Five of us were fishing this hole below shoup. We had been there since Tuesday and it was Friday. i had been fishing for ten hours and went up to the camper to cook some steaks. i made enough for everyone and when they were done i brought them down to my buddies. we put our rods down and started eating. we were still sitting on the rocks maybe twenty feet from the river.. a truck pulled up and five guys raced down and moved some of our stuff to so they could fish. by the time we were done with our steaks all five guys were fishing the hole. the part that really pissed me off was when i grabbed my rod and began to fish the guy got on my case and was giving me grief for fishing so close to him. . we exchanged words but they did not leave. i understand its a totally public river and would have been fine sharing the hole with them if they had been decent about it..
i landed a fish and by the time i had released it they had crowded where i was to the point where i could not get in and cast again. after several hours they left and we could again fish. possible thoughts. . thanks for reading. i just had to vent.
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If you stay with it very long, you'll find that some guys are like that. Not much you can do about it, IMO.
I had a guy dangling his lure in my face and trying to pick a fight with me once. I was too dense to get what he was after. Finally after he threatened to throw me in the river I figured out what he was after. Now I just open carry a pistol any time I'm on the river. Haven't had anyone bother me since.
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Ive had a few groups do that to me and my buddies. It only takes one good whoopin and those guys wont bother you anymore. lol Really
when all you want to do is fish and be left alone. We were fishing a hole on the salmon river and the best way to fish it was from our side, well guys on the other side were getting pissed because we had banked 15-20 that morning and they caught 4 between about 15 people on the other side of the river. We would only cast about 15-20 ft. They started casting at our feet literally hitting our rods with there gear cause they wanted to fish where we were. We cut about 4 rigs of their's then got pissed and told them we are coming over to settle this crap. They took off. Public doesnt mean you can do anything you want. Next time they bother you most of them kind of people will back down when it comes to blows, but there are those times when things blow up. If i was there first and they are intentionally trying to bother me its game on. lol You cant fix stupid but you can try!!!
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First, I don't steelhead fish in Idaho because I hate combat fishing. But they first mistake in my humble opinion is you guys acted like you owned the hole. Take your stuff with you if you're not actively fishing for any reason. Yes even if it's to eat dinner 20 ft away. Not OK ever to reserve the water by leaving your stuff there. Reminds me the behavior of those back east that remove snow from the street to park and then leave a lawn chair in a public parking spot when they leave telling others they don't have a right to it. I personally wouldn't of fished the hole but probably mumbled to myself something about the idiots who think the own the river. Nothing personal but you asked so I gave my honest opinion. Both sides behavior does reinforce why I salmon and steelheed fish in less crowded places.
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You might find some support for your actions but I think most of us will not say anything you want to hear.
To me you quit fishing so your gear should have been moved off the bank. It is public land so they had as much right to fish as you had.
After you were finished eating you crowded them, they told you about it. You "exchanged" words. I read it that you were probably yelling at them and they were yelling at you. I would assume that you told them to leave and they decided to stay just because it was public land and open to anyone.
You said you were willing to share the hole but you clearly didn't wan't to share the hole because you had it for several days, and you all ate close to the water to keep your claim on the hole.
Thoughts? Well my guess you met up with a bunch of guys that are probably a lot like you and your buddies. No one was worried about catching fish at that point. All your group wanted was them out and all they wanted was you guys out.
No one cared at that point it was who was going to win the hole.
Congratulations you won.
The incident is still digging at you and probably them too. So you can arm your self like some have said. They might even do the same thing. So next time everyone will be more ready. Next time everyone will be amped up and ready to go. I can't help but wonder how much fun is that?
How much fun will they have?
i don't combat bank fish. I have been asked to go with others several times. I just don't see the fun in the picture your painting.
Now if the guys came in and your bunch invited them in everyone would have been "nice" after a while turns would have been taken and maybe even friendships could have been made. You could have had another bunch of guys to fish with. Instead next time there could be a street fight.
I hope you all cool down before next time. Good luck Ron
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I usually leave my gear at my spot if im not fishing for a few min. However I move the pole an lean it so as to allow others to fish. However if someone new shows up and tries to hog a hole theres usually a conversation. Unfortunetly thats why it pays to fish with a group for steelhead and salmon. If people are pleasant and play by the rules no problem. Be a dick and there will be. I could never figure the attitudes of some people over a fish. I run into people every year that seem to think because "they fish this hole all the time" they have ownership.
