of our equipment - from our booties to our shoe laces!
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05-02-2011, 03:48 PM
No problem, I was just curious.
I think, like you said the most important thing is cleaning gear and educating people.
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I think, like you said the most important thing is cleaning gear and educating people.
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