Fishing Forum

simple question why not maybe yube wouldnt be such a boom and crash lake
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[#0000FF]White bass need a lot of forage...minnows or the fry of their own and other species. As long as the carp are in Yuba as thick as they are the whities wouldn't have a chance. Also, they need running water or wave washed rocky shoreline for successful spawning. The shallow, slow mud-bottomed Sevier River isn't prime and there is very little suitable shoreline.

White bass are like perch. They just lay their eggs and leave. The carp slurp up the unprotected eggs and quickly finish off any fry that may hatch. The carp in Yuba are piscivorous...they eat other fish. They have to in order to survive.

The only other species in Yuba that survives well, besides carp, are the ones that make nests and protect their eggs and young. Mainly pike and recently smallmouth bass.

Around the country the best white bass lakes are ones that have great populations of threadfin shad and other forage species.
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Isn't Yuba an awesome pike fishery right now?



I can't figure out why people want it changed. Of course, if it were changed somehow, and the perch or walleye started to do really good, then people would be complaining that we have no pike fisheries...


I know that there have been numerous meetings and discussions regarding Yuba recently. So, what's the verdict? How come people don't like the current pike fishery??
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well for how it used to be i can see why people want it back to the old jumbo perch and eye days. but i think if people went down there and experienced first hand how fun pike are then they might think a little different. it would be nice to get the old perch ways back but i think too many carp put a damper on that. still plenty of good perchin in utah just not the jumbos like yuba had. If the pike go there then there really isnt a great pike fishery left, ya you can pick some up in other places but the consistentcy is for sure at Yuba from the last year of people posting there catches.
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I really like Yuba just the way it is. Northern Pike are a blast to target and there are some real monsters in there.

I think the problem is most the caretakers down there do not believe the current state is sustainable and the pike fishery may rapidly decline.

My plan is to enjoy it as much as I can while it lasts.
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thats it right there the food for the pike is about gone.
yuba is headed for the bust side of things agian its not a matter of not being happy with it the way it is but just what can be done to make it not a boom or bust lake.
look at the past ten or so years was great for trout then the eye's was good then perch now northerns but whats next just carp ????
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Untill you can get a conservation pool established on Yuba for the winter months there is little reason to invest any money to improve the fishery there.

If the power plant decides to suck Yuba dry there is nothing that any of us can do to stop them and any fish that would have been planted there would be gone.

Enjoy it for what it is and pray for good water years so that we can enjoy it for years to come.
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[cool][#0000FF]Those pike dine well on carp. They have plenty of food of all sizes. Most of the ones I have heard of being filleted have carp in their innards.
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Anglers are rarely happy. That's too bad, because Yuba is a fantastic fishery right now, and everyone wants to change it.

keep it as a pike fishery. If there was ever a predator that could thrive with the rough fish of Yuba, it's pike. If they can possibly overpopulate and "bust", then let them!


The water issue is an issue that isn't going to go away -- so why continue to beat a dead horse and think that Yuba can ever be a perch/walleye fishery??
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The division has actually thought of this. I talked to an officer down thre last week about this and they are actually lookin into putting them in there or something else. There is white bass down stream from yuba in the next lake.
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[#0000FF]Doesn't happen often but I'm witchoo on this one. Without pike in Yuba there is no reason to fish it, unless you are deeply into carpology. We don't have to like it, but we should. Who knows how long the current ecological matrix will exist? Why not take full advantage of the unique opportunity to catch both size and numbers of a top predator not found in every other water in the state?

I'm one of the old-timers who fondly remembers some of the glory days...with lots of big perch and an abundance of walleyes. But I also remember busts of the past and anticipate there will be more in the future. The omnipotent water users have the ultimate say in water levels and that has been the chief cause of past fluctuations in fish populations as well. Any year that water stays in the lake is a good year.

I sometimes don't know whether to laugh or cry at some of the ideas and suggestions for managing or restructuring the fisheries in Utah. Too many anglers have the attitude of "Let's dump some of these or those in there and see what happens."
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I'm going to make in inquiry about the white bass idea -- I'm sure it's been brought up. But, an idea is one thing. A valid idea, or plan, is a whole 'nother thing.

