Fishing Forum

Does anyone have some general tips for fishing smaller streams such as Millcreek and Big Cotton wood?

I have been able to catch fish on the "larger" rivers such as the Ogden or Weber quit easily.

I have been skunked three times and lost about 6 flies each trip to Big cotton.

Should I be using a much smaller leader. Maybe just 3-5 feet of tippet attached to my butt section?

Its frustrating trying to cast 6 inches of fly line followed by 8 feet of Fluorocarbon.

Thanks!
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usually when i go fly fishing on small streams like up in the high uinta river when its low, little and big cotton wood creek i usually use elk hair caddis, wolly bugger with a flasher on the back, and some time a prince nymphy.

If you want a challenge to catch fish go to little cottonwood creek its not so easy to find the fish XD. 2 years ago i found a hole nailed about 13 bows in 30 min last summer i went only caught 2 or 3 and lost 3-6 in a 2 hr fishing up there. Some years are great some years are slow. Im not so sure how good it is because i went there last month and nothing. I usually go up there when the october fest is on or when its a nice warm summer day and the caddis are around.

Hope this help you ^_^
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I used to fish big cottonwood creek 2-5 times a week all year round when I lived in the area. Things I learned are:
-Sometimes "matching the hatch" didn't work. Even though there are mayflies, caddis, small stones, or a butt load of midges coming off the water, the smaller fish were the only ones hitting the top. right below the surface film, and even right on the bottom with emergers or nymphs produced better many times I encountered this.
-Pockets, pockets, pockets. That's where those fish like to hold. Not a lot of stretches in those waters that afford long pretty casts. These waters force you to take what you know about casting and adapt to the situations of tight rolls, flipping, and just flat out awkward casts. It will make you better through trial and error!
-Lighter tippet is going to be neccessary if you want to fool the hold over fish in these real clear waters.
-The water runs quick, and fish have a split second to decide whether to take your fly or not. The name of the fly doesnt matter as much as getting close to the size and color of what they are keying on. This is basic for most rivers, but if you know you are drifting past fish and they aren't acting interested or are just flashing your fly, think outside of the box. Sometimes what they need is a larger "attractor" fly followed closely by something smaller. the big one gets their attention, the smaller one gets their bite.
-Lots of flies. Don't be upset about snagging overhead trees and losing flies. It's an expected casualty when fishing these tight waters. Heavier tippet might save some of these flies, but you will miss out on the warier fish.
-Move around. Campgrounds and pull offs get hit pretty hard. Don't be afraid to explore and hop up and down the canyons and walk stretches to get to spots that have less pressure. And don't be afraid to throw in weird spots, fish hide everywhere they can!

A lot of this long reply is basic stuff, but Big Cottonwood and Little Cottonwood, and some Millcreek is really what gave me the best learning experiences that I carried with me and applied to every other river system I have fished. It's not about the numbers or the size. Those creeks hold some pretty neat fish. I caught one 16" rainbow in the same 40yd stretch of Big Cottonwood three times in a year and a half: winter, following summer, and the next spring. Had very distinct markings and a missing fin, and was in a section very overlooked. Pretty cool to see that fish hold over.

Have fun and push yourself. A couple flies a trip is pretty cheap for treasures so close!
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I have no idea what gear you are using, but you can use a 9'er. Don't think casting, but lobbing.
I use a 5' furled leader with 2' to 4' of fluoro attached to it. I think you need a GOOD leader to put the fly where you need it.
I have fished both those small canyon streams. Love it, but again, no over head casting. Sometimes a side arm, or a flip.