Ive seen it get ugly a couple times, which is stupid on both sides. I saw a fisherman throw another into the river at shears falls on the deshutes river in OR. Not acceptable (even though I thought he earned it)
I wasnt there but to me it seems you were in the right and they wernt. River etiquette generally follows the first come first served rule. If you guys were standing there as close as you say with your gear there then they knew you were fishing there. They were being SOBs plain and simple. Kind of have to learn to deal with it or fish the far less productive water.
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I know Dev, his family, and the group hthey fish with, and I understand several points with the above posts. Good etiquette is usually two sided, just as is the "golden rule". Treat others as you want to be treated...
With that being said, there are two ways to look at Dev's scenario...first, no one likes it when folks "move onto a hole" with campers, tents, etc, to tie it up. The unwritten rule is usually, the first one on the hole has his choice of spots...but for several days? If you take a break, move your gear out of the "casting lanes" so that others can fish until you're ready to resume. If you fail to do so, nothing will change your mind faster than having someone not checking behind him before he casts, and there goes your rod & reel into the river.
On the other hand, if I move to a hole that has guys occupying it, usually the simple asking if they mind sharing the water results in a welcome to fish, if there's room for another rod. If not, simply sit and watch for a few minutes. I can't count the number of times I've sat down to watch guys fishing a hole, and had them invite me to join the fray.
A couple of things I can promise you though, and that is, "a jerk is usually treated like a jerk". There's lots of water to fish that holds steelies, so it's not too tough to find water that you can have to yourself.
The other is not all of the fish are caught from the Quake Hole, Dutch Oven, nor the Bath Tub...
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[quote idahoron]You might find some support for your actions but I think most of us will not say anything you want to hear.
To me you quit fishing so your gear should have been moved off the bank. It is public land so they had as much right to fish as you had.
After you were finished eating you crowded them, they told you about it. You "exchanged" words. I read it that you were probably yelling at them and they were yelling at you. I would assume that you told them to leave and they decided to stay just because it was public land and open to anyone.
You said you were willing to share the hole but you clearly didn't wan't to share the hole because you had it for several days, and you all ate close to the water to keep your claim on the hole.
Thoughts? Well my guess you met up with a bunch of guys that are probably a lot like you and your buddies. No one was worried about catching fish at that point. All your group wanted was them out and all they wanted was you guys out.
No one cared at that point it was who was going to win the hole.
Congratulations you won.
The incident is still digging at you and probably them too. So you can arm your self like some have said. They might even do the same thing. So next time everyone will be more ready. Next time everyone will be amped up and ready to go. I can't help but wonder how much fun is that?
How much fun will they have?
i don't combat bank fish. I have been asked to go with others several times. I just don't see the fun in the picture your painting.
Now if the guys came in and your bunch invited them in everyone would have been "nice" after a while turns would have been taken and maybe even friendships could have been made. You could have had another bunch of guys to fish with. Instead next time there could be a street fight.
I hope you all cool down before next time. Good luck Ron[/quote]
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Tsk, tsk, tsk. I think you are dead wrong.
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Well you know it is hard when you drive for so long to fish a section of river that you call your hole. But we have to remember that it is public water and everyone has the right to fish where you are fishing. Personally I disagree with the guys that took over the hole because if i was fishing I would see everyone fishing that section and move on. I really don't like having to fight with other people over a fishing hole. Now i have had guys show up and ask to fish and that is great, I welcome them and learn from them. The guys that moved in on the hole should have asked to fish. If everyone shares the water then everyone has a lot better time. We just all wish that the J.A. would stay home or fish a different section of river. Better luck next time.
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Wow, I'm not sure who to agree with here. Super solid points made by pretty much everybody.
The only thing I don't agree with is referring to salmon and steelhead fishing as combat fishing. If you call S&S fishing combat fishing, I got news for ya: it's greedy, unsocial, selfish people like you who make it that way. These are people just like you that you are complaining about. In steelhead and salmon fishing especially, fishing next to someone DOES NOT decrease your ability to catch a fish. . . your attitude does.
"Combat fishing" can occur on any body of water for any specie. If you expect to catch lots of fish or big fish, or both at the same time, and have it all to yourself, then what are you really doing on this forum? Cancel your BFT subsription. Do we really think we can come on here and blab about fishing for the whole wide world to see, and not have to share the water with anyone?
Sure, sometimes what the body and the mind needs is a bit of solitude, and hopefully there's always a place for each of us to go wet a line and have that.
Sure, sometimes fishing in a crowd can be aggravating. But you want to know what has made me madder than anything while I was out trying to catch a fish? Water skiers, wake boarders, and tubers. Which have never been a problem fishing salmon or steelhead.
