Fishing Forum

So I am thinkin about putting a set of snow skis on my sled and putting about 6 or 8 inches between skis and sled. my theory here is the less surface area I have the less drag I create.. seems logical right? i just dont know how well the sled will turn with the skis on it. Just wondering if anyone on here has done anything similar to this and would have any advise or pointers. I just haaaaaate dragging my sled through deep snow and especially slush. I have an indy 650 that im going to use to be my mule but for some occasions a snow machine is pointless. any info is appreciated thanks!

Watch out for the tip-over factor. Even surface sliding sleds going up & down some of the winding access trails to & from the ice take the dreaded dump.
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You could check the Ice Fishing board. There's been a few sled threads there.

[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=772908;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread"]Here's one from scraps and skis.[/url]
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=775367;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread"]And Idahopanfish had a whole series on his sled-antics.[/url]

I've been thinking about trying it too. Got sets of skis that aren't gonna see much other action. Might as well. Thought maybe even make a frame I could strap my Jetsled onto - for the deeper snow days.

I stilll use one I made in College very cheep when I have little gear going. 1X4 runners with 3/4" polly pipe cut length wise and screwed on the sides and tapered in the front. About 2'x3' long and 20" tall box. Has a mount for the graph and transducer "T" pole and the hand auger on the back. Plastic on the bottom for deep snow. A couple of inchers higher would be nice at times.
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I don't have any pics of my old one but I had a wooden crate on old skis about 6" above the skis. I bought the skis at DI or something like that and hacked them down to size.
Space the skis as far apart as possible to help with the tip-over factor and your sled will work great.
On extremely cold days put a chunk of ice or a snowball under one ski to create a little gap between the skis and the ice or they will freeze down.
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Ya thats good to know I would never have thought about the skis freezing to the ice. I have a pretty good sized sled so I know I will have plenty of room for my gear I also like the idea of just being able to anchor my sled to the skis on an "as needed" basis so when i do pull with the snow machine I dont need to worry as much about dumping it. and so I can load the sled and the skid in the truck easier.

One thing you may want to consider is the larger surface area of the sled will help it to "float" up ontop of the snow, whereas the skis will sink below the surface of the snow and actually create more drag to pull. Also on the areas prior to getting onto the ice, the uneven and sloped areas, the broader surface area of the sled without skis will be more stable.
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I think I am going to extend the width of the skis past the sled to compensate for the added height. and you are right about stability being pretty crucial before I even get to the ice. But I have decided im not going to make this a permanent addition to the sled maybe just an add-on when i want to. But I still think if the skis sink in the snow it will still be easier to pull especially if I load it heavy in the rear and leave the skis full length. The plastic my sled is made out of is terrible for this but great for durability. I guess you have to give a little to get a little. I will post pics throught the process and you never know i just might do something wrong and get this right!

You are right, it never hurts to try something new! I love the enginuitive (is that a word?) attitude. Good luck with it and I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
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[cool][#0000ff]Ice sleds are best under "moderate" snow conditions...with a minimum of hard packed snow. They bog down in deep powder and they wear through the bottom if you drag them across bare ground, gravel and pavement.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I came up with a "sled cart" thing a couple of years ago...for winters when there is less snow between your vehicle and the ice. Here's a copy of my original post.[/#0000ff]
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[cool][#0000ff]There are times (like right now) when the snow melts away around the access areas of a lake while there is still good ice (and snow) on the lake itself. In those situations we sometimes have to park a ways from our lake access spot and drag our heavy sleds across dirt, gravel, grass and even pavement. Not good for the sled and a real "drag".[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]A couple of years ago I started making some wheeled contrivances from golf cart wheels with which to haul my loaded up float tubes from my vehicle to more distance launch spots. A lot of golf carts have those removable wheels that slip onto a 3/8" metal shaft and you tighten them down with a set screw. You can install a 3/8" metal bolt in a PVC frame and put those golf cart wheels to good use for other things...like a cart to get your ice sled to the ice across hostile terrain.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]Here are some pictures of my prototype. I tried it in my driveway and a short distance up my street...before the neighbors started calling Homeland Security, reporting terrorist activities. It works well for short hauls. I have since used it a couple of times and it does the job...as long as you don't try to carry too much weight in the sled.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]The design is simple...a PVC frame with a riser that slips up through a hole in the rail of the sled for stabiizing. The frame is tightened around the sled with a couple of bungee cords. Easy attach and detach. And when not needed you just turn the cart upside down, push the risers down through the holes and keep on truckin'. Doesn't take up any room and can help secure the other goodies in your sled.[/#0000ff]
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[#0000ff]I can also verify that the wide surface on the golf cart wheels track easily over soft sand, mud and even some snow. So you don't have to keep changing the setup if you don't want to.[/#0000ff]

