Fishing Forum

Some time ago I was criticized for carrying a gun while fishing. Today I came across the article that summarizes my feelings about carrying guns fairly well. I'm not trying to stir things up, just thought this was worth sharing.

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[size 3]The Gun IsCivilization"

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. Ifyou want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing mevia argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every humaninteraction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reasonor force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact throughpersuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and theonly thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, asparadoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reasonand try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat oremployment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equalfooting with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload ofdrunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physicalstrength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad forceequations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if allguns were removed from society. But, a firearm makes it easier for an armedmugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potentialvictims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat - it has novalidity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young,the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society.A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a societywhere the state has granted him a force monopoly .

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal thatotherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in severalways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superiorparty inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethalforce, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with abloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier, workssolely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both arearmed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian asit is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply would not work as well as aforce equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but becauseI'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced,only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables meto be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact withme through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. Itremoves force from the equation...And that's why carrying a gun is a civilizedact !!


By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)[/size]
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well stated... I often carry a gun when fishing as well. I usually have a gun on board my boat. Not necessarily because i want to be left alone but more so in case an situation or opportunity should arise that would require a firearm. Usually more so during hunting season. usually only have on on my hip when night fishing remote lakes
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I always have my pistol handy. I have found that on the river in the summer is a potentially dangerous place. Cell phone reception is questionable at best. Carrying one for protection is smart in my opinion. Ron
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Its just another tool to keep you safe on your adventures, At least that's how i look at it. I have always thought it was better to have and not need than to need and and not have after all you have 4 good tires on your truck why would you need a spare []
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I have always looked at it like I never want to have to say I wish I would have had my gun. Ron
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Isnt that too simple ? [laugh]
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I have no problem with anyone carrying a gun fishing. I don't as I go fishing to escape civilization. Not sure if you got that statement reportedly from Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret) off of recurrent Poacher Ted's website or not. In any case I'd suggest not passing on plagiarism. Doesn't change the statement but Marko Kloos is the author of the statement. I'd suggested crediting the proper author. I'd also suggest never trust anything out of the mouth of a recurrent poacher.
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I pack. I do feel it is everyone's right. BUT, I think ANYONE carrying a gun or rifle, take the gun safety class AND practice occasionally. KNOW YOU GUN. I know from a safety class, that a gun used for home protection should be loaded light. Reason, what if you miss.
I don't think you should have a gun on you till you know how it kicks and how to shoot, nor should you have a gun on you if you have been drinking. Also I don't think you should have a gun just to show you are tough.
It is for self protection and that is all. The more you learn, the better you can do this.

I went fishing Wed and the partner I was with reached in my sling for gloves. He found my holstered 357, and looked at me with surprise, but then said he totally understood.

This day and age, I will not go down without a fight, but I do hit the gun range.
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Never heard of Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret), Poacher Ted, Marko Kloos, Mr Murdock, or Judge Derek P. Pullan.

To be frank, I don't really care who said it. I just know I would have had a hard time saying it so well.
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I think you should be able to carry a gun at all times, especially outdoors. I can't due to poor choices, but this too shall pass. In the Idaho Basshunter bylaws we are not allowed to have guns onboard the boat during a tournament, evidently someone pulled a weapon at a fishing spot, can you believe that crap. lmfao
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The only good gun control , Is hitting what your aimimg at . Curt G.
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Sorry recurrent Poacher Ted's real name is Theodore [laugh]. He's a former rock artist that was banned from hunting in 34 States including Idaho for poaching. He then went to Alaska and was caught poaching a bear last year. His website posted that statement and maybe his book had it as well. Anyway it drew some attention because he plagiarized by not giving credit to the real author. Mr. Murdoch was an early Utah pioneer and explorer and has Murdoch basin named after him. I believe his testimony was used in shaping Utah water law. Judge Pullan is an Utah Judge that declared the seizure of Utah's public waterways by the state legislature as unconstitutional act last year. Nuff of a history lesson I assume.
While this is just a fishing website when you attribute something to an author there is an obligation to make sure it's correct. It's not a legal requirement unless it's copyrighted material I believe.
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I am a supporter of everyone who can legally carry a firearm to do so, the issue I have is have any of you ever killed someone? Seen someone killed by gunfire or made the conscious decision that given the circumstance you could actually use your firearm to defend yours or someone else's life? I see it all the time where just because someone has a gun they think a bad guy is going to turn tail and run.

Bad guys are predators and if you pull a gun on someone you had better be ready to use it or you are DEAD, a bad guy is going to kill YOU because you have pulled a gun on them, they will not hesitate and they will not flee if they are armed, they will KILL YOU because you're a threat to them and stand in their way.

So I suggest before all the chest thumping about carrying a gun, you look deep inside and find out if you can actually kill someone. Just a thought, be safe.
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Do we really want to get into a gun debate? And, please remember this is a fishing forum. I am not going to lock this unless I get complaints, but can't we just let this thread die a quick, natural death? Thanks, Mike
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Hindsight is 50/50. I think if scared enough for you life, one will shoot, then suffer the after effects. Sad thing is, this same emotion can come from extreme hate as well.
This is why I say "CLASSES". I can tell you, they do make sense and put many issues in a different light.
I do agree, if you pull you firearm you best have intentions to use it.

I think had even one teacher or by stander in any of these terrible attacks had had any kind of gun training and carried, the numbers might not have been so high.

But I am sure this post is about "Fishing". I will say, I feel more secure when out fishing by myself. More with intentions of bad animals like snakes, etc.
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Generally I don't carry a gun while fishing, but there are times when I do. Everyone has to make their own determination as to whether they should or not, taking into account where they will be, the type of persons or animals they are likely to encounter, and if they have the proper experience and training with their firearm. But as it was said if you carry it you should be mentally prepared to use that weapon to it's full extent and not expect it to automatically deter a person or predator from doing you or others harm.
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All I wanted to do was to get people to stop complaining about how cold it has been...........[frown][angelic]
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I always carry some heat. It all started after I was on a Lake in Western Wy and did not carry at that time and that day 4 black wolves came within 200 feet of me. I dumped everything out of my jet sled and started pounding on it to make noise and that scared them away. I spent the next 20 minutes cleaning out my pants after they headed up the lake. So now I always carry.
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I have the right to carry, but seldom do. I usually have a gun in the truck. IF I'm going to be a bit more remote in my fishing adventures or think I'll have the opportunity to do some plinking, I'll put the pistol in my pocket.

In general though, I try to not put myself in locations, situations that would demand I be armed.

Regardless though, if I am carrying, I never, ever let that be known. Just not something you broadcast.

Bob
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Remo, I appreciate your concern that we might not be able to take care of business if the need should come. Like I said before when calling 911 is not an option or when cops are minutes away and your in a bad spot now. People will do what they have to do. People use firearms to protect them self's and their family's every day but the media will not report that. About a year ago a young mother was home alone with her new baby. He huusband had died and that is when the bad guys came to steal drugs and what ever else they could get. WHat they got was a 12 gauge to the chest.

Yes people protect them self's and They do it legally and with out chest thumping. Am I ready to take a life? if I am pushed to yes I would. But that is not chest thumping I teach hunters ed, I train with my guns and I know my loads. I don't wish to ever do anyone harm but I won't allow something bad to happen to my family or my self. Yes bad guys are predators but that doesn't mean we have to be the prey. Some people would say I don't want to go any place that I felt so afraid that I needed a gun.

I am not the kind of guy that will sit behind locked doors afraid of going outside. I will not hope for mercy from the predators. I will not stand by as they do as they wish.
If you don't or can't carry a gun that is your prerogative. Good luck. Ron
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