Fishing Forum

Weber River - Went with my twin to our newest weber spot by 10 am. I waded out into the river and within a couple casts hooked up with my 1st ever weber fish. From then on I caught and lost a few here and there. My twin decided to drive off and hit a different spot. By 1pm we decided to leave and get lunch and take care of some business in Heber.

We got detoured on our way back to the weeb thanks to a flipped over truck and got back to our spot by 3:30pm. My twin joined me in the cold water waderless and it was great fishing until the sun went behind the mountain at 4:45pm. I caught 9 browns and lost 12 browns. My twin got 2 browns and lost 4 browns. He lost the biggest pig of the day which was over 20 inches long.

I was using a Blue Fox Gold size #1 and #2, Blue Fox Silver size #2, Roostertail in silver blade,black/orange body, and black tail. As well as a kastmaster in gold, and a Roostertail in Silver blade, white/black body, and black fur. All fo which woorked but the blue fox gold was the best. My twin used Blue Fox Gold and a Gold blade, orange body, with hand painted black dots. He also got a good bite on a floating rainbow rapala.

Not a whole lot of pics were taken today as the working camera today was not waterproof.

Our feet and legs were numb and our feet felt like planks of wood after this. Not reccomended to anyone. Coldest day of the year but we are ice fishing ready now!

The 1st fish of the day and the 1st fish ever on the weber river for me.


The 2nd fish of the day.

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I don't know what was worse. Standing in thigh deep water with leaky waders...or without waders. I will never complain about the cold backcountry skiing ever again.
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As I have never used one, I have got to ask, how do you "loose" a fish to a lure with a treble? I am only asking because you mentioned that you prefer trebles because you don't loose fish.
This is a civil question, I hope you take it that way.
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[quote flygoddess]As I have never used one, I have got to ask, how do you "loose" a fish to a lure with a treble? I am only asking because you mentioned that you prefer trebles because you don't loose fish.
This is a civil question, I hope you take it that way.[/quote]

Great question there and I am more than happy to answer that.

Fish always have the chance to get off the hook. Part of the sport I guess. Other fisherman have claimed that this is what keeps it interesting. I see that comes from older folks usually. It sure keeps you coming back for more for sure.

A more official answer is that trout have bony mouths and are hard to hook completly. I guess it also comes down to how they took the hook and how many points got them. A lot of times the fish swiming, rolling, and bumping rocks sets them free.

Trebles are not gaurnteed to bring them in but the chances are better IMO.

I have heard from Jermey Wade that a single hook puts more pressure on the point as there is less points to divide it's pressure. He was also using a huge chunk of meat and would gut hook the beasts! Usually though he is a treble guy and most of the time (not always) he claims to have released them.

In rivers it seems that the fish have a better chance at getting away. More varibles I think.

As my math proffessor used to say. "What is wrong with varibles? Varibles tend to vary!"
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This might sound crazy, but what about smaller hooks. In fly fishing, a lot of fish are taken on #22 and smaller hooks. As a fish inhales it's food, and if not right spits it out, less chance with a smaller hook.
Most losses are due to bad knots or break offs because the smaller the fly the smaller the tippet. Most use 6X which is 3 to 4lb. I will also use 2 lb, but I prefer fluorocarbon because smaller diameter for more strength same as regular line.
I have fished #32 flies, and I am asked all the time how it can hook a fish. So small, they don't realize it is in their mouth. Biggest on a #30 was 21" brown out of Middle Provo a couple years back.

Just some info, take it or leave it, not trying to change you.
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I think the same goes for the length of a hook. The longer hooks seem to be easier for the fish to get off of. The leverage of the longer length makes it easier for the fish to rip the hook back out as it fights and jumps.
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Yeah I use size #0 spinners on smaller streams and I always thought that the smaller hook didn't penatrate as much. The Sportsman's workers told me so. I noticed that I have the same amount of break off's anyway as a size #3. I will say that a size #2 spinner the fish might not take the hook directly. They might hit the top of the blade/body and barley get hooked.

