Looks like that's what I did. Gotta say this, I sincerely hope that some nutcase doesn't use a legally purchased gun to harm any of the loved ones of those narrow minded frothing mouthed individuals that replied so venemously to my post. I'VE STATED BEFORE AND I MEAN IT. THEY WILL TAKE MY GUNS FROM ME ON MY DYING DAY!
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]I didn’t reply to your post because it was already locked down by the time I saw it for the first time. While I would have adamantly opposed your view on the need or desirability for that latest bovine excrement from the current Administration running the asylum in Washington, D.C., I would have done so tactfully and with respect. You are wrong in your thinkingthat it would prevent what happened in Newtown or that it will save ANY children (or adults for that matter) in the future. It will ONLY impact lawful and responsible gunowners who already obey the thousands upon thousands of gun laws that we already have in place in this country.[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]And for you to think that the proposed legislation did NOT have a registration provision clearly shows that you have not read the proposed legislation and have not analyzed its full content. Again, with all due respect, you need to do your homework and research before attempting to inform others as to the foolishness of defeating this ill conceived, piece of crap legislation.[/#800000][/font]
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A+ dubob!
Just one more note... Geezer, look up Australia's gun laws and how it all started.
As far as Newtown. Bulletproof glass on the doors & double entry door system would have saved them all. He would have been trapped in between the doors until police arrived. IMO
His mother still would have been shot, RIP.
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Wrong on registration, dubob.http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/apr/16/Arizona-Citizens-Defense-League/gun-rights-group-says-senate-bill-proposes-univers/
You did jump into a hornets nest Geezer,here at BFT, but some myths need to be aired out.
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Ok so your not going to be happy unless theres a background check done on everybody who wants to own a gun, Right.
Then I suggest everybody is required to get a concealed weapons permit, (Training and background check included) Then everybodys armed if they want to be....WIN! WIN! Right.
Oh wait that doesnt go well with they're agenda.[
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It's a different society today than the one we grew up in. I submit we have the media to thank for a lot of it what with the glorifying of violence, the nauseating ongoing coverage of every violent act that is perpetrated on more than one or two victims.
If we continue this mindless opposition to efforts to keep guns out of the hands of unstable individuals, more Sandy Hook kinds of incidents WILL HAPPEN. If background checks can prevent even one such incident, who in his right mind can conscionably oppose them? OK, I know background checks would have had no effect on Sandy Hook so please don't go howling about that.
If we don't start somewhere, and soon, some poor innocent(s) will pay the ultimate price for our stupidity.
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HFT please don't bring up facts. The kool aid I drank is now upsetting my stomach[crazy].
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I wasn't gonna chime in Buuut Im glutton for punishment. [pirate]
I see what Geezer is saying tougher laws prevents more guns in circulation. There are currently millions of guns in circulation, America is #1 in private gun ownership, that being said does it make sense to add more guns to the fray to lower gun violence ? No
It makes more guns available to be stolen or Illegally sold
Buuuut.....
On the other hand Criminals don't legally buy guns they steal them or get them off the so called "Street Vendors" or Black Market guys.
Now If Criminal Joe steals or buys a gun from a illegal vendor then this whole background check thing goes down the toilet right ... No crime is deterred, no accountability for the criminal.
I think in retrospect most gun owners feel like there getting the shaft there 2nd amendment right is now being infringed upon and theres more red tape in getting a gun.
But I will say I do agree some what with the Assault weapon ban I dont want to see them completely banned I feel everyday joes shouldnt be walking around with AK47's. Growing up in So Central LA Ive seen what a AK47 can do to a person, home & car.
And from what I hear these AR15 are bigger and badder. I my opinion these guns should require a background check and some restrictions due to the fact they they can wipe out crowds of people in a matter of seconds. Tougher restrictions on these Assault weapons would make tracking and accountability more available.
But that just my two cents if you opinion differs than mine well that what great about this country were all entitled to an opinion and yours is just that yours.
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[quote GEEZER]
If we continue this mindless opposition to efforts to keep guns out of the hands of unstable individuals, more Sandy Hook kinds of incidents WILL HAPPEN. If background checks can prevent even one such incident, who in his right mind can conscionably oppose them? OK, I know background checks would have had no effect on Sandy Hook so please don't go howling about that.
If we don't start somewhere, and soon, some poor innocent(s) will pay the ultimate price for our stupidity.[/quote]
So if we are going to use this kind of reasoning how would you feel about this idea?
With all of the death and destruction from all of the drunk driving (which is far more prevalent than from guns) we should put breathalizer testing equipment in every last vehicle in the nation.
That way every time you want to start your car to go somewhere you would have to blow in it to start your car. Also you have to pay for this equipment and pay to have it installed.
Heck lets be real safe and extend it to everything that has a motor like motorcycles, boats, and fourwheelers.
Just think how safe everybody would be then and since all the people that do these things in a safe way anyway then it won't hurt them to do it right?
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Don't forget texting... Phone's should not work in vehicles.
"At least a drunk is trying to drive.. someone texting oblivious to the world"
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Utah is one of a few states that has more deaths from firearms than all motor vehicles now. In the U.S. as a whole alcohol related motor vehicle deaths were about 10,000 in 2010. Homicides with firearms was about 11,000 in 2010. Accidental gun deaths- frequently children run close to a 1,000 per year.
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Does that data show how many gun deaths were from legal law abiding citizens that legally purchased those firearms, vs criminals that obtained them illegally? Would be interesting to know.
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What is the primary purpose of a firearm? What is the primary purpose of an automobile? What is the primary purpose of a cell phone?