Keep in mind, introducing a "new" species to Yuba will be a challenge, considering native species in the Sevier downstream. Even if those "new" species are already in another reservoir even further downstream. I'd be very surprised if white bass are ever introduced to Yuba for this reason.
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Isnt that what the fish and game have done. "Lets try this fish or that fish" Every species of fish is a guess in every water. Some are just a guess and others are an educated guess. A lot of the fish are not native in the state, so they took an educated guess some where in the process. There used to be trout in yuba, that the state put in there, good luck catching one of those. I guess they made a bad move planting trout in there? Waste of time and money on that one? So putting trout in there.........was it a guess, and educated guess, or waste of money. I will let the so called biologist on this site answer this question. I know the real answer and its none of the above. I just find it funny that most people are agains new fish in waters, even if the state is looking at doing it. One sentence, the state biologists know what there doing, and the next they dont.

Tell me why the white bass wouldnt do well in yuba, but they thrive in utah lake? You guys said the carp would be a problem? That they need rocks and gravel not mud. Do you not fish utah lake? All mud, lots of carp, no wave crashed shorelines, yuba has all of the structure that they need. The only thing it doesnt have is a rock bed river flowing into it like the provo river.

I have seen the booms and busts of yuba also, and I think they could do more to help the fishing down there then what they currently do now. I am not saying that the white bass would be the best answer to the lake, but at least look into it and not turn your nose up to the idea before you even give it any thought.
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[quote Darkcloud]There used to be trout in yuba, that the state put in there, good luck catching one of those. I guess they made a bad move planting trout in there? Waste of time and money on that one? So putting trout in there.........was it a guess, and educated guess, or waste of money. I will let the so called biologist on this site answer this question. I know the real answer and its none of the above.[/quote]

The answer is that trout were stocked immediately after the lake refilled, and prior to any rough fish establishing. The biologists knew exactly what would happen -- high growth rates for the first few years, which would result in an awesome trout fishery for a couple years until the rough fish established and out-competed the trout. After a few years, the DWR stopped planting trout. They did a GOOD thing, and provided a great fishery until carp, perch, etc. established and removed the viability of a trout fishery.


[quote Darkcloud]
Tell me why the white bass wouldnt do well in yuba, but they thrive in utah lake? You guys said the carp would be a problem? That they need rocks and gravel not mud. Do you not fish utah lake? All mud, lots of carp, no wave crashed shorelines, yuba has all of the structure that they need. The only thing it doesnt have is a rock bed river flowing into it like the provo river.
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Tubedud may have said they wouldn't do well -- but I didn't. They very well may do just fine in Yuba. But, you failed to consider that even if the State biologists wanted to plant white bass in Yuba, the Feds may not allow it due to native species concerns. So, while they might be a good idea, it might not matter because that good idea may not be allowed.

This happens all the time -- look at Quail Creek and Sand Hollow -- the State isn't allowed to stock catfish or small mouth bass due to native species -- even while they are allowed to stock largemouth bass and bluegill. Further, consider why the State has never been allowed to stock something like rainbow smelt (Osmerus mordax) in Lake Powell to offer the stripers (and other predators) a forage fish that lives in deeper water where stripers struggle to find food in the summer months?

It's not always about finding a fish that will "benefit" a fishery, unfortunately. Sometimes you have to play by the rules and consider native species.

So, while it might make sense, it still may not be allowed.

(you'd probably be better off asking for wipers, a sterile hybrid -- the problem there would be the ability to raise and stock enough to make a difference)
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Trout weren't expected to reproduce in Yuba. They were put there to give anglers something to catch while the perch tried to reproduce. There are very few trout fisheries that would still hold numbers of trout with no plantings for 6 or 7 years. Otter Creek Reservoir and Piute Reservoirs grow some impressive trout. They are impoundments of the same river as Yuba. And the trout that were in Yuba were quite a draw while they lasted. One of our own members has a profile picture of a very nice looking trout that was caught at Yuba. Once the Northern Pike took hold it would be futile to plant any more though.