I will have to ask Tube Dude![cool]
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@ Flygoddess
I will chime in on this for you, Treble hooks suck for landing fish when they are on a lure. This hook is the reason a lot of rod manufatures have gone to a glass or a composite glass mixture type rod. The rod has decent back bone with a softer tip. The faster the action on the rod the more chance you will loose fish with a treble hook. This does the same thing that your flyrod does for you, it gives you and your line another way to fight the fish, the right rod will slow your hook set down, slow the fish down on surges and hopefully help stop the fish from getting away.
As far as hooks go and you know as well as anyone high quality, You would not want to a cheap #22 or you would loose a lot more fish then you would land. Also on most of the hooks for tying that small, if you look the Gap, it is wide for how small the hook is.
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I have to agree with you. I have lost way more fish using lures with trebles than I have on single hooks. Getting a glass rod has really helped me land more of the bass I hook on cranks, but still, I can think of very few fish on say a soft jerkbait that have thrown the hook.
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Ever heard the phrase " give me a big enough lever and I could move the world"? Longer hooks equal more leverage and leverage goes both ways. I do also see the point of flygodess as it would result in more psi. Line, rod stiffness and angler hookset all are factors. Barbless go in easier and also come out easier. Barbed in my opinion are the way to go for harder mouthed fish, usually larger ones no matter the species. Use what works for you. I use what works for me but others might not be as proficient and visa versa. Save some keep some it's all the same, just don't spike your hair[cool]
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[quote catmaster23] Save some keep some it's all the same, just don't spike your hair[cool][/quote]

Yeah that might be why I can't find the real fish. My profile (spikes) are too high and the big ones can see me hidding in the bush!
The only thing I can atract is a giant porcupine![laugh][laugh] I guess I had better duck down my head from now on...cast blind and all to get some fish.
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Hey whatever works. Realty is the last thing a fish feels is the prick on the other end. I've caught plenty of fish on the treble. Evens the odds in my opinion. Keep up the good work and please don't freak out just ribbing.
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Oh I can tell the difference of ribbing and stuff. I really have to do my homework before I get my next rod!
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[cool][#0000ff]Anybody who claims to never lose fish...on any kind of hook...will lie about other things. Hooks are only one part of the equation. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I make most of my own spinners. I put trebles on only a few of them. Most have single hooks. But my single hooks are often as wide as the width of the trebles I replaced. I may miss a few hooksets with a single hook but I seem to land a higher percentage of the ones I do hook. This is especially true on larger fish. And with a single hook I do less damage to the fish...and to my net, my fingers and my clothing. Much easier to release fish from single hooks too.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Hooks styles and sizes are always factors. Some work better for bait. Others are good for lures because of their design and "grabbing" effeciency. There are some new ultrasharp hooks on the market...both trebles and singles...that seem to reach out and grab anything that comes near them. They do a much better job than an old rusty hook that has never felt a sharpener. And if you ding the rocks a few times you need to keep touching up the hooks. Even slightly dulling the hook will cause missed strikes or lost fish. If you bend or break a hook on the lure you should replace it. You can keep fishing with a treble that is missing one or two of the three hooks and still catch fish. But new and sharp hooks work better.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]After that is the balance between rod length, rod strength, rod design, line type, line strength, method of retrieve, type of hookset, fish playing skill, water conditions, fish struggles, quality of hookset, length of battle, etc. It would take a large book to cover all of the variables and permutations. And there are books, tapes, CDs and websites available with the "downloads" from many qualified anglers.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Here's a synopsis. Balance your rod and line to match the size of the lures you are fishing and the fish you expect to encounter. For most spinner fishing in Utah a medium light rod with a fast tip will cast even the lightest spinners...on the right line. The line should usually be quality mono...with good knot strength and abrasion resistance. Check the line near the knot after each fish and retie if there is any wear. Trout have teeth and they often scrape the line on underwater structure.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Heavy rods and braided lines have their places, but not fishing spinners on small streams or in clear still water. And the lack of stretch in braids will contribute to tearing out the hook on the hookset.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]The method of retrieve is also important. Some folks like to point the rod at the lure being retrieved. Many prefer to hold the rod at a 90 degree angle to the line...watching the rod tip for vibrations during the retrieve. I prefer the latter. It allows me to detect the strikes when fish hit while coming toward me...stopping the vibration and/or putting a bit of sudden slack in the line. You should take a couple of fast cranks on the reel to bring the line tight and then set the hooks. That one tactic will hook lots of fish you never knew you had. [/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]But...using the 90 degree angle retrieve...you will also see the rod suddenly bounce...or just "load up". If you are using a fast action rod...with a soft tip...or a slower action rod with flex along the whole rod...you should let the fish turn away and pull against your rod before you set the hook. My term for it is "Wait until you feel weight". If you strike too quickly you have a better chance of pulling the lure (or fly) straight back out of the fishes' mouths before they really clamp down on it.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Hooksets? Trout DO NOT have tough mouths. There are spots inside the mouths of larger fish that are harder to stick a hook. But the highest percentage of trout caught on flies and lures are hooked in softer tissue or around the edges of the mouth. A radical hookset...with a heavy rod and stout line...can rip the hooks out of the fish before you ever get a chance to do battle. And even if the hooks hold past the hookup they tend to fall out easier during the battle because of the hole torn in the fish on the hookset. I have seen anglers literally bring in a set of fish lips after a "bass blast" hookset.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]That being said, you DO need to set the hook. But rather than an arm-dislocating heave you should simply make sure you are tight to the fish and then do a wrist snap. Compare it to putting a nail in a board. Tough to push the nail through. But a[/#0000ff]
[#0000ff]tap with a hammer gits 'er done. A quick wrist snap against a sharp hook will hook more fish and result in more of them making it all the way to your grubby little hands.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Everybody loses fish during the battle. The bigger the fish and the harder and longer it fights the greater the percentage of chance it will arrange its own release. A longer battle wears a bigger hole in the mouth of the fish. And if the fish is twisting, flopping and jumping it puts torgue and leverage on the hooks. Also, if you are using "heavy metal" the fish can use the weight of the lure to multiply those factors. Lots of fish are lost when they go airborne, twist and shake and fling the lures back at you.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Fish hooked in flowing water also have the advantage of being able to use the force of the water to create greater pull against the angler and his tackle. Translation...longer battles, more hooks torn out or flung out from holes worn in the mouth.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Battling the fish? Every angler develops their own "style" for fighting fish. Some simply like to hammer down the drags on their big reels with heavy line and winch the fish in to put on the stringer. Others go the opposite direction and use wimpy tackle to overplay the fish to the point of exhaustion...delighting in the increased feel and fight of even small fish. Ideally, your tackle and your fighting of the fish should be balanced to provide plenty of enjoys but not to kill the fish from stress before you bring it in...especially if you are planning to release it.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Fish handling? If you plan to release a fish, DON'T handle it. Use a rubber net...WET...to control and cradle the fish during hook removal. Then make sure the fish is recovered before releasing it. Even with the most careful handling there will be some fish mortality. But a lot less than with fish that are gilled and held vertically for a round of pictures...or rolled in the sand or rocks until they quiet down enough for the pics. Holding them up vertically by the lures may be less harmful than gilling, but even smaller fish fare better if held horizontally to support their internal organs during the photo op.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]EDIT: Almost forgot to include that the attitude and activity levels of the fish are important to how they hit and how they get hooked. Curious or territorial fish are likely to just bump the lures, without chomping down on the hooks. They sometimes get hooked on the outside of their heads. Feeding or aggressive fish WILL bite the lure...and often repeatedly until they get hooked.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Nobody hooks all the fish that hit. And nobody brings in all the fish they hook. But nobody should want to do both those things. Fishing is a sport and not a harvesting system. Enjoy the sport and be properly grateful when you develop the skills to increase the percentages. And be especially grateful when LUCK happens. [/#0000ff]
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[center][] Am I in before the lock? - oh wait, not yet.... [:p][/center]