A little bit of courtesy goes a long way. And if courtesy to you, means not fishing "my" hole, spot, rock, or near me, then you don't know the meaning of the word. I just got back from fishing steelhead on the Salmon River, below Shoup, in the Dutch Oven area. As bad as it gets right? Well sure enough, some dude and his son from Jerome had the spot/rock that I wanted to fish. So I moved into the next spot down river, rearranged a few rocks, so I had a nice spot to stand, and fished there with them all weekend. The trick was that I immediately started to BS with these guys (not gloating about my best days on the river and one-upping either mind you, just regular old BSing) and made friends with him. So our fishing went great: he waited for me to cast, I waited for him to reel in, our lines only got tangled once or twice at nobody's fault or expense, and we all caught fish.
Sometimes fishing in those large shoulder to shoulder crowds can be the funnest thing ever. All you have to do is start making friends with the people around you, and always wait until the guy (or gal) below you casts, before you launch it in there. Usually all you have to do is wait 20 or 30 seconds for the guy below you to cast to make things run like a well-oiled machine. Some people don't get that though. But once you have already made friends with them, either A) they aren't going to feel OK about doing anything to screw you over, or B) a friendly little chat about 1 simple rule that can make things much better for everyone isn't going to offend anyone.
Besides all that, I haven't even talked about how there is really plenty of river once you learn how to catch them and read water. Sure sometimes those holes are less productive, but if being by yourself is more important, then by all means you can do that.
I love salmon and steelhead fishing, and I will never quit doing it just because it is often crowded. Some of the greatest memories and funniest fishing stories I have happened when fishing around others. I will make more friends, have more laughs, and slap more hands than "combat fishing" haters will ever fathom.
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I agree with Riverdog. You were not fishing, but eating. They were within their right and obviously, it is a good hole. Maybe they knew that as well. Sounds like it. They did not crowd you, you were not fishing.
Maybe taking turns eating might have changed the outcome.
I don't know that I would have asked permission, but I would be civil and introduce myself. Tried to work things out all the way around, but in all honesty, I see your group crowding them not the other way around, but I stand in the river to change flies for that very reason....LOL
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I would be quite upset if I took a break and was sitting on the hole and someone came in and started fishing. Especially a group of 5 guys. Yes they should have asked permission or at least asked to join, but people are different and they did have the right to do what they did. Some people just do not care about manners, or being polite.
I live in Salmon and stay away from below Shoup during March as I just do not enjoy fishing elbow to elbow. I guarantee that if you take some time and learn the river you can fish all day long and not be crowded and catch steelhead. I don't understand why people think you "have" to fish below Shoup to do any good. My best day ever was right at the 4th of July creek boat launch.
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Moving in to fish while your eating is bad enough. Touching your equipment is a no, no... In my opinion it is like a law of the west you don't touch another mans hat or his fishing rod without asking.
Do they have a "right" to fish the hole since you stopped to eat? Yes.
Is it the polite thing to do? No
Windriver
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I agree is certainly wasn't polite to touch someone else's gear. But is it polite to leave your gear in position so someone else will have a hard time fishing should they want to fish? I wouldn't do either ever. I think the key in all these situations is to communicate. Those eating could have said do you need us to move our gear out of your way. The group approaching should have asked if you mind us fishing this hole. Again I personally I'm going to skip the hole even if I waited days to fish it and this was the first time it was open at the end of the day. I voluntarily gave up a hole after a couple hours of hooking into a several dozens 15-20 lb bright silvers last summer because someone else came along. Miles of empty river to fish but I had the prime spot below the falls stacked up with fish. I figured someone else should get a chance to enjoy such an outstanding fishing experience. It's fishing. I'm not going to flaunt a gun, fight or yell at someone over it.
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[quote iwantabuggy][quote idahoron]You might find some support for your actions but I think most of us will not say anything you want to hear.
To me you quit fishing so your gear should have been moved off the bank. It is public land so they had as much right to fish as you had.
After you were finished eating you crowded them, they told you about it. You "exchanged" words. I read it that you were probably yelling at them and they were yelling at you. I would assume that you told them to leave and they decided to stay just because it was public land and open to anyone.
You said you were willing to share the hole but you clearly didn't wan't to share the hole because you had it for several days, and you all ate close to the water to keep your claim on the hole.
Thoughts? Well my guess you met up with a bunch of guys that are probably a lot like you and your buddies. No one was worried about catching fish at that point. All your group wanted was them out and all they wanted was you guys out.
No one cared at that point it was who was going to win the hole.
Congratulations you won.
The incident is still digging at you and probably them too. So you can arm your self like some have said. They might even do the same thing. So next time everyone will be more ready. Next time everyone will be amped up and ready to go. I can't help but wonder how much fun is that?
