Fishing Forum

[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]There seems to be a lot of controversy and discussion these days about catching and releasing yellow perch while ice fishing. Some of the discussions contain myths as well as facts. Being an inquisitive sort of guy, I thought I would go on a search for some factual reports on the matter and found the following information. I thought maybe you might find it interesting as well.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Fact #1: yellow perch are a physoclistous fish that have closed swim bladders with no connecting duct between their swim bladder and alimentary tract. Deflation is accomplished by diffusion of gas via a network of capillaries. As a result, these species are unable to release air quickly.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Fact #2: rapid removal of fish from deep water to the surface by traditional angling techniques does not allow an ample time for depressurization. Effects of depressurization can include over-inflation of the swim bladder, inability to submerge when released, abnormal or erratic swimming behavior, protruding eyes, gas embolisms (blood vessels, gills, skin and brain), protrusion of internal organs through the mouth, Internal and/or external hemorrhaging, cloacal protrusions, and death.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Fact #3: Catching and releasing yellow perch caught in deep water does NOT result in 100% mortality. There was a study conducted by S. J. Kerr, Fisheries Section, Fish and Wildlife Branch, Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources, Peterborough, Ontario, in November, 2001 that shows that yellow perch caught in 10 m (32.8 ft) to 15 m (49.2 ft) of water depth have a mortality rate of 0 to 64% with a mean rate of 20%.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Fact #4: a procedure known as "fizzing" has been developed in an attempt to artificially deflate gas from a distended swim bladder. The procedure involves puncturing the swim bladder through the musculature of the fish with a sharp instrument such as a hypodermic syringe. Despite the relatively widespread use of this technique, particularly at competitive fishing events, there is considerable controversy about the relative merits of this procedure. Numerous North American jurisdictions either prohibit or discourage the practice.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]So where do these 4 facts leave us? Well, I for one am in no position of authority to dictate to anyone what to do with these facts. I can tell you what I do with them and you are free to make your own decisions about the matter.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I have never used the ‘fizzing’ technique nor do I intend to start doing so now. I do, however, release all fish under my self imposed length limit of 7 inches regardless of how deep I’m fishing for them. From personal experience I know that about 90% of them are able to swim back to the bottom. Those that cannot, even with prompting, are then added to the take for the day. I’m sure that some of the fish that do swim back to the bottom are not going to survive; after all, the mean average mortality for these fish is 20%. I personally do not have a problem with that figure and will continue to release any fish less than 7 inches. Does that make me a mean spirited killer of yellow perch? Not in my eyes, but you may see it differently. And I can live with that also.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Hopefully, I’ve given you enough facts so that you can make an informed decision about what to do with the yellow perch you catch in deeper waters while ice fishing. I’ll make NO judgments about your decision one way or the other. I’m not sure just exactly how long it’s going to last under the present administration, but as of today, we are still free to make our own decisions about matters of this nature.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Life is good my friends; and if you want to make it even better, teach a child how to fish.[/#800000][/font]
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Bob, it's really very simple: NOT releasing them results in a 100% mortality.

The Defense rests.
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dubob u got alot of time on yer hands and yes u can drive atv all over lost creek.but thanks for caring[cool][cool][cool][cool]
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[cool][#0000FF]If the air bladder is protruding from the mouth, you can simply poke a pinhole in it with the point of the hook and the perch will dive back down to the bottom. That tissue heals quickly and the perch has a good shot at survival.

In the first days of perch fishing on Deer Creek in the early 80's I was with a group of guys...including a DWR rep. He okayed a fin clip to mark any fish we poke fizzed to see if we caught any of them on subsequent trips. Amazingly, we actually recaught several of them on the same trip and more on subsequent trips to the same spot.

100% survival? I doubt it. But better than floating under the ice.

A couple of years ago I saw info on using a hook and sinker setup for sending bloated fish back down to the depths so they could repressurize. I fashioned my own "perch savers" as in the pic attached. I have verified on sonar that fish taken back down to deeper water and then pulled free will almost always return to the bottom. Even works on wimpy small crappies.


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I've done a little non-scientific research of my own on this subject. I tried bringing the perch up very slowly to try to determine how they adjust to the change in depth. It seemed to be possible to lessen the chance of the various internal organs expanding to fatal proportion, but the pace of the retrieve had to be painfully slow. I have also tried to determine the size of the perch once the hook is set. At Starvation this winter the average size of the perch results in about 90% of them being large enough to fillet. I use the smaller perch for chowder or coconut perch.
If I feel that a smaller perch is on my line, I slow the trip to the surface and then examine the fish. If the bladder is not expanded to close the throat area, I release the perch and use my ice scooper to get the fish on it's way back to the bottom. I have often been able to watch the fish's progress back to deeper water on my Showdown. I believe once the fish is down 10 to 15 feet, the pressure begins to lessen the stress on the fish and they can often survive. Again, I don't have any hard facts to back up my experiences but I believe it is possible to release a perch taken in deeper water.
I don't believe most fishermen would be inclined to take the time necessary to give the smaller perch the best chance at survival. At least at Starvation this winter there are not alot of very small perch showing up in my harvest. Even the smallest ones can be used for chowder or cut up for bait on the next trip.

Another thing to remember is that perch are very prolific and fishing pressure alone is seldom a limiting factor. Fishing mortality, consistent with the liberal bag limits are considered when regulations are established.

Bottom line, keep the small ones if you don't think it will survive. Leaving them scattered around on the ice for the birds and coyotes is not an appropriate use of the resources.....even though Wiley Coyote and Eddie Eagle may disagree.

Mike
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They're perch, and overpopulated, so what does it matter?

