Went to Jordanelle today to see if I could collect some minnows for future adventures. While I was there decided to re-new my state park pass.
I was going to post the whole story, but have decided not too.
Lets say the young officer at the gate needs some better training. Needs to read and learn the rules. Most importantly he needs to understand that it is not HIS park but the people of Utahs' park.
I did get my senior pass and checked on the minnows. Filed a complaint with DWR and State Parks as neither wanted to except resonibility for this young man.
What a shame I hope his weekend goes better than his week has.
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[#0000FF]Hey, I told you not to wear that turban to cover your bald spot. Not his fault if he took one look at you and started profiling. You look purty sketchy ya know.
I suggest you send an email to Jeff Rasmussen at jeffrasmussen@utah.gov . He is the former manager at Yuba and a good friend to BFT. He is now in Salt Lake in a supervisory capacity and definitely wants to know what we like and don't like.
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You may be right I have been getting a bit more sun than usual haha.
Throw in the scraggy beard and walla you have home grown terrorist.....no wait that is fishfearme not road.
Thanks for the info TD I'll wait and see if what I did made any difference. Would just like to be treated the way I treat you.
Now about those minnows none seen but the wind was escalating to gail force. I'll go back in the AM and see what's up then.
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[#0000FF]Can't offer much encouragement on the chub minnows. About the only chubs left in Jordy are those big ugly chubosauruses like in Starvation. Same thing. Smallies ate 'em all and blamed it on the perch. But if it weren't for perch being in there the smallies would starve out. Too bad there isn't a good crop of crawdads in Jordanelle like in Starvy.
The big chubs spawn every year but the predators clean up the fry before they can get very big. The adults live a long time but will eventually die out.
The same thing is happening at Strawberry but trout are not as efficient as smallies. There are still a few small chubs...but not as many...and the redsides have really gotten scarce. Used to be able to harvest a grundle around the docks but no more.
At least you found some water at Jordanelle. I heard that lake might be cancelled this year. Tough to haul someone on water skis with a 4 wheeler.
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The fish at the Nell are carting water bottles now..
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[#0000FF]They might soon be wearing tennies...or running shoes. They they are really gonna be hard to catch.
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And all for the sake of the june sucker. I wonder how much we will spend trying to save that poor doomed little guy.
If they are truly serious about saving the June Sucker, then they need to remove all these dams they have placed on their habitat.
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[#0000FF]Dam straight.
But not while I am on the water.
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Who you calling a chub mister?
Ya done got me all fired up about cast-netting for minners, and a $100 bux later I'm in the game, then trying to figure out where I can find some that be legal.
After all that practice casting in the yard with the pine cones and kittens, and I up and find a pool veritably swarming with carp minnows. Also come to learn some of the smaller style minners in thar be fatheads. Then come to get my ass chewed for harvesting fatheads, and up-n-accused of using illegal bait fish.
So I ask a few game-warden types while they're checking out my muscles, and seems - they don't know any better than I do. Thumbing through the paper book - I point out I dun done the 'lectronical searches, and guide them to the particular pages of interest.
In time I learn that over time the regs changed. Used to be you couldn't use fatheads, but nows-adays you can. Ping!
But also found myself attacked for "overharvest". So you claim it's the smallies, eh? Poyhaps its the happy harvesters with the broad cast nets that dun done 'em in.
I know - I know. Them fishes are more efficient that we can pretend to be, plus they're always there - we just get to visit. So sounding like the "chub" problem may just tip the scales and take care of it's own self in time.
So riddle me this - WHY are gizzard shad opposed dead or alive? I've seen and shown how clever they can be - if I found em at the base of Cutler dam, that would imply they've worked the whole lover Bear - up from Willard. That's a fair stretch of meandering river there alright. Or some bucket happy angler "shared" them across the borders.
But - if they're dead, they're dead. Why can't they be bait in that condition? Need to reread if that's just pertinent to Willard, or a state-wide, any waters ruling. Maybe I'll ask "the man" on that live-bait thread.
Wonder if they can wander up the dam, and into other waters. How fat can a cat get gulping down hoards of shad one might wonder?
Ha-ha and you can bet everyone who now uses those lakes say the same thing. Can you imagine what the cost would be to the public? Not just removing the dams, but all the recreational lost revenue.
And yet they keep trying. Are there any signs that ole Junie is recovering at all?
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I can appreciate your candor in not dragging out ALL the dirty laundry, but I do wonder if you might shed a little more light - "just the fax man".
I'd be curious to know the nature of the grievance. Does he not recognize a senior when he sees one? They're the guys the sit in the BACK of the sports bus, and give the Frosh-Sophs red bellies and pink necks, no?