How much fun will they have?
i don't combat bank fish. I have been asked to go with others several times. I just don't see the fun in the picture your painting.
Now if the guys came in and your bunch invited them in everyone would have been "nice" after a while turns would have been taken and maybe even friendships could have been made. You could have had another bunch of guys to fish with. Instead next time there could be a street fight.
I hope you all cool down before next time. Good luck Ron[/quote]
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Tsk, tsk, tsk. I think you are dead wrong.[/quote]
What is it they say opinions are like B-holes everyone has one and they all stink[cool]
You have your opinion I have mine. I carry a gun for protection for me and my family but I am not going to defend a fishing spot with deadly force. Ron
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Im with you on this one windriver good point.
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Thats quite the novel gome.
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You say you were fishing that hole when you got there on Tuesday, you fished it Wednesday, Thursday and this happened on your 10th hour of fishing on Friday. That's a lot of time on one hole. But I agree with Riverdog on all accounts. Not good to mess with or touch others property, but not good to hog a hole for 4 days and get pissed on the tenth hour of the 4 th day. I would have pulled the rods and brought them up to the camper.
And as for packing a piece, don't forget, the other guys might be packing to, only larger caliber and could be better shots. And if you do pack, and you pull it out or just show it to someone not threatening you, you better be ready for the consequences that will result from that action.
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[quote Got_Bait]Wow, I'm not sure who to agree with here. Super solid points made by pretty much everybody.
The only thing I don't agree with is referring to salmon and steelhead fishing as combat fishing. If you call S&S fishing combat fishing, I got news for ya: it's greedy, unsocial, selfish people like you who make it that way. These are people just like you that you are complaining about. In steelhead and salmon fishing
especially, fishing next to someone DOES NOT decrease your ability to catch a fish. . . your attitude does.
"
Combat fishing" can occur on any body of water for any specie. If you expect to catch lots of fish or big fish, or both at the same time, and have it all to yourself, then what are you really doing on this forum? Cancel your BFT subsription. Do we really think we can come on here and blab about fishing for the whole wide world to see, and not have to share the water with anyone?
Sure, sometimes what the body and the mind needs is a bit of solitude, and hopefully there's always a place for each of us to go wet a line and have that.
Sure, sometimes fishing in a crowd can be aggravating. But you want to know what has made me madder than anything while I was out trying to catch a fish? Water skiers, wake boarders, and tubers. Which have never been a problem fishing salmon or steelhead.
A little bit of courtesy goes a long way. And if courtesy to you, means not fishing "my" hole, spot, rock, or near me, then you don't know the meaning of the word. I just got back from fishing steelhead on the Salmon River, below Shoup, in the Dutch Oven area. As bad as it gets right? Well sure enough, some dude and his son from Jerome had the spot/rock that I wanted to fish. So I moved into the next spot down river, rearranged a few rocks, so I had a nice spot to stand, and fished there with them all weekend. The trick was that I immediately started to BS with these guys (not gloating about my best days on the river and one-upping either mind you, just regular old BSing) and made friends with him. So our fishing went great: he waited for me to cast, I waited for him to reel in, our lines only got tangled once or twice at nobody's fault or expense, and we all caught fish.
Sometimes fishing in those large shoulder to shoulder crowds can be the funnest thing ever. All you have to do is start making friends with the people around you, and always wait until the guy (or gal) below you casts, before you launch it in there. Usually all you have to do is wait 20 or 30 seconds for the guy below you to cast to make things run like a well-oiled machine. Some people don't get that though. But once you have already made friends with them, either A) they aren't going to feel OK about doing anything to screw you over, or B) a friendly little chat about 1 simple rule that can make things much better for everyone isn't going to offend anyone.
Besides all that, I haven't even talked about how there is really plenty of river once you learn how to catch them and read water. Sure sometimes those holes are less productive, but if being by yourself is more important, then by all means you can do that.
I love salmon and steelhead fishing, and I will never quit doing it just because it is often crowded. Some of the greatest memories and funniest fishing stories I have happened when fishing around others. I will make more friends, have more laughs, and slap more hands than "combat fishing" haters will ever fathom.[/quote]
You are my new Hero....[
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I have had people crowd me a little when I am trolling. I let them know that their lures will pop my boat and they need to give me some space for safety. I have seen Salmon Falls Dam look kind of busy but never combat fishing. I have seen some very busy crappie fishing at strike. I hardly even see a person when I am catfishing. Maybe that is another reason I like catfishing.
Getting off the bank and into the water either in a boat, tube or toon seems to reduce some of the combat.
Ron
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