Fishing Forum

Hello to everyone. Been lurking a while from down here in Vegas. I mostly fish Mead/Mohave for Bass both large and small almost on a weekly basis but I find myself wanting to head to Utah for the summer (at least when I can afford it). Usually I only make it a couple trips a year but hoping for more this summer. The last trip up there was late June on [url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/gforum.cgi?post=829344;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;page=unread#unread"]Panguitch and Minersville[/url]. My 12 year old daughter got her first taste of a fly rod and so now I am in for it. lol I grew up in Montana fly fishing/tying flies, etc, etc my entire childhood. Tubes, boats, waders, rivers, lakes, etc. So been there done that type of thing. Joined the Military and never touched a rod for those 20 years. Retired several years back, moved and back to my roots of fishing for a past time.

Anyways... I have been busy in the garage blowing the dust off my old fly tying box from the late 70s and making some flies and I need some recommendations on flies to tie to build up my arsenal. These would be for lakes and generally speaking southern Utah. Kolob, Panguitch, Minersville, Fish Lake, Otter, etc. (would love to hit Strawberry/Starv some day but for Walleyes...)

I have an entire box of buggers in both black and green. Also red yarn leaches (same yarn I got at Henrys Lake back in the early 80s) Those are my primary flies. Simple and work on lakes. Fishing/fly fishing in general has got a whole bunch more complicated these days. Use to be 4-6 flies and that was your entire box way back when. Now days there is a ton of options plus droppers and stuff I am still trying to learn/pick-up on.

Been reading posts and seeing what is mentioned. Looking them up and making them. Plus on the last trip to Bass Pro I grabbed 4 flies that were recommended and made some of them.

Right now I have a box full of various buggers/leaches. Then this new stuff I have been learning/tying. Zebra Midges (more than likely tied on the wrong type of hook), Prince Nympths, olive elk hair Caddis, Renegades, Royal Wulff and Adams Irresistibles.

Anything else I should make a stab at tying?

How about droppers? Nothing I have ever done before. Just read about. Just tie on one of those Zebra Midges I made a foot or so behind my primary fly type of thing?

Kolob is the next trip/lake I have planned right now. Been there several times in the past few years but with spinning rods, etc when my daughter was still learning how to fish.



Thanks and sorry for the long read...

Tom
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I added a Pheasant Tail Nymph and Green Drake to my box today. My flavor/variants. The Drake I made is the coolest looking fly I have ever made. Dunno if it will work or if it really even looks like anything like it is suppose to look like but cool regardless...

Anything else I should make? Or go fish and and have fun []






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Looks like you are collecting a good arsenal. You just may have invented the next new wonderfly. We won't know until you tell us how it fishes.

Good luck!
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sounds to me like you've already got everything you need. Really, those still waters are not ever going to be extremely technical. At Kolob, you'll probably want to start dragging your buggers around. Take an assortment of dries --in the evenings you'll probably go crazy watching the surface activity.
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They were being really hard to get figured out on Kolob. I guess too many people feeding them crack (power bait) this time of the year. Been up there 4 times now and this trip was by far the least productive. Haven't been there in nearly two years so dunno if it is the lake or timing.

Anyways didn't do squat on bugger. The best/most productive was the Royal Wulff. (Glad I learned how to tie that one before this trip.) Also caught some on a Pince Nymph, red Zebra Midge and a red yard leach. By the second day I had it down to running a Prince Nymph with a Royal Wulff for the dropper on my rod and my daughter ran a red yarn leach with a Royal Wulff for the dropper. She had more catches on her dropper and I had more on my main fly.

Here is a video of her catching the only Rainbow of the trip and her second fish ever on her new Clearwater rod.

[url "http://youtu.be/cnuH5kfe8qo"]http://youtu.be/cnuH5kfe8qo[/url]

I made a detailed post about the trip in my home forum (Nevada). Long read... I am long breathed []

[url "http://www.bigfishtackle.com/forum/Nevada_Fishing_Forum_C39/Nevada_Fishing_General_F42/gforum.cgi?post=832320#832320"]http://www.bigfishtackle.com/...i?post=832320#832320[/url]

Anyways... I need some rod/line help from a expert.

I am having issue with my daughters new rod. I don't know if it is the rod (I am not use to it/never used anything lighter than a 5wt) or the line, which I am suspecting.

I/we don't go fly fishing a ton so nothing too high end in our arsenal and when we do it is lake fishing several times a year. She is too light for waders and dealing with rivers/current/rocks under water... Learned that in Montana a few years ago.

My set-up is a 9' 5wt TFO Pro series (a couple years old). I have AS GPX floating line on one spool and AS class 4 line for my sinking. I love both lines. I can cast as far as I would expect and have zero issues.

Her new rod is a 9' 4wt Orvis Clearwater. I have RIO Gold for floating and their class 3 for sinking. I can cast the sinking as far as I would expect but the floating kicked my tail. I just couldn't get distance out of it. Nothing nearly as remote as far as I could with my TFO rod/AS line.

Is it the floating line selection? Is this "normal" for a 4wt rod and looking for reasonable distance on a lake? I am by far not a expert. I dibble and have fun. The line feels too heavy for the rod. At least that is what I think I am feeling when I cast it or the rod is just too soft to hand the line.

Any inputs?
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Nice videos.



I'm not much of a gear-head, but you should be able to cast the floating better than the sinking. I don't know what's up with that.


I do know that Orvis has some decent floating lines on sale right now -- their Wonderline stuff is 40% off of the sale price. You could get a second #4 floating line for $17 and see if the line makes a difference:

http://www.orvis.com/store/product.aspx?pf_id=94GK
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Sometimes a rod casts better with a line that is either 1 above or below its rating. If you have other lines, I would try them. You can also try borrowing a line from someone to try out. My guess would be to try a 5 wt line since the sinking line cast well.

