I did alot of research on goby's and zebra muscles when I lived in Indiana years ago...and F&G was so hellbent on stopping the spread of these two in particular...the frustrating part from my perspective is that the pro's of the two invasives seemed to outweigh the cons. At least back there it did...Zebra muscles are very small and extremely prolific...once they get in a body of water they reproduce in astronomical numbers...but the thing is...they feed on algae and crap in the water that causes cloudy or filthy conditions...so after they feed and reproduce enough to get the water crystal clear they lack food supply and die off...back east it would cause the lake to be so clear the weedbeds were sustainable and could grow really deep due to sunlight penetration down deep...and the weedbeds gave cover to fry after spawning so more of the fish live to grow to adulthood...so in all the lakes I studied the fisheries improved immensely...the downside was only that the muscles attach themselves to the turbine tunnel walls requiring them to be cleaned once or twice a year...also they would get into the water pump intakes in boat motors that were left in the water all summer...so folks would get lifts that pulled the boat up out of the water after they were done using it so the muscles couldnt attach...makes sense...anyway, Goby's in lake Erie have also been responsible for improving the walleye and smallmouth fisheries there so now Erie has become a sportsmans paradise again...it has also been found that walleye and perch actually feed on zebra muscles as another source of food...see?...seems like more pro's than cons to me? Any thoughts?
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I've actually thought about that same thing myself. The only thing I can think of that could be a problem here is that the waters aren't generally as fertile. Perhaps zebra muscle could compete with the young game and pan fish for food by cleaning out the plankton and algae that the fry feed on. The goby might eat the invertebrates that the pan fish and smaller game fish rely on. Those are just my guesses though, I really don't know.
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With all the folks on this site, thats it? one response?
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I am no expert, but I can't say as I like the pictures of these covering all of the beaches and every other surface that they touch. I think the cons far out weigh any small positives to water clarity there might be.
The costs to our water treatment plants and power plants where these have invaded is in the hundreds of millions of dollars. They bury the substrata and smother out native species of invertebrates and mussels. Because they absorb the pollutants, they have caused the death of many birds that eat them. In the areas they have invaded there are now numerous native species that are endangered. They will just about destroy our small farmers who can't afford the added maintenance costs to their irrigation systems. This isn't even counting the costs to recreational boaters and beaches that are now covered with so many sharp shells that you can't walk barefoot on them.
I think the costs are way too high, and prevention is the only solution so far.
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Haven't done any personal "research" but thought that I had heard that the goby was a significant predator of eggs and fry of species of interest [fishing, forage fish, etc.]
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Good points cpierce.
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I can not see them being very helpful. The main problem besides the mechanical problems already noted is the zebra mussels clean the water to well. Certain lakes around here would die off completely if the mussels made it here. Take Kokenee for an example. They feed on plankton exclusively. No plankton, no Kokenee. Super clean water is not so good. The cleaner the water is, the more sterile it is which means less food for all fish. Look at the lakes around here and you can see the difference between sterile lakes and fertile lakes. Pali
es is a pretty sterile lake. To deep for the sun to reach bottom and the raising and lowering of the water level does not help either. Now look at Henry's. Very fertile due to being shallow and the sun can reach the bottom. Much faster growing and bigger fish in Henry's compared to Pali
es. Now if you introduced the Zebra mussels into a place like Henry's and they cleaned the water up, it would end up more sterile than Pali
es and the fish there would die off due to lack of food. It is all about the food chain. You remove one part of the chain and it will collapse.
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Yes, Lake Erie has became a destination for fishing because of invasive species. But at what cost? What will it look like in 50 yrs?
If zebra mussel or quagga mussel become established in Idaho, substantial expenses would [font "Times New Roman"][/font]be involved for the maintenance of industrial, hydropower, irrigation, and water supply systems. The impacts of the zebra mussel in the United States have been an estimated in the billions of dollars annually (Khalanski 2005).
I just hope IP and BP are helping fund the program to keep all invasive species out of ID. I'm surprised they haven't funded wash stations at all border crossing yet since they got the most to lose. Then we got the Port of Lewiston - what are they doing? I would think the port is ID's highest risk for introducing invasive species. I haven't read it all but here is a link to ID plan:
[url "http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/fish/planAquaticNuisance.pdf"][/url][url "http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/fish/planAquaticNuisance.pdf"]http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/fish/planAquaticNuisance.pdf[/url]
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Awesome thread now...thats what I wanted to see...Doesnt it seem that we could derive some form of coating that could be applied to dams tunnels and such that would prevent or deter them from attaching? I guess since I havent done any research in years it may be time to do some more since time tells us quite alot. I will do so and keep you posted
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I always wondered why they don't use Teflon. Expensive yes, but a one time expense. Maybe the little guys can even stick to it, I don't know.