[#0000ff]There. Is that enough PVC fer ya?[/#0000ff]

[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=57633"]GOLF CART.jpg[/url] (381 KB)
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=57634"]TUBE CART.jpg[/url] (296 KB)
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=57635"]WHEEL ASSEMBLY.jpg[/url] (340 KB)
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=57636"]CART INSTALLED.jpg[/url] (291 KB)
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=57637"]INSTALLED CLOSEUP.jpg[/url] (313 KB)
[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/cgi-bin/gforum/gforum.cgi?do=post_attachment;postatt_id=57638"]ON TOP NOT NEEDED.jpg[/url] (223 KB)
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If drag is your issue, what about trying to change the bottom of your sled rather than going through all the extra effort.

Drag is a result of surface area, pressure/sq inch, and the friction coefficient of the two materials in contact. I doubt adding skis will help because of less surface area in contact as the pressure on every square inch of the skis will be much higher than on the sled bottom. Your gain will likely be because of the friction coefficient of the skis on snow/ice.

I'm not a skier, so don't know all that is done to make skis slick, but isn't there a wax applied to the bottom of skis? Could not the bottom of your sled by waxed periodically to achieve the same result without building onto it? Or teflon slids like are used some boat trailer pads?
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[quote Charina]isn't there a wax applied to the bottom of skis? Could not the bottom of your sled by waxed periodically[/quote]

Bingo !!! Its pretty common for people to wax the bottom of there sleds you can buy the ski wax kind expensive or do like I do and take a old candle, melt it, and spread across the bottom. Watch you sled glide across the snow. [cool][cool]

As far as gravel goes TD;s wheel idea looks good I know at in th epast Ive had to drag my sled across the asphalt parking lot and road near cemetery point a wheel would have worked great there.
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Ive tried waxing the bejeesus out of the bottom of my sled.. used candles used board wax even tried to smooth the surface good with the heat gun. wax peels off first 50 yds. Am I not doing it right?

your thinking is backwards your sled will drag real bad with just the skis plus when you raise the cg and norrow the stance in will tip onto its side easier,drag won,t be a problem if you pull it with a snowmobile,if you pull it by hand you may notice a difference.try wd40 on the sled bottom or pam non stick coatings either one will be slippery and last all day.good luck.[fishin]
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The ski's work really well. Less surface area, less drag, easier pulling. They ride on snow really well. One sled I made of plywood I put the ski's on the edge of a 2x4 to place it 3.5 inches higher. Then I mounted the 2x4 to another flat 2x4 so it could be mounted to the bottom of the sled, that gave me 5 inches of space between the top of the ski and bottom of the sled. You can go to DI or someplace like that and pick up used ski's very cheep. I have seen no difference is stability.