Quote:Longer hooks equal more leverage and leverage goes both ways

Lotsa hits and hookups'll end up just tapping on a single of the triple on the treble. Looks like one of those in the first shot.
One of the reasons I've been liking circle and octopus hooks. Almost always a nice lip hookup.

TDs: One thing I do appreciate about your photos - you typically reveal your lure so we can see what was working for ya, plus - never seen a photoshoped background. I expect some 'whiteout' come ice season!

Those real flippy floppy trout have given me trouble even with trebles - when they jump in the air and get a good headshake - seems like ya gotta give them some wiggle room - easier with a long flexible flyrod.

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If I've got a crazy rainbow doing acrobatic head shakes, my best success has come from keeping the line tight and the rod tip high. Keeping that line tight lets the rod do the work of absorbing those shakes. You can't win them all though and sometimes (especially with heavier lures) you've got to dodge a kastmaster that's ripping toward you at high speed.[laugh]

My favorite is the forehead tap when a lure comes loose. OUCH!
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This is a trivial note but--- didja notice the TubeDude splled lose correctly?
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Wow Pat,

That is one of the finer write ups on this subject that one could ever read and not one single comment. I guess because everyone is so used to reading your excellent commentaries that it is just taken for granted.
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[cool][#0000ff]Thanks Kent.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I'm used to being ignored and taken for granted. I'm married.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I suspect that a lot of regulars are out of town for the holiday or are doing what I would rather be doing...fishing.[/#0000ff]
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great write up. more then 15 words and i get easily and wet my pants
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