Take it for what it is but I heard a few years ago they found some in Oxbow's plumbing. Hope not but that is what I heard.
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The loss of zoo plankton in most lakes would make the state a put and take only state. I have thought about this problem a lot. When your fishing in Salmon Falls and the water is so green with the famous slime you can't troll, I think about how they might help in some ways. It all comes back to damage they do. Ron
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They have identified a cupronickle alloy that the mussels won't colonize, but how much will it cost to coat everything with it? It may come down to that.
AA, I also meant to say that I agree with you on the power companies helping to keep these out!
JJ, Our lakes and streams are already so clean that F&G actually has to fertilize some of them for fish growth. For the most part we don't need more filter feeders on our waters.
I think this crayfish makes a good point on its own.
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Quote:They have identified a cupronickle alloy that the mussels won't colonize, but how much will it cost to coat everything with it?
Well, I guess that answers that question, and it's a whole lot cheaper to try to prevent the mussels from entering our waters in the first place than to try coating everything will this new alloy.
Cpierce, once again you're a treasure trove of info. Thanks for sharing.
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It would be interesting to see if there was a way to have them come and clean and then have an effective method of wiping them out...I think I wouldnt mind having shells on beaches and such in exchange for revitalizing a fishery...so far in my research the census says they cause too much damage and the costs are extensive...I have fished a couple lakes back east years ago that had them and I really couldnt see any signs they were even there other than the unusually clear water and the presence of more vegetation and fish....one article claimed that even crayfish eat them in droves...which is funny since there is the pic of the crawdad covered in them...lol...hmmm...anyway...many species of fish and birds eat them as a staple so again...pros and cons...it seems if we could find a way to control them all would be well...
BTW...I see no reason to have them here in ID since most all our lakes and such are clear already...seems more relevant to silty back east areas...
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Yeah, I can already see the bottom in 10 feet of water at most waters here. Where I grew up in Connecticut, we had very clear water as well, so I don't think the northeast would benefit much from them either. They might be helpful in some of the midwest and southern waters, but the damage they do might not be worth the benefits. I seem to remember an article about rock bass and pumpkinseed feeding on them in Lake Champlain, but I don't think it was enough to keep them in check. It sounds to me like in some waters where they have taken hold, they have turned out to be a good thing, but it kind of seems like a gamble. Every water is different and I still think it's best to keep them from spreading.
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Also I just had a thought...bein that Kokanee are very agressive and attack hoochies and such...wouldnt you think that they would do just fine with an absence of plankton or whatever they eat? It would seem to me that they would adapt and eat small baitfish instead...just a thought mind you...Its very interesting to me to consider what would happen in the event of a Zebra mussell invasion...considering how far reaching they have been so far it may be inevitable that they will get here one day...articles Ive just read show that panfish eat them as a normal part of their diet...and smallmouth as well...I would hate to see this happen here but if its coming I should think we should know about it beforehand...just sayin...fyi...I posted a new thread on my home State of Indiana's BFT forum to see what they say the impact on the fisheries there has been so far...Zebras have been in one of the Lakes ive fished there since 91...so I would think 20 years is a pretty good amount of time to get a good read on the effects dont you?
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Ok...I just had a phone call w a buddy in Indiana who claims that the fishing on Lake Wawasee that has been infected since 91... is awesome and totally stable..water is clear and clean and limited issues from Zebra mussells...however he did say that it appears that the mussells didnt take over nearly as bad as they did on Erie...now that being said...if the mussell's food supply is crap in the water and the lake that gets invaded is pretty clean already their ability to oberwhelm it is extremely limited...so in theory even a nasty dirty body like Erie...that is overwhlemed due to its food supply being ginormous...still one would assume that eventually the water will be so clean that the food source is depleted for the mussell's and they start to die off to a population that can be consistantly maintained...eh?
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Quote:Also I just had a thought...bein that Kokanee are very agressive and attack hoochies and such...wouldnt you think that they would do just fine with an absence of plankton or whatever they eat? It would seem to me that they would adapt and eat small baitfish instead
They might adapt, but they might not.But with no plankton, what are the baitfish going to eat?
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In theory that's how it would work but how long would it take and can all lakes handle it? Let's say Cove Arm becomes infected. The little guys would go nuts and in a few years there would be no more food for them to eat. They all die off and in the process of breaking down the DO levels in the lake drop. With no fresh water influx to the lake the DO is not replaced and other species of fish die, reducing the DO even more. Now the DO is so low the aquatic plants start dying off. This has now reduced the DO levels to the point no aerobic orginism can survive. The lake is now, for practical purposes, dead!
I can't see any benefit!
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What are DO levels Avery? Im just curious...so far I have seen no evidence of any lake or pond becoming sterile from Zebra mussells...do you have any docs that support that thought? All the lakes infested i know of are doing well...
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