I remember a wicked rat-tail welt I laid on a senior swimmer once. And boy was he pissed when I went on to beat his breaststroke time! [:p] His last name was Hyrum, earned the nickname "Buster". I'll say no more.
I know my dad has been very proud of his senior status the last some 20 years. And anywhere he goes, always is the inquiry "is there a senior discount". Badge of honor I see it as. Had a nice visit with my 89 year old neighbor, as he showed me around his woodshop, and his collection of clocks he's into now, along with a myriad of other projects that come and go. If I live that long, I can only hope I'm still able to move, least of all craft to that degree!
Good luck with your challenge.
"Never give up, never surrender" as Buzz put it.
Just the fax .... He was arrogant, pushy, rude, and overbearing. To put so you can understand, this young man was suffering from the "new in blue", John Wayne, syndrome that all police officers go through. Now lets just leave it at that. The exchange we had much uglier as I hate a bully.
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"Are there any signs that ole Junie is recovering at all?"
[#0000FF]Yes...but not much of a return on the dollars spent up to this point. There are more adults returning to the traditional spawning beds in the Provo River and even a few showing up in the renovated lower end of Hobble Creek. Also more young of the year being seen in the lower Provo from natural spawning...without the hatchery fin clips.
I wonder what the cost per bite is for their "walleye feeding program". When the 4-5" Junies are released each year the walleyes put on their sucker bibs and chow down. Almost any walleye caught within range of the Provo inlet has multiple soft rayed Junie-ettes in its tummy.
Guess I'd better not make too much of that or we will have a walleye removal program to go along with the carp program. I've been trying to do my part but DWR frowns on the use of live Junies for bait. Just no pleasin' some folks.
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"But also found myself attacked for "overharvest". So you claim it's the smallies, eh? Poyhaps its the happy harvesters with the broad cast nets that dun done 'em in."
[#0000FF]If you are referring to Jordanelle, it is the same old story with a couple of different twists. As a new lake, with lots of structure and an explosion of chubs, Jordanelle was ideal for bass to proliferate and to grow big too. And they did. But as they do in most waters the bass kept eating chubs, growning bigger and fatter and then passed the "tipping point" at which the chubs could no longer spawn enough young each year to meet the bass demand. Anglers were catching lots of big fat smallies...and also still catching lots of chubs.
Then the chubs thinned out and the survivors began to be bigger and bigger...with almost none under 8 to 9 inches...too big for all but the biggest bass. So then the bass also started preying on the growing population of perch...likely illegally introduced. But they did not grow as big or as fast on perch as they did with chubs...and the sizes of the average and the biggest bass began to drop.
A real blow to the bass population came when there was a big winter dieoff of the perch population...about 5 years ago. Lots of perch through the early winter ice and then WHAM...no perch to be found. Large bass almost disappeared too and the average size dropped way down. Many bassers blamed increased harvest of the large bass by other anglers. Truth is, most anglers ain't got the savvy to even catch the big ones.
Jordanelle was going through the new lake evolution process. Vegetative cover left in the lake was rotting out or being burned during low water periods. That put a hurtin' on the largies...which like cover. And, with no crawdads and fewer perch the smallies got fewer and smaller too.
As previously mentioned, there are virtually no small chubs showing up in Jordanelle any more. The declining spawn from the surviving and fertile big adult chubs is slurped up by smallies and perch...and trout...before they can grow big enough to replace the old spawners.
[/#0000FF]"So riddle me this - WHY are gizzard shad opposed dead or alive?"
[#0000FF]That is a "why" question. Not valid in Utah. Seldom a good answer. There is such a profound fear of introducing shad into non-approved waters that all potential doors have been closed. Another "what if" reasoning process. In fairness, because of the heavy competition shad cause against the survival of the fry of all other species...by filter feeding out all the zooplankton they need...shad are indeed a threat to ecological disaster in most Utah waters.
Wherever they exist, gizzard shad are both at the top and bottom of the food chain. They compete with other species when large...even eating the sac fry and young...but are a major forage species themselves until they grow too large for the predator species to gulp down. And they do get big.
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[quote road]Just the fax .... He was arrogant, pushy, rude, and overbearing. To put so you can understand, this young man was suffering from the "new in blue", John Wayne, syndrome that all police officers go through. Now lets just leave it at that. The exchange we had much uglier as I hate a bully.[/quote]
In your opinion [
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One good thing I would guess that will help jordanelle if it stays low enough is the return of vegetation this year. Spring runoff will only tell.
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