I know that if guns are outlawed, the only ones that'll have them (outside of law enforcement and the military) will be outlaws. I hope that never happens in this country. With the number of guns in peoples hands now, I don't see how it could happen that all the guns could be taken away.
If you've got nothing to hide, why should a background check bother you? If a person wants to sell a gun, legally, how big a deal is it to get a background check done? I don't know but, no matter the headache, if mandatory background checks save even one innocent life, it's worth it in my book.
As for the ganger scum that use guns for their activities, I say we oughta teach them all how to shoot so that when they get in a shootout with each other it'll at least have a desirable outcome.
Drunk drivers and texters should face jail time - every time, no exceptions.
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[quote GEEZER]What is the primary purpose of a firearm? What is the primary purpose of an automobile? What is the primary purpose of a cell phone? [/quote]
None of these devices were made for the purpose of killing innocent people but it is a
fact that they do. But why is it that they want you to do a back ground check every time that you want to buy a gun? I have never been asked to provide a current drivers lisence when I went to buy a car. Hell I don't even have to talk to a live person to get a cell phone.
[quote GEEZER]I know that if guns are outlawed, the only ones that'll have them (outside of law enforcement and the military) will be outlaws. I hope that never happens in this country. With the number of guns in peoples hands now, I don't see how it could happen that all the guns could be taken away.[/quote]
Look back into history at China, Gremany, Bosnia, or several places in Africa just to name a few. A leader and its military can find way to get rid of guns.
[quote GEEZER]If you've got nothing to hide, why should a background check bother you? If a person wants to sell a gun, legally, how big a deal is it to get a background check done? I don't know but, no matter the headache, if mandatory background checks save even one innocent life, it's worth it in my book.[/quote]
Even in a court of law you are supposed to be presumed innocent untill proven guilty. A law like this presumes that you are guilty untill you can your that you are innocent.
I think that education would be a much better avenue to persue in reducing gun violence than just throwing another law on the books so that the govement can use it to control you with.
[quote GEZZER]As for the ganger scum that use guns for their activities, I say we oughta teach them all how to shoot so that when they get in a shootout with each other it'll at least have a desirable outcome.
Drunk drivers and texters should face jail time - every time, no exceptions.[/quote]
I agree with this but the problem is that most of the time they get off with a slap on the wrist.
Back when they started doing background checks they would brag about all of the felons that they kept from getting guns but how many of these people were ever prosecuted for trying to get these guns when it's against the law for them to try and buy one in the first place.
There are already laws to keeps guns away from bad people lets use these laws instead of just making more laws.
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Sorry... "Ted Cruz". No sense in discussing the subject any further.
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[quote HFT]Sorry... "Ted Cruz". No sense in discussing the subject any further.[/quote][size 3]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][size 2]Does the truthfulness of a statement become less truthful when uttered by a person you don’t happen to like? If you don’t care for the words of Senator Cruz maybe you can wrap your head around these quotes. Still just as true today as they were over 200 years ago. It would appear that some of the folks on here and the current Administration have forgotten these words of wisdom.[/size][/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"A free people ought to be armed."
- George Washington[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson [/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson [/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria) [/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." - Thomas Jefferson [/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."
- Thomas Jefferson [/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"Arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense."
- John Adams[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason [/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians."
- George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights) [/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe."
- Noah Webster[/#800000][/font]
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[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000][/#800000][/font]
[font "Comic Sans MS"][#800000]"The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops."
- Noah Webster[/#800000][/font]
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CM23 I have never seen that data but would be interesting. If I had to choose between a law making texting and phone use illegal while driving and one expanding background check I'd take the driving restrictions because it would save a lot more lives. However I'd like to see both. I know criminals will still obtain guns but why make it so easy for them to do so. My post was just correcting made up facts to fit an argument. As mentioned doing away with the huge loophole of firearm purchases without background checks wasn't going to create a firearm registry. I also wish they enforce the laws on the books already.
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dubob,there is a difference between truth and sophestry. Birther Ted Cruz only knows sophestry and you have bought into it.
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The difference between truth and sophistry is simple: If you choose to believe it, it is "truth" and if you choose not to believe it, you proclaim it "sophistry."
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[quote dubob]]IFrom Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), "The Department of Justice has been explicit that when you require background checks for private firearms transactions, the only way to make that effective is through a national gun registry. So if the bill that is pending on the floor of the Senate passed, the next step in the process would be that critics would say, ‘Well this isn’t effective. [/quote]
The Assault Ban bill Obama tried to pass explicitly stated there was no Gun Registry just the opposite.
"Speaking during a “Google Hangout,” Biden reiterated that the proposal would not create or lead to the creation of a federal gun registry. “Nothing can be further from the truth,” he said."
Its was a angle NRA & Gun Lobbyist took to squash the bill.
And no The D party is not looking to take your guns 81% of ALL AMERICANS supported the the assault weapon ban 81 PERCENT !!! in 2012 43% of voters were R so R were backing this bill.
The tragedy is the American people spoke stated this is what they wanted yet Lobbyists and Politicians didn't give a ratz ass what Americans want and squashed the bill.
The scariest part of this is this shows you that Gov & politicians are leveraged by corporations to do there bidding. Regardless of what Americans want corporations continually run AMERICA.
I am a NRA member but do not condone the NRA threatening politicians to run anti campaigns against politicians reelections cause they don't back the policies of the NRA. Not all the senators and congressmen/women have dollars like the NRA and wouldn't stand a chance in getting re-elected so they voted for something they didnt want.
Is that the America you want to live in ? were Corporations leverage politicians into what best for there profits and share holders while the common folk get the shaft ?
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