If a nine foot rod is what you have, you really could use a longer leader (9'). I would even try longer and use the rod more like a Tenkara.
Stay low out of sight, and flip the leader up stream.
You do need a GREAT tapered leader to put the fly where it needs to be. If you are using just straight fluoro, you have no control over the fly.
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In BCC use cover and stay stealthy....they spook way too easily!
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As has been pointed out with a 9 ft rod traditional casting can be tough on small brushy streams. Got to learn new techniques. If you do have a 6 or 7 ft rod you can probable do some casting in some stretches. I would suggest shortening your leader/tippet. Various companies sell 6 and 7 and a half foot tapered leaders. A leader already shorten from previous use is ideal. I'd suggest 6x leader and skipping the tippet altogether or limiting it to a foot or so if really needed. I enjoy casting as much as possible so this is usually my approach. You can still dapple the fly with a shorter rod if you need to at times. I'll occasionally use the bow and arrow technique in tight spaces. I'll cast with my left hand a few time most outings where the space constraints make that necessary. I find variations on the snake and reverse snake roll cast to be my standby techniques if there is some opening to either side but not behind me. Just do whatever you need to do to get the fly where you want it. Precision casting is a must. An inch difference means the difference in catching fish and snagging flies in many situations. Good way to develop such accuracy if you don't already have it down. It can still be tough at times so you also got to learn what stretches of water are going to be less productive with the gear you're using. Last winter somebody on a very small tight stream in Southern Utah apparently had all they could take and went through and pruned back an area of a stream I like to fish. While it was easier to cast the fishing wasn't better for me. Remember that when you get frustrated the first few times and you are tempted to bring the pruners with you next time[laugh].
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FlyGoddess hit my suggestion but I'll say it again--grab yourself a Tenkara rod, small mountain streams are what they were made for. Tie on a short line of 10-12' and maybe 2-3' of tippet. Rods are long enough and the line is thin enough that you'll keep all of it off the water. I've fished sections of Little Cottonwood that I absolutely could not have fished with a regular flyrod. You can get them from TenkaraUSA.com for $135-165 plus line (furled leaders FlyGoddess or direct from the site for $20ish, or a 75' spool of level line that you cut to different lengths for $20). Another less expensive option is a Fountainhead rod for $50--I have one from both TenkaraUSA and Fountainhead--the second one is softer but overall still a good choice.

Mike
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[quote riverdog]As has been pointed out with a 9 ft rod traditional casting can be tough on small brushy streams. Got to learn new techniques. If you do have a 6 or 7 ft rod you can probable do some casting in some stretches. I would suggest shortening your leader/tippet. Various companies sell 6 and 7 and a half foot tapered leaders. A leader already shorten from previous use is ideal. I'd suggest 6x leader and skipping the tippet altogether or limiting it to a foot or so if really needed. I enjoy casting as much as possible so this is usually my approach. You can still dapple the fly with a shorter rod if you need to at times. I'll occasionally use the bow and arrow technique in tight spaces. I'll cast with my left hand a few time most outings where the space constraints make that necessary. I find variations on the snake and reverse snake roll cast to be my standby techniques if there is some opening to either side but not behind me. Just do whatever you need to do to get the fly where you want it. Precision casting is a must. An inch difference means the difference in catching fish and snagging flies in many situations. Good way to develop such accuracy if you don't already have it down. It can still be tough at times so you also got to learn what stretches of water are going to be less productive with the gear you're using. Last winter somebody on a very small tight stream in Southern Utah apparently had all they could take and went through and pruned back an area of a stream I like to fish. While it was easier to cast the fishing wasn't better for me. Remember that when you get frustrated the first few times and you are tempted to bring the pruners with you next time[laugh].[/quote]






Really?
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I purchased a 7'6 4 wt rod in hopes it would make these streams easier. I haven't seen a HUGE difference in this rod from my 9 footer on smaller streams besides being able to crawl into some tighter places

I do however love it. It works wonders for me on the weber and other streams.

Thanks for the suggestions. I am wondering if I should just use a foot of butt section followed by 2 feet of tippet. Guess i'll have to experiment with that or a shorter tapered leader. I'll just have to experiment with non conventional casting techniques.

On another note, I bought some rio gold fly line. The guys at fish tech said it floats extremely high and I would love it. For some reason about the first 6 inches or so always sinks and doesn't float very well. Its a WF taper and isn't a sinking tip line. It's not dirty either. I don't know why it tends to do this. My cheaper starter rode line never really did this.
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That four weight can be a blast. You are going to love it I bet. What is it? Fast action, medium action?
I am not getting the Butt section and tippet concept however. I was hoping Riverdog would pipe in.
Butt section being the stiffest portion of a leader, I just see 6X tippet or even 5X just hinging bad off a butt section.
I am spoiled by furled leaders though.
I haven't been fishing for trout lately, but the Carp get way spooked. I am fishing canals that are very narrow and limiting casting big time, but the leader is getting my fly right on target. 5' furled and 3' of tippet.
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I fish a lot of small streams. Many of them are jungles that only allow short lob, swing, or flip casts.

