This is to maybe help answer the pelican question on the tournament post.
[quote flygoddess] Chesterfield is also more shallow.
I would also like to know what the Pelicans had to do with the no decision.[/quote]
F&G do much of their stocking in the fall now hoping to miss the spring migration of the fish eating birds like the cormorants and pelicans. Unfortunately this year we had very low water combined with a warmer fall. The pelicans had not left and the low water provided them with some great feasting this year. Chesterfield was especially at risk because so much of it is shallower. The newly stocked fish seek those shallower areas and are too innocent to realize that the birds swimming over head are herding them into shallower water to be eaten! That may make it so there are fewer big fish when this year class would have been the hold-overs in a year or two.
Condie is one that may take years to recover. It has gotten down to its minimum pool before in years past and the fish have survived. It maybe doubtful this year because of the pelicans. They worked that small pool over hard. If you look at Condie in the Sept 2012 sat picture on Google Earth you can count about 50 pelicans on the water and the shore. They were there for months. You can also count about 25 on Winder. Only a couple on Chesterfield, but it hadn't been stocked yet. After it was stocked I am sure it was hit hard.
The pelicans are Federally protected. Idaho F&G have repeatedly petitioned to be able to reduce their numbers. Maybe some day....
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Thanks for the detailed answer. I am betting this is true with several lakes.
I will just stay away till they go....LOL Either that or take an umbrella.
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A pelican bounty would be helpful. While I support sustaining their natural numbers I also support keeping them to their natural habitat.
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SSS is all I have to say
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I forgot to add that a pelican eats 6 to 9 POUNDS of fish per day. That is a LOT of predation! I am surprised any fish makes it past them on these low water years.
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I understand they are a migratory bird and that puts them under fedral protection, but when is enough enough? If a coyote or wolf killed like this the f&g wouldnt allow it. I heard a couple years ago they were tying to disrupt nesting ground at black foot res. but sense havnt heard anything they have been doing. Like has been stated when will they allow the public to handle this.
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I think they are still working on getting a handle on the pelican problem. The best card they can play with the feds is that the pelicans endanger a unique branch of Yellowstone cutts on the upper Blackfoot River. So most of the work and studies are with the upper Blackfoot and where it flows into the Blackfoot Reservoir, This video shows how the pelicans are a problem with the adult cutts going up river, and they even eat 70 % of the juveniles returning to the reservoir. Low water years nearly wipe the cutt population out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7k8Qhfzw8s
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This news article outlines some of Idaho's proposals and the feds' answer. At least how it stood in 2009. I don't know if that has changed any.
http://phys.org/news165735854.html
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I would love to take a pelican or two out. 3 years ago i was fishing a tourney at CJ Strike. I got pooped on by a pelican. Do you have any idea how much they poop in one drop. it was horrible... we got third place. Still not worth it. I want revenge!
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Sand Hill Cranes are migratory birds that were protected for years and now they draw some permits . Hopefully they will do the same with Pelicans . Curt G.
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Actually it is up for debate to what extent the pelicans existed in Idaho prior to european settlement. Pelicans thrive in environments where islands provide safe nesting grounds and those types of environments did not exist in Idaho prior to man-made reservoirs.
So the idea of "natural numbers" is somewhat unknown for pelicans in this area. The blackfoot reservoir population has gone from 200 in 1993 to 2400 in 2008. Attempts to limit reproductive success by placing egg-eating predators (skunks and badgers) failed in 2010 when the badgers and skunks all swam to the mainland rather than stay on the islands.
As I see it we (man) have created an unnatural environment (the reservoirs) that has caused an imbalance in the relationship between predator and prey. Because of that, environmentalists need to recognize that the pelicans should take a back seat to the cutthroat that we do know existed in higher numbers in the past.
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I can accept all that. I remember when seeing a pelican was a rarity.
We need some kind of eradication process that reduces the numbers back to an acceptable ratio for our fisheries.
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[quote MMDon]I can accept all that. I remember when seeing a pelican was a rarity.
We need some kind of eradication process that reduces the numbers back to an acceptable ratio for our fisheries.[/quote]
I remember this also. I believe hawks and alot of the preditory birds are out of wack. While cutting hay this summer we had some pheasant chicks held up in the last strip of alfalfa still standing and we had 5 hawks circling them. I left that last strip for protection but those hawks picked them off one by one...
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I wonder if pelican tastes like chicken [sly]
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I would bet like merganser/merganzer.
Found one this fall on Pali
es all dried up and mummified. Even having watched them for a few years now more closely I was amazed at how big a bird they really are. Definately take a lot of fish to keep them going.
Where I go on Blackfoot I see them but it wasn't until this fall when the water had dropped further than it had in the few years I have been going over did I see swarms of them where I go. I knew they were there, had seen them, but just not swarms of them.
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Quote:Pelicans thrive in environments where islands provide safe nesting grounds and those types of environments did not exist in Idaho prior to man-made reservoirs.
The Snake River stretch that I fish is 19 miles. There are 23 islands. I'm fairly sure those islands were there before there were any reservoirs. There are lots of pelicans.
Maybe we need to train wolves to eat pelicans.
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So if IF&G wants to cut the pelican population in half, the feds say it might be irreversable? And what is the status of pelicans? Are they endangered?
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There was a decline of pelicans in the DDT era, and they were listed as endanger then. They were taken off the endangered list back in abt 1989.
I am not sure what their status is. I think they are listed as a "threaten" species or a species of "special concern". They also have federal protection or jurisdiction since they are a migratory bird.
When F&G was putting fences on the islands, they had to do it before the birds came back. Once the birds are there, they can't do anything. So there must be some laws or regulations about "bothering" their nesting areas etc.
I wonder if a herd of sheep would like to graze on those islands in the spring???? hmmm Anyone know of some sheep that swim well??? [laugh][laugh][laugh]
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I believe that even though the river contains small islands, it is my opinion the man made resevoirs have provided more habitat area to these migratory birds. plenty of stocked fish also provide to their massive diet needs.
I don't see the feds removing the pelicans from the protection anytime soon. Its been mentioned before, like the wolves take from hunters, the pelicans take a massive amount of fish from anglers.
seems like a healthy snow pack is the only thing that will slow them down from cutting down the cutthroat population on the blackfoot rive system. any way of knowing how this current years snow pack is compared to the 238% levels of 2 years ago? are we lower then normal?
match
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I know that our snow isn't near the record high level of 238% nor is it the low of last year.
We are at about 70 to 80% of the average for this date. That isn't a year total percent, but a percent for the average of 15 of Jan.
[url "ftp://ftp.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/data/water/wcs/gis/maps/id_swepctnormal_update.pdf"]ftp://ftp.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/...pctnormal_update.pdf[/url]
Better than last year so far, so I am hoping fo.r a growing snow pack. This year was really hard on our reservoirs and streams. Take a look at Condi in Google Earth. Sad!
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