Hi all,
Just wondering if any of you have experience fishing with an outboard mounted on an extended/offshore bracket? I'm in the market for a new aluminum boat and some of the brands I've looked at come with an extended bracket. I see them all over at flaming gorge and I know they are popular in the northwest. I just don't know if the pros outweigh the cons of having one.
I fish exclusively on lakes and reservoirs. I don't know if these are more of a saltwater or river application or what? Any advice would be appreciated. I'm probably going to buy a weldcraft or possibly one of the new magnitude boats from Idaho. I can get both brands with either type of engine mount, I just have to decide which would be best for downrigger trolling on lakes and reservoirs.
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I have a 20ft Luxor offshore that really is about 25 overall because of the offshore bracket. With that being said it will for sure ride better in rough water and plane faster cause the motor is got its own buoyancy and you will have the standing platform to fight fish if that's what your concerned about. I use longer rods (8') so I can work around the motors when fishing for kokes. You have a lot more room in your boat, usally fish boxes and such with a bracket And another benefit is you will have a swim ladder to get in the boat if you ever go overboard. I had a Duckworth without the offshore bracket prior and I prefer the bracket 100%. One other thing to keep in mind is storage if your tight on length in your garage you might not have a choice to get the bracket cause it does add 5ft of length to your boat. There's my pros and cons good luck on your choice.
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Thanks for the info Tacklebox. I assume the bracket doesn't affect your sonar transducer at all? I'm just trying to cover all of my bases before I commit to a boat style I'm not very familiar with.
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No effect at all on transducer it still attaches to hull on my boat. Some attach to the offshore bracket, but anything below the water line should be good to go I would imagine. If your going with the new magnitude boats Ryan is a great guy he will treat you right. If I were you I would have him take you for test ride before you commit he will be glad to do so have him take you in a offshore bracket and transom mounted boats.
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You will love, love, love the transom extension. More room in boat, stability of a longer boat, faster planing. In the photos below it shows how the transducer is part of the design. I have a Weldcraft and love it.
Bob
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I had a great experience with Greg at Precision Boats in Idaho Falls. They carry the Duckworth and Weldcraft brands in addition to lighter duty boats such as Crestliner, etc.
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I like the extra room on my boat due to the offshore bracket. That alone is worth it. In my old fiberglass boat the splash well took up valuable real estate. It may be worth taking a ride in one with, and one without to be sure. I am a DIYer since I cant afford new so I built me own. Fish finer transducer is not a problem either.
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[quote tacklebox]I have a 20ft Luxor offshore that really is about 25 overall because of the offshore bracket. With that being said it will for sure ride better in rough water and plane faster cause the motor is got its own buoyancy and you will have the standing platform to fight fish if that's what your concerned about. I use longer rods (8') so I can work around the motors when fishing for kokes. You have a lot more room in your boat, usally fish boxes and such with a bracket And another benefit is you will have a swim ladder to get in the boat if you ever go overboard. I had a Duckworth without the offshore bracket prior and I prefer the bracket 100%. One other thing to keep in mind is storage if your tight on length in your garage you might not have a choice to get the bracket cause it does add 5ft of length to your boat. There's my pros and cons good luck on your choice.[/quote]
A friend of mine tipped me off to this thread. Thanks, whoever you are. This issue has been extensively discussed on another forum, I've been posting about it for many years. Briefly, extended transoms are an inferior design. They suck. They evolved as bolt-on affairs which provided more interior room at the time. Now, however, they are integral with the hull. As such, they should be seen for what they are, inferior to a full hull if the overall length of the boat is hels constant. If two hulls are 25' long, which design has more flotation at the engine? Which provides more interior room? Which design makes it easier to fish around the engine?
Here is just one thread. You can search my posts if you like. Briefly, you get less boat for about the same money with a bracket than a full hull with a splashwell.:
Edit: Links to competing forums are not allowed on BFT, see the FAQ above for the rules of the site.
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Paddler your theory is great but to compare a 25ft transom mounted boat to a 20ft boat with bracket ride and as the same price I would love to be in your world of prices cause there is no doubt that I would own a 25ft if that were the case. You get way more benefits from a offshore bracket in terms than you would from the same size hull with it being mounted to the transom. Just a obvious. If your after the most inside usable space get a bracket if you want to lose space with the same boat get it mounted to the transom. Easy as that!
