Fishing Forum

With all the perch taken out last year and more to come this year, how long will it take to start seeing the benefit in size of trout and splake increase? Or will we ever see the size increase?
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Do you really think the perch is stopping them from growing ??
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Forage will be more plentiful with the perch gone, the forage will feed fish that the lake trout prefer over perch and the mackinaw and splake should get larger....over the course of maybe 3-6 years.

I'd be interested to hear your take on it though, bassrods.
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I have no take, I just have never heard or seen any proof of taking any fish that feeds other fish like perch do that helps..
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What Bassrods doesn't understand, though, is that perch are NOT being used as a forage by lake trout or splake. "Although the overall population of lake trout appears to be increasing, the number (or proportion) of small lake trout is increasing at an even faster rate. In 2009, the majority of lake trout captured (77%) were less than 24 inches TL while Chamberlain and Hepworth (2002) reported that 63% of lake trout captured were less than 24 inches TL. A review of all marked lake trout stocked in 1989 and 1991 and recaptured between 1993 and 2010 revealed a split growth curve (Figure 11). The separate or split growth curve represents two different groups of lake trout, one that was able convert to a piscivorous diet and one that was not able to make the conversion to an entirely piscivorous diet. It is apparent that a high percent of lake trout in Fish Lake do not have the resources available to reach sizes exceeding 24 inches TL. Prior to the introduction of yellow perch, Utah chubs were the most dominant food source available for lake trout in Fish Lake (Wright 1942; Hepworth and Duffield 1984). The Utah chubs provided lake trout an intermediate size forage base, easing the transition from invertebrates to fish (Bulkley 1958). Yellow perch now dominate the niche once occupied by Utah chubs; however they do not appear to be available or utilized as forage by lake trout (Chamberlain and Hepworth 2003). Converting to piscivory is difficult for small lake trout when the most available prey choice is a catchable-sized (8-10 inches) rainbow trout."

In order for any noticeable difference to be seen major reductions of yellow perch would have to happen. Truthfully, yellow perch proliferate at such high rates that fishermen will NEVER be able to reduce their numbers at high enough rates to help the lake trout out. Fishermen just can't keep up.

With that being said, though, what may help is the introduction of weevils that feed on the milfoil that the perch use as cover. By reducing the milfoil--and perch habitat--more of them may become available to predation by lake trout. The crazy thing, though, about lake trout diet studies is that lake trout did not use perch at all as a forage...
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[quote bassrods]...I just have never heard or seen any proof of taking any fish that feeds other fish like perch do that helps..[/quote]

That's because you've always refused to read the evidence that has been provided to you!

wormandbobber gave a pretty good summary.
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those perch have wreaked havoc on the food for splake and bows.
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When perch numbers were lower and chub numbers higher, splake were reaching world class status; in fact, splake were caught in gill nets that were approaching the world record. Now, those giant splake are not to be found. Splake over 10 pounds are becoming increasingly rare...why? It is a simple and obvious reason--they do not prey on perch; their primary forage--Utah chubs--are low in number.

The same problem is being seen with lake trout....the number of lake trout able to convert to a piscivorous diet is being hampered by lack of adequate forage; again, they do NOT prey on perch. The primary forage for lake trout is rainbow trout. And, the available rainbow trout are too large for small lake trout...
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I'd be surprised to hear of any body of water where any kind of trout eat perch or any other spiny fish. Trout are just too delicate.
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I've caught rainbows from Starvation with very small perch in their stomachs. On a separate trip I caught even more that had crawfish in their stomach. Several years ago my friend brought home a rainbow he caught at DC through the ice and it was an absolute football...and full of very small perch. I'm not biologist, just a self proclaimed fish nerd. I would imagine that for the most part trout would prefer small aquatic invertebrates and zooplankton until they reach a size where they need bigger forage. Having said that, I've never caught a trout with a larger (> 3 inches in length) perch in it's stomach. Those spines on a perch at that size are most likely a deterrent to a lot of predators.
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Predator/Prey relationships are very delicate. One problem may be that perch occupy a different nich in the ecosystem than the chubs. Perch tend, where available, to occupy the shoreline areas and weedy areas when available. They do go deep, but only if there is a lack of cover. Chubs tend to use weedbeds for spawning, but then move out into the open water for the most part. Laker's and Splake would tend to use the open water zone also, hence the preference for chubs over perch. Perch are also a bit more "thorny" than chubs ( spiny rayed vs soft rayed) so are more difficult to swallow !!!

Seems like the answer is to stock smaller rainbows. And maybe tiger muskie.
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The kokes they planted last year may fill that place on the dinner plate for the lakers, especially since yearling kokanee will go deep enough to be readily available to big lake trout.
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Jordanelle bows and browns quite often have perch in them.
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[quote TT600]Seems like the answer is to stock smaller rainbows. And maybe tiger muskie.[/quote]

did you read the management plan posted in the other thread? If not, you should.

[quote SBennett]Jordanelle bows and browns quite often have perch in them.[/quote]
Did you read Therepists's post above?

It's about the niche those fish occupy. Wormandbobber cited some information that showed that splake will opportunistically prey on perch. Splake also occupy those shallow weedy areas of Fish Lake more frequently than lake trout, which explains this predation.

Lake trout and perch simply don't cross paths in Fish Lake.

At Jordanelle, those brown trout and rainbows are crossing paths with perch, and thus present an opportunity for those fish to prey on perch.
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[quote TT600]Seems like the answer is to stock smaller rainbows. And maybe tiger muskie.[/quote]

The answer for what? If the only answer you are looking for is growing more big lake trout; then, yes that would be an answer. But, stocking rainbows to feed lake trout is an especially expensive feeding program...
...a better solution would be to stock something that can reproduce naturally, establish a self-sustaining population, supply much needed forage, and give something back to the anglers in terms of sport or harvest. This is why the current plan is attempting to use kokanee...
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[quote Therapist]Predator/Prey relationships are very delicate. One problem may be that perch occupy a different nich in the ecosystem than the chubs. Perch tend, where available, to occupy the shoreline areas and weedy areas when available. They do go deep, but only if there is a lack of cover. Chubs tend to use weedbeds for spawning, but then move out into the open water for the most part. Laker's and Splake would tend to use the open water zone also, hence the preference for chubs over perch. Perch are also a bit more "thorny" than chubs ( spiny rayed vs soft rayed) so are more difficult to swallow !!![/quote]

Exactly....and, this is also why weevils have been moved into the lake that prey on milfoil. Hopefully, these weevils can help reduce the milfoil enough that perch habitat is reduced.
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The book you wrote is well [crazy] yes in a nut shell, you are right to work the perch would have to be replaced by (THE DREADED UTAH CHUB) witch I like and think helps more then many think..
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Yes he did..You well NO..
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You are right, but maybe not in the way you intend to be..
Read what the worm has wrote be low your post..He puts it better then I could..
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