Quote:I am not saying that the white bass would be the best answer to the lake, but at least look into it and not turn your nose up to the idea before you even give it any thought.

What makes you think that there hasn't been a ton of thought go into this?
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[cool][#0000FF]As PBH stated, the trout were planted to provide a fishery when the lake refilled...after being completely drained. It was full of unmolested fathead minnows and the rainbows grew big and fat...until the also newly planted perch took off and cleaned up the fathead minnows. Then the big trout disappeared and there was nothing bigger than about 16 inches...and they were skinny because the lake is just not fertile.

The smaller trout were just right for the newly emerging pike explosion and many of the trout caught by anglers had holes in them...if they were lucky enough to escape. That, combined with the wholesale glut on newly planted trout fingerlings made the trout difficult to plant and maintain in the predator-rich lake. Here's a picture of a perch I caught at that time with a 4" trout sticking out of its mouth.

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Since about the third year of trout being planted in Yuba there have been few caught. Last I saw was one caught through the ice 3 years ago.

White bass would definitely survive in Yuba. They are tough and there would be some that made it through the toothy chain. But, as I suggested, there is a food chain thing that would not allow them to multiply heavily or grow as large as in more fertile southern waters. In Utah Lake there are several species of native minnows as well as lots of small fry from perch, crappies, bluegill and their own species...now that they are established. Like perch, they eat their young and rely on them as a big part of their menu. In Yuba they would initially have to rely almost entirely on carp fry. And the carp grow very quickly and are small enough for white bass to eat for only a couple of months each year. That is a long time without reliable food.

If you gain access to the records of past DWR fish plantings it would seem that in past years they really did have a chuck and chance it approach. But with the current staff of trained biologists they are a bit more cautious in how they go about introducing new species. Their biggest challenge these days is trying to figure out how to manage the fisheries with all of the bucket bozo illegal introductions.
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At least I got the right answer about the trout. I am used to other sites that nobody knows any facts, they just think they know everything. Most of the trout died off a few years ago due to the HOT water, not the pike eating them all, thats what the biologist have told me.

What makes me think that there was not much thought in this, is the fact that most of you dont seem for the idea. That it is already a bust and can and wont happen. The problem with the wiper idea is that they dont reproduce like white bass. I dont think the lake needs another predator eating all the bait fish, it needs another fish to create some food for the pike, walleye, and bass. Plus with haveing more food for the other fish, it would create some fishing opportunity for the kids. White bass are an easy target for kids to have fun. I love to fish for the northerns, but my kids get bored real fast. It would give them something to catch a little easier, and create a food source at the same time. The perch are a better eating fish but I dont see perch do well in warm water lakes. Most perch lakes have colder water for longer periods in the year.

The planting of white bass cant be much different then when they planted perch in the lake, not to metion the northerns. How can they get by with putting in northerns in redmond and yuba, but the white bass would be a problem with the native fish? Northerns will clean out the native fish 1000 times faster then the white bass will. Carp are not what the northerns prefere to eat, but they will eat anything that moves.
I know that they would compete for food with some of the native fish, but what native fish is it going to affect the most?

What other options do you guys suggest? Just let it go and run its course? But all other lakes get better management? If we could increase the fishing pressure on yuba it would take some off of other lakes, other then the die hard trout fishermen. I would just like to see some better management on the lake for the fish.

Lets hear some thoughts.
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Even the forage fish have to be able to eat something. Utah lake has a far larger variety of small fish than Yuba does and yet on poor spawn years the white bass get pretty skinny. With low water years, poor forage for much of the year I doubt white bass would survive to get plentiful enough for the easy catching you are talking about. Yuba can and is frequently drawn down to mud puddle status. This hurts all species except the carp. The northerns will eat some much larger fish than many of the smaller prey fish. A big Northern can eat a fairly large carp. I dont know much about the preferred diet of Northerns but I am pretty sure that they can and will eat most any fish they can get their mouth around. There is also the gray area of impact on so called native species that PBH brought up. I cant coment one way or the other on that issue but there are a lot of factors to be considered before we introduce a new fish to Yuba or any other lake.
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[quote Darkcloud]I am used to other sites that nobody knows any facts, they just think they know everything. [/quote]

21 posts into your BFT career, and you're comparing some of us to "other sites" where we just think we know?