I experimented with just attaching a short length of tippet to the fly line in order to be able to have enough fly line out in order to cast. It worked ok, but it was very hard not to line or spook the fish.

Since then I have gone to a short furled leader. It can be cast by itself. It makes a world of difference on the small streams. The key is that since it can be cast by itself so easily, it doesn't matter that I don't have room to get much fly line out. I can cast and flip the furled leader with great control, and I spook fewer fish.

Another necessity for me on small streams is knee pads. They really save wear and tear on the waders and on my knees! Harbor Freight frequently them on sale.
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Lots of good info here!! For small water I prefer a 2-wt, 7 ft, with a furled leader and LOTS of light tippet. Most casts are upstream flips and rolls, followed by a 3 to 5 second drifts
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Bout tilme you popped in...slacker! Let's go fish, tin can is almost done and new 9.9 Honda motor getting all tuned up.
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Me ===>


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All I meant was using a leader shortened a bit after the taper. I didn't say tie to the butt section. Rather than just cutting off an extra half foot of the leader that could have been used on a more open stream. And using a five and a half ft leader instead of 6 ft leader can make a difference with casting a 6 ft rod in tight spaces. I really enjoy the casting aspect of fly fishing so I'll do a lot to make it work if at all possible. I don't mind dappling the fly some to catch fish if I need to. However I'm not going to spend an afternoon doing it the whole time.
FG,
Believe it or not there are people that do things differently than you and catch fish. I'm just given some suggestions besides yours not in place of yours. Who knows maybe a few of the people who read it will enjoy fly fishing over tenkara style fishing on small streams like I do.
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I agree that a shorter leader might have merit. But, don't cut the end. Cut the loop and tie a new perfection loop. That way you get a shorter leader but retain the fine end. In small water you news to be a sneaky so and so.
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Well, after about 4 and a half hrs on Big cotton today, I can officially say there are fish! I managed to catch 1, 10 inch cut. Whats funny is, its where I had least expected to catch a fish. Was a random hole with some white water.

What really chaps my ass, I caught this fish after losing about 10 flies to some rocks and trees. Eventually, I caught this fish using a size 12, 20 incher.

I only switched to this stone fly after I had seen this HUGE bug on a stone. This thing looked like a yellow jacket with an extra long body with HUGE legs.

I assumed it was a stone fly. So I made an educated guess. Two casts later and BAM, got me a fish.

Well that was all my excitement for the day. Not much action but was a great experience since the fish I had caught was on a fly I had tied.

I know understand the value of riverdogs methods. Which coincide with my methodologies. Tying on a fly and rollin out. I have lost so many flies with little production. The moment I had given up worrying about my rig and just concentrated on 'fishing" worked for me. I am quit stubborn and will fly fish any waters. It was awesome to finally catch one after 25 flies.

p.s.
If anyone wants some company let me know. (willing to hike anywhere)

P.s.s. Tenkara flyfishin isn't my style. I want to cast, cast, cast. If fish aren't going to bit then move on. I don't much like dabbling a fly.

Good luck!!!
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I get that you are not into Tenkara. My suggestion was it is another option and little chance of loosing flies doing so.

You like to cast. You want to take the butt section and add tippet. It is not ideal to cast this, but whatever works.

The internet offers all sorts of suggestions, as I did, that is all.

Given the new information on rod length my choice would still be a 6' furled leader and tippet added to that. You can cast a furled leader just like fly line, but not loose the delicate taper like a chopped up leader and the fly line need not leave the tip of the rod to do this.

Carry on, tight lines

FG
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Kind of sounds like a crane fly!
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[quote riverdog]
FG,
Believe it or not there are people that do things differently than you and catch fish. I'm just given some suggestions besides yours not in place of yours. Who knows maybe a few of the people who read it will enjoy fly fishing over tenkara style fishing on small streams like I do.[/quote]


You wanna explain this? Why you jumpin' my ----- for giving my opinion? I did ask you to explain yours.....are we suppose to just stop there?
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