I can't imagine that it does them any good. How hard would you have to squeeze them to get their eyes to bulge out, and their swim bladder to protrude from their mouth? They are getting that same amount of pressure, only from the inside when they're being caught from depths. It's gotta have an effect on their heart and other organs as well.
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[quote BigBuck3333]dubob u got alot of time on yer hands [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000](yep, retirement gives you that)[/#800000][/font] []

and yes u can drive atv all over lost creek. [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000](You may be correct on that one, but the official jury is still out. The BoR is studying this issue as I write this and will let me know when they reach a FINAL decision on thier policy and how it will effect thier contracted managers within the state. But for the time being, according to what WiperMack posted, you are correct)[/#800000][/font]. []

but thanks for caring[cool][cool][cool][cool] [font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000](You're welcome - I guess) [:/][/#800000][/font][/quote][font "Times New Roman"][size 3][/size][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]Hey,enquiring minds want to know this stuff. [][/#800000][/font]
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Interesting topic for sure, one that seems to resurface every so often.

I personally would NEVER puncture the air bladder. Something just tells me they are better off with the air bladder in-tact than with a hole in it. Some guys seem to think they have a better chance if they pop the bladder or puncture it - I'm definitely not one of them.

Another thing that often comes up is that "You should just keep all of them from deep water so they are not wasted". I disagree with that sentiment too. Some people seem to think that the fish is "wasted" if it is not consumed by an angler. There are plenty of bigger fish that will slurp up dead perch, as well as crawdads and micro-organisms. It's not a waste to me if the fish dies and is not consumed by an angler.

With that said, I always treat every fish with the utmost respect and try to give them a fighting chance at surviving after they encounter me.
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[quote RockyRaab]Bob, it's really very simple: NOT releasing them results in a 100% mortality.

The Defense rests.[/quote]

Pretty good point there.
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[url "http://www.lakersaver.com"]www.lakersaver.com[/url]
This one is a bit overkill for perch, but a smaller version would work just fine. This one has 4 pounds of weight, for perch one pound would be sufficient. In smaller sizes, its easy to make your own like Tubedude did, or you can fashion one from a coat hanger and a weight, like some of us did before the LakerSaver.
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I will fizz perch that are too small to fillet and I do agree with TD that the survival is fairly good if the water depth is reasonable. I was fishing in 28-30 ft of water last week and catching a large number of very small, unfilletable perch. I would fizz them if needed and could watch them swim back down on my finder quite rapidly. I am confident that most did fine. As has been stated, if a few were lost, from a fishery perspective, it is not a problem.


There is one more consideration if you are yanking perch or other similar fish up from about 50-55+ feet. Besides the airbladder problem, if you look closely, you will often see what appears to be what we call in mammals/humans "petechiation". This is small streaking of blood in the skin, mouth and eyes. This is from tissue trauma from the rapid decompression of being brought up quickly and is unrelated to the airbladder. Fizzing does not help this problem and my opinion is that these fish do have a high mortality whether they are fizzed or not. You have to really look for this, but if you see it, they may not survive. I see this in perch I catch that are pulled up at 50+ feet. I have not seen this on deep caught trout.
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I have heard a lot of guys who fizz say the same thing: That if they swim back to the bottom then they must be alright.

I'm not sure if that is true or not. Just because they make it back down to the bottom, does not mean they will survive. As was mentioned.

In any case, the good news is that there is no law (yet) mandating we do one thing or another - so it is entirely up to the angler to do what they see best fit. To each their own.

What I did find interesting this year, was that I was catching perch in roughly 20-24 feet of water and some of them (especially the bigger perch) had inflated air bladders when I brought them up. I did not know problems could exist in that shallow of water.
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[quote RockyRaab]Bob, it's really very simple: NOT releasing them results in a 100% mortality.

The Defense rests.[/quote]

I love this guy.

I hate trying to fillet little guys (and big guys, for that matter), so for the most part, I release any/all. Better to give them a chance, and if they die, at least the lake can use the resource -- if I take them home, I've butchered many 'a fillet that ended up just going in the trash.
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Deep sea fisherman have had this problem for years when fishing deep structure off shore. Valuable fish like snapper and croaker were dying because small fish were not be released properly. You are now required to have a kit with instructions on how to properly fizz a fish on board.

TD's perch release is the cat's meow for doing this. I have even used it on Powell for deep caught LMB and SMB that have prolbems.

If you want to use some of those smaller perch that don't lend themselves to filleting, that 10 second cleaning method would be perfect for those 7-10 inch perch.

Realeasing perch ? That brings up an interesting argument! I am not one to get into a debat that doesn't go any where, but I have always heard if you bring any fish up from the bottom fast that it will kill them. Not at that moment, but in fact you can actually realease them and they look fine. But it eventually kills them.
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You are right..Every thing dies sooner or later..[crazy]
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You got me to thinking??
I know that LMB get the air blather thing, but I have that I can remember not seen small mouth bass do that...
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ive got smallies in 20 plus feet and 40 plus feet ice fishin and there bladders come out too.
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 2]This condition is found among the ‘higher’ bony fish of the Order: Perciformes. Both largemouth and smallmouth bass belong to this Order (as do walleye and perch) so one could probably safely assume that they both are physoclistous fish. However, the bladder inflation will vary between different species and may account for why you have seen it in largemouth bass but not in smallmouth bass.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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I catch sm bass in all ranges the deepest was at 86 feet to the bottom and I was on the bottom and no air bladder or bloating, and it swam away when released...

And in all the bass tournaments I have fish and been at only LM bass and spotted bass had to be fizzed not any of the SM bass..

And most bass fisherman I have talked to none have had to fizz a sm bass..

But I have tried to look it up but have not found anything as to yes or no on this..
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