Don't give us too much credit. You'll find out we're all just a bunch of "know-it-alls" with our own personal agendas anway...

[quote Darkcloud]Most of the trout died off a few years ago due to the HOT water, not the pike eating them all, thats what the biologist have told me. [/quote]

Listen to the biologists better next time. Hear what they say, not what you want to hear. HOT water didn't kill the trout. Utah has a lot of low elevation shallow impoundments (Minersville?) that have fantastic trout populations. Yuba's trout population went down the tube because the DWR discontinued the program (ie: stocking) because it wasn't a long-term solution. It was a short-term solution to provide a temporary fishery until other species (perch, walleye, pike) re-established themselves.

[quote Darkcloud]
The planting of white bass cant be much different then when they planted perch in the lake, not to metion the northerns. How can they get by with putting in northerns in redmond and yuba, but the white bass would be a problem with the native fish? [/quote]

Yuba: The perch were already there, and approval was granted to stock additional perch to "boost" their population and get them established prior to the walleye or pike population establishing. As for pike -- they weren't stocked. They were already in the Sevier River system above Yuba -- they came back on their own -- thus the supplemental perch stocking to boost their populations.

Redmond -- It's "off chanel" from the Sevier. The Sevier doesn't flow through that reservoir, and thus getting permission to stock other species in it isn't as challenging as Yuba might be.


[quote Darkcloud]
What other options do you guys suggest? Just let it go and run its course? But all other lakes get better management? If we could increase the fishing pressure on yuba it would take some off of other lakes, other then the die hard trout fishermen. I would just like to see some better management on the lake for the fish.

Lets hear some thoughts.[/quote]

Other options?
1. How many northern pike fisheries does Utah have? Yuba is GREAT right now!

Until fisheries managers have some control over Yuba, it is always going to be a struggle for managers. If pike can prove to help alleviate the management, and they prove to be a more "stable" population than walleye or perch, then why change anything at all?

Adding additional predators - no matter how you look at them, white bass are predators - is not a solution. It actually compounds the problem.


I have not ever been a Yuba fan. I've never been interested in walleye and perch. However, with the latest turn of events -- the pike "out-racing" the walleye for control -- I'm much, much, much more interested in fishing at Yuba. Ironically, we've been talking and making some tentative plans to fish Yuba this spring/summer. That never would have happened with a walleye/perch fishery. It's the pike that have made Yuba interesting again. (just my opinion)
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"I would just like to see some better management on the lake for the fish."

[cool][#0000FF]I think all anglers...especially Yuba fans...would like to see some differences. But with no minimum pool and wildly fluctuating water levels they are faced with trying to manage the unmanageable.

And for the record, pike were never planted in Yuba. They made their way downstream when Redmond or some other pond upstream overflowed from a major storm. Not sure where the original plants in Redmond came from but they have been in there for a long time.

The water in Yuba does not get any "hotter" than many Utah trout lakes. There have been trout in Yuba and the river below for decades. Back in the 70's it was like steelhead fishing below the dam, when you could still fish there. Big trout and lots of them. And before the perch, carp and pike took over on this last go-round the trout flourished...even in the summer...and they grew big and fat...without the anchor worms like East Canyon trout get. Some lived several years and got pretty large.

Here's a pic from November 2005. I caught over 30 that day that were all big and healthy. That plastic lid is 24" wide. All the fish in the pic were over 4# with the biggest close to 6#. Several were caught that fall that were near 8#. The biggest we caught the next year were skinny 16 inchers...with empty stomachs. That was after the perch had wiped out the formerly huge schools of fathead minnows that the trout rolled on like tuna on sardines.

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