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[quote tacklebox]Paddler your theory is great but to compare a 25ft transom mounted boat to a 20ft boat with bracket ride and as the same price I would love to be in your world of prices cause there is no doubt that I would own a 25ft if that were the case. You get way more benefits from a offshore bracket in terms than you would from the same size hull with it being mounted to the transom. Just a obvious. If your after the most inside usable space get a bracket if you want to lose space with the same boat get it mounted to the transom. Easy as that![/quote]
Precisely incorrect. It's not a theory, it's engineering. The bracket length is typically 30", not 5 feet. The length of the bracket should be enough so your engine will clear the transom when tilted up so you don't damage the cowl. I think the guy who said 5' was including the engines. Compare two boats that measure 23' overall, from the bow to the engine mounting point. One will have a splashwell, the other a bracket. Now, subtract 30" for the bracket, your transom will be at 20.5'. Now, subtract another foot for the transom fishbox, which is required on a bracket boat so you can put your batteries under it, and you're standing at 19.5 feet while fishing.
This is an old argument. Go through the threads on ifish if you like. Given boats of the same LOA, brackets are clearly inferior in every respect, bouyancy, hull volume, fishability, space efficiency, etc. But the cost is very similar. Your choice.
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Well there you have it mallard Mann get the transom with motor and be happy[
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Thanks to all for your input. Its nice to hear from those who have the extended transoms. It sounds like there is no right answer. Either type would be better than the imaginary boat I currently own. Right now I fish out of my dad's ski boat but there are more people that want to fish in it than he has room for. I plan on test driving both types and will make a decision based on my budget and what I feel will work best for the type of fishing I do. It's nice to know that there are options out there that seem to work well.
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This is an interesting thread. Set back plates were very common with fiberglass boat for a number of years before the boat manufacturers began to design the hulls with integral set back.
I don't see what the problem is. The purpose is to get the motor off the transom, allow it to be raised and lowered for maximum efficiency. Most Bass and Walleye boats today use hydraulic jack plates that allow the motor to be raised and lowered. These Jack plates used to be a set back of 4-6 inches in addition to the up and down.
Look at the transom of any fiberglass rig and you will see that it tapers back so the motor is set back about 8-12 inches off the flat transom. Jack plates still give the up and down adjustment, but the manufacturer has built the set back into the hull.
My Skeeter 1850DV has a flat transom with the motor mounted pretty much down on the transom, no set back, no up and down adjustment. The original owner and dealer did not know anything about rigging a boat, or the owner did not want to spend the bucks on a hydraulic jack plate. He chose instead to put a "whale tail" on the motor to get the lift he needed to plane the boat. I have not put one on as I have not wanted to drill more holes in the transom. I do not get the top end speed I should and the boat tends to porpoise if I trim out to much. I still think about it, but have not done anything about it.
Well, at least I learned from this thread how to win an argument with the Mrs...All I have to repeat over and over is, "It's engineering" when I want to shut down other opinions.
I've had all types of boats..inboard, outboard, inboard/outboard and nothing beats the extended platform I currently own..but each preference and opinion is ok...It's not about engineering at all.
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Mallardmann, you broke my silence. I know how you feel; went through it about 8 months ago. Couldn't decide which way to go. Did a lot of research and looked at a lot of boats. Just like you, I wanted to fish with downriggers, have a safe boat with high side walls and be able to fit a crew that liked to fish.
I live in SE Idaho and looked at what was available around here. Duckworths, Weldcrafts, Magnitudes, Hewescrafts, Thunderjets, Crestliners, Smoker Crafts, North Rivers; you've probably done the same.
Hard to decide on what you want when there are only two boats of one build in a showroom to look at. Finally narrowed it down to three that I thought were best for what I wanted and decided to drive to Portland and look where there's more volume. Was looking for at least a 20 foot boat. Everything I looked at 20 foot and up had a bracket. Guess if it's OK for the ocean, it'll probably do OK for what I needed. Maybe it's a NW thing as you noted.
Looked at Weldcraft, North River and Thunderjets. Bracket designs were similar, I liked the Weldcraft bracket design the best. Only thing that swayed me away was the closed cell foam sprayed inside the hull. Great for sound deadening but eventually it will take on water. The North River is built like a tank but the bow deck design had a problem I couldn't get out of my head. It had a hole cut in it to store anchor rope and if the bow filled with water from wave action, it would dump into the hull as well as dump out the self bailing ports. No sense taking on water when other boats are designed to eliminate the possibility(could have welded it shut). Looked at 60 different Thunderjets at Siglers Marine before I finally picked one out. Bought the 21' Luxor OB Limited Edition. I think the Yamaha slightly swayed my decision. I had them bump the stock 150hp up to a 200hp. There' 3% power loss per 1000' of increased elevation. If you fish above 6000' or 7000' you should probably look at getting a ported prop and cut back on the pitch.