I took a piece of 2 inch pvc pipe, heated it to make a slight bend in the front and back to keep it from filling with snow and mounted it to the jet sled. It rides the best on snow and ice. Very little friction, very small amount of surface drag and pulls extremely easy. If the snow is deep powder, the runners will sink into the powder and ride on the bottom of the jet sled. The PVC is about 1/4 to 3/16 inch thick and will wear a long time pulling it across asphalt or concrete when the snow is non existant. By far better than the flat bottom of the sled.
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I'm a little by this last post. Are you describing two different processes that you used for two different sleds? I understand that you mounted old snow skis under a sheet of plywood using 2X4s in the first process/sled and that you used PVC pipe (under a plastic sled?) in the second. Is that correct? If so, I'm most interested in the PVC pipe runners you made for underneath your plastic sled. Can you give us more details or post a photo? Thanks!
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Thats the logic I am trying to use here maybe more wight on the skis but far less surface area on the snow. I especially hate pulling in the slush.. And I do have a snowmobile to pull with but when I just run up to EC or somewhere like that its not worth the time draggin the snowmobile up with me. Strawberry, the gorge, PV, even Hyrum is worth it though! So here is my plan. I have some 1/2" sq tubing some 2" sch 80 pipe and some 8' k2 skis. when I draw it up on my software it tells me its going to weigh 9.4 lbs when I get it all welded up plus of course the weight of the skis. should be rigid enough to support about 200 lbs which is going to be more than adequate for my needs. im gunna hit it hard tomorrow so I will be posting pics of my creation

Hey Tube Dude I am getting to old to keep raising my floattube above my head to walk to the water. I really like the Golf cart idea. Do you have anymore close ups of the setup. And do you have any problems pulling it threw the weeds. like from the parking lot at Chicken Creek West to the water[fishin] at Strawberry for example. All so what holds it on to the cart bungie cords
Thanks
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[cool][#0000FF]Well, we are a bit off the subject of ice fishing, but here are a few more pics of my current tube cart.

I bungee down the frame on the bottom and then the other stuff on the top. You can see the custom green bungee cords in the pics.

I look for trails wide enough to take the cart. Otherwise everything gets hung up on anything and everything. Murphy's Law.
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I realize this is an old thread, but has recently been resurrected, and if the OP moves as fast as I do on some projects, there is a good chance he hasn't done anything yet...I'm replying because this thread actually got me thinking a little bit.

I have not tried your idea out in real life, but I don't think it will work BETTER (ie: Skis on a sled) and here is why:

It's all about surface area and friction. To put it simply lets say you have a sled that weighs 800 lbs (...just like Kents, lol!) and it has a surface area on the bottom of 12 square feet (3' wide by 4' long). That is 1728 square inches. Simply dividing the weight by the square inches yields a weight of .46 lbs. per square inch. Now lets say that you replace that surface area with two skis, that are 5 feet long by 3 inches wide, that reduces it's square inch footprint down to just 360 square inches, which is 2.22 lbs. per square inch. Same weight...but more weight per square inch = harder to pull. Sinks more, etc.

I'll demonstrate this theory (and mind you...it's just a theory of mine at this point...actually would like to try it in real life since I'm no engineer or rocket scientist) with a real life experience of my own. I used to own a 14' aluminum boat, with a 15 horse evinrude engine on it. With just myself, and my gear, on the Berry, I could go about 16 mph (GPS) with this set up. Well, I got a good deal on a 16' boat (which has a larger surface area) and so I bought it and transferred the same engine and equipment over to the new boat. I was expecting to go slower. Bigger boat = more weight = less speed, right?
Well, to my utter amazement...I can now go 18mph!!! I thought at first that somehow I had acccidentally bumped the previously hidden turbo button on the engine or something, but when I explained this phenomena to a buddy, he shrugged and said that was to be expected, due to the reduction in friction due to the increase in surface area with the same weight.

Now obviously there are a LOT of factors (shape/size/weight/snow density/altitude,etc), but in simple terms if pulling the same weight, in same conditions...even given the added surface tension friction, within limits, I think that the larger area yields the easiest pull with an ice sled.

I like the idea of waxing it up, to further reduce the friction.

Flamesuit on...let it burn...anxious to hear opinions of real engineers, mathematicians and rocket scientists...
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