I have a 4wt that works better with a 3wt line, and I have a 5 wt that casts a 6wt line better. I also have a 3wt that likes a 4wt line.
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The RIO 4wt floating felt too heavy for this rod so I would have to go to a RIO 3wt floating or exchange the rod for a 5wt... Not too sure if that is the road I want to go down. I emailed Orvis and explained everything I felt/saw and they recommended that I returned the rod for a 5 or 6wt for lake fishing, etc and that was it, no further recommendations. I am still in the 30 day trial period that Orvis has and can return it. Downside is both lines and the reel I grabbed for this one. The reel is a 3-4wt rated reel and then both lines. Going to be a pain no matter what to make changes... Kinda blows as far as $$ is concerned to change everything up. Going to do something but not sure what at this point. I am thinking change it all up to a 6wt (since I already have a 5wt myself) and I might just exchange this rod for a TFO Pro II verse another Orvis since I am very happy with my older TFO Pro 5wt. Also change the lines up for Scientific Anglers GPX and their type IV sinking since both of those perform very well on my current rod.

This is what I get for changing everything up on another rod to see if the grass is greener... Should of stuck with what I knew worked great...
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I have the TFO pro and one of the older (USA) Clearwater. Both are 5 wt and both a Mid Flex. or medium action.
I also have GOLD for them and I am not a fan in any way. I will agree you have to work at casting it.

GPX is over line. In other words, you buy a 5 wt GPX it is a 6 wt. That is the beauty of GPX. On a 4 wt it will be very noticeable however.

I prefer to cast sinking line as it is a much smaller diameter than floating so no wind resistance. Sink tips however, are like casting a floating line with a bunch of weight on the end.

I do prefer WF line over DT. On a four weight I like a smaller diameter line LIKE Orvis Superfine. Cortland Sylk could be nice as well.
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A 4 wt shouldn't be any harder to cast than a 5 wt with a similar action. Just expect the range to be a bit less. Any estimate how far the line was going on the typical cast? The simplest answer is to just replace your floating line. However if you're going to be fishing mostly bigger lakes you might be better with your plan to upgrade to a 6 wt. Obviously that will be much costlier replacing the reel and both lines. Why did you go with a 4 wt rod in the first place?
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I have no idea on distances. Comparing my 5wt TFO Pro/SA GPX verse the 4wt Clearwater/RIO Gold the distance is considerable. At least 30% less distance if not a pinch more. Sinking lines both cast more or less about the same distance. I get a pinch more out of the TFO but both are really good distances. Happy all around in the sinking department.

I too prefer sinking but we were fishing in a area on Kolob where the depth was less than 7 feet average with vegatation and I really had no choice but to go to floating to keep the hooks out of the grass. Panguitch I use sinking only for the most part.

I went with a 4wt more for the fun factor not considering how it would effect casting distances. Plus more or less the average trout on Kolob/Panguitch is in the 13-17 inch range. The 4wt is also very conservative/forgiving so the thinking there was since my daughter is new to this, etc the lighter action rod will help reduce line breaks/lost fish due to it being such a soft rod and will take in any mistakes better than a stiffer action rod. Plus she is use to Bass fishing and when that girl sets the hook watch out. lol

I should of taken the reel off my 5wt rod and seen how 5wt GPX line ran on this 4wt Clearwater rod. Though It would be one weight above it would of gave me some indications of what I need to change maybe... This rod can cast the 4wt RIO type III I put on it like nothing. Great distance, etc. 4wt RIO Gold was not a happy camper irt this rod.

Decisions, decisions... I am pretty sure I should of just gone with a 6wt in the beginning for her. What I was going to do then I changed my mind at the last minute. Especially considering a lot of our lake fishing is using sinking lines a heavy rod would be better suited.
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You shouldn't lose 30% on a 4 wt vs 5 wt. Try out someone else lines and see what happens. I do have a 9 wt newer clearwater- just an adequate rod. I mainly got it for when I hit fresh trophy size salmon I don't get my butt kicked. Sporadic use seems fine but I don't need to cast any significant distance for that application.
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I went down to Bass Pro in Vegas on Friday. A different guy was working the fly shop than I usually see. I explained my concerns/issues and his biggest thought on all was the line. He said RIO gold should only be used on a fast action rod. I would have to agree. At least I know it doesn't/didn't perform worth a hoot for me on a MF rod. I told him I had everything in the car and asked about my options. I knew the rod could be exchanged and the reel was a BPS reel so easy enough on those two but figured I would have to eat the cost of the sinking/floating line if I wanted to switch up to a different weight set-up. He said grab it all and meet me up front. By the time I got back in the store he did whatever magic with the manager and I was able to return the whole set-up. Rod, reel, spare spool and the lines.

I started all over... It cost me a whole bunch more. lol

I didn't want two rods the same so decided to give my daughter my 5wt TFO Pro which is dialed to me both using SA sinking and floating lines and bought a 6wt TFO Pro II. I thought about a BVK but decided I liked the MF action of the Pro and it is a fun rod. If anything else going to a 6wt will just help me cast better against the wind that is always present on Panguitch. The costly part... I started playing with the reels and before I know it a new Lamson Litespeed 2 was in my hands. Game over. Had to have it. Soooo smooth and light! The spare spool for it is on order since they don't stock it. Sticking with SA lines for these rods (type IV and GPX). Works well on the TFO Pros...

Pretty happy... Actually extremely happy. Love having Bass Pro in town!
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Excellent! Glad you ended up with a setup that you like.
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Sounds like a killer deal and set up. Stillwater, I use 6 more than anything.
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