So back to the downrigger questions about fishing riggers with a bracketed boat. If you plan to run a kicker, you should probably get a prop shield for it to keep the closest rigger line from potentially getting wrapped up if for some reason you turn too sharp. Most of the riggers have long enough booms you can run out the side to avoid it but get the prop shield and forget about it. You'll have a hoot fishing with riggers. Avoid the frustrations with the standard clothespin type releases. Chamberlain releases work pretty well once you figure out how to set them for your fishing conditions.
One thing I found about a long boat with high side walls is control issues when fishing in high winds. Sometimes it's tough to get the boat to turn into the wind at trolling speeds once the bow has been pushed off the direct line of the waves. I just bought a Minnkota Terrova to mount on the bow. We'll soon find out how it works out.
Good luck on the boat purchase. I'm sure you'll have a good time.......I'm having a blast.
J
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[quote Therapist]This is an interesting thread. Set back plates were very common with fiberglass boat for a number of years before the boat manufacturers began to design the hulls with integral set back.
I don't see what the problem is. The purpose is to get the motor off the transom, allow it to be raised and lowered for maximum efficiency. Most Bass and Walleye boats today use hydraulic jack plates that allow the motor to be raised and lowered. These Jack plates used to be a set back of 4-6 inches in addition to the up and down.
Look at the transom of any fiberglass rig and you will see that it tapers back so the motor is set back about 8-12 inches off the flat transom. Jack plates still give the up and down adjustment, but the manufacturer has built the set back into the hull.
My Skeeter 1850DV has a flat transom with the motor mounted pretty much down on the transom, no set back, no up and down adjustment. The original owner and dealer did not know anything about rigging a boat, or the owner did not want to spend the bucks on a hydraulic jack plate. He chose instead to put a "whale tail" on the motor to get the lift he needed to plane the boat. I have not put one on as I have not wanted to drill more holes in the transom. I do not get the top end speed I should and the boat tends to porpoise if I trim out to much. I still think about it, but have not done anything about it.[/quote]
There is a big difference between the setbacks on bass boats and the so-called offshore brackets. Different purpose, different design. The integrated setback was introduced by Ranger to decrease wetted surface and increase top speed. It is not flush with the bottom of the hull. The OS brackets were originally add-on affairs like the Armstrong welded pipe brackets, the Gill brackets, etc. They were designed simply to get the engine back farther from the transom and so increase interior space. That worked, of course. They have since evolved into what they are today, integrated hull extensions. Nothing wrong with them, they work fine most of the time. There have been lots of problems with leaky access hatches with disastrous results, however.
The real question is not whether a 20' boat with the added length of an ET is better than a 20' splashwell boat, because the one with the bracket is 30" longer. The question is whether a 23' boat with a bracket, measured from the bow to the engine mount, better than a 23' splashwell boat. Which gives full width flotation at the engine? Which has more volume, stability, etc? To think of it another way, you can make a 23' splashwell boat into a 20.5' bracket boat with a sawzall. But why would you?
I'm not here to bash anybody's boat, so please don't take it that way. ETs are popular in the PNW, as many fisherman think an "Offshore" bracket, as marketed by North River, etc, makes a boat more offshore capable. Fishermen are a conservative bunch, so the market demands OS brackets, or ETs, etc, and boat builders build what sells. There is also a packaging issue involved, especially if you want a splashwell boat with self-bailing decks, but that's different.
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Hey mallardmann, I say go with what you want it is your money and you are the one that needs to be happy in the end. For what it is worth I have a Weldcraft with the extended bracket and absolutely love it. I can run all four downriggers and I have not had an issue. I was concerned about the flotation foam as well but maybe Weldcraft changed the way they build because mine doesn't have it. And as for the leaking access hatches not all makers use them, the only hole in mine is where the plug goes and if that's filling up with water then that is my fault. Life's to short to spend to much time worrying about what to get, find one that fits your needs and get on the water. If we could clear a little ice I would happy to take you out in mine [fishin]
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Glad to hear it is working well for you CGOOSE. Weldcraft is one of the brands that is on my short list to buy. As soon as I head to Idaho and take a few test rides I should be ready to make a decision. It's too bad nobody in Utah sells the type of boats I'm looking at. Idaho isn't that far but it would be easier if I could shop in Utah.
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