[#0000FF]Just got this from Luke Allen, director of the Utah Lake Commission.
Note: there are several live links that are worth checking out.
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So they talk about the low water, but no explanation is offered as to why ?? Been over the Jordan in Saratoga Springs several times in the last few days and it is full, so what gives ???
[#0000FF]I have exchanged emails with Luke Allen and a few other folks supposedly in the loop. Most spout the same tired rhetoric..."It was a poor water year and we are still in a drought."
What doesn't add up for me is that the previous winter was worse, but Utah Lake came up about 3 feet by June and only gradually dropped to its lowest level in late fall...before they shut off the gates. This year there was twice as much snowpack...and virtually all other lakes in the watershed are full or near full. Even Salt Lake has come up over 2 feet. Where did that water come from? How many feet of Utah Lake water does it take to raise Salt Lake even one inch?
Utah Lake is lower now than at its lowest point last fall? Why?
As to all that water running out of the lake...a lot of it is simply circulating around the canal system in the Salt Lake Valley, dumping back into the Jordan River out by the airport and going into Salt Lake. It appears that very little of it is being used for agriculture or industrial use. But the water users do not reduce their demand for fear of losing a portion in coming years.
Now if we could talk everybody into taking a few 5 gallon containers of water down and dumping them into the lake every time they go by....
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let's see, how many 5 gal buckets does it take to raise the level of Ut.Lake 1 inch ???
[#0000FF]Fewer than the Great Salt Lake.
Maybe we can call in the Sorcerer's Apprentice. Anybody got a website address or email for them?
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Hey Pat,
Do you know if the entities that control the water flow out of our lakes/reservoirs keep data on the actual outflows and are those data available to the public?
I know for the rivers I watch in Oregon, you can get data in cubic feet per second (CFS) all the time. It wouldn't take a mathematical genius to show what is different this year and last if one could find those numbers[
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[#0000FF]Sorry. Don't have that info. And unable to get it. I have tried but apparently it is a closely guarded secret.
Went by Jordanelle and Deer Creek today on the way home from Starvation. Both are full...as was Starvation. Wazzup wit Utah Lake? I dunno.
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Found something interesting at the Central Utah Water Conservancy District site:
http://data.cuwcd.com/data/streamflows/index.htm
The 2 graphs show the flow, for about the last 30 days, out of Deer Creek and at "Harbor Drive" on the Lower Provo. I assume that means just above the inlet to Utah Lake. The outflow from DC has decreased only about 5% while the flow into UL has decreased by about 65%! The water is no longer making it to the lake?
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I marked the "inline", but the graphs didn't post. I have edited the post and now the files are there, but it would be nicer to see both graphs inline?
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I talked to a guy at Lincoln Beach on Friday that gave some insight on why Utah Lake water levels are going down. According to him the State is getting ready to dredge the Provo Boat Harbor and is having the lake drained down to facilitate it. Makes sense to me, but who knows if this is true or not. There does seem to be a lot of water going down the Jordan and I hear the surplus canal is full as well. It doesn't make a lot of sense to send all that water into the Great Salt Lake for no reason.
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MRJ,
Thanks for sharing the insight. Dredging would be a good thing if the level isn't TOO LOW when they do it.
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[#0000FF]That was confirmed by an earlier discussion I had with the Utah Lake Commission. Budgeting for the dredging was approved and it was scheduled for later this year. But I can't understand why they are keeping the lake so low in the interim. It is affecting lots of individuals and businesses around the lake that rely on it for summer recreation interests. About the only businesses benefiting from the low water are marine and boating shops that repair or replace damaged props.
Too bad they can't do some dredging on the other harbors around the lake too. Most of them could use some extra depth to get boats in and out of the harbor. They could also dump some gravel or rock to fill the scour holes at the ends of the ramps. There has been some serious damage to boats and trailers the past couple of years when they drop over the sometimes deep and steep edges.
And by the way, filling Salt Lake at the expense of Utah Lake is not "for no reason". Those folks with the sail boats...and deep keels...need more depth to float their toys. Those poor folks actually had to take their boats out of the marina last year. But thanks to a raise in water level this year they are back afloat. Brings a tear to my eye.
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I was curious if the lower water level would help establish some vegetation to the bottom of the lake? With all the effort to remove the carp combined with lower water levels could this actually be beneficial in future years?
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[#0000FF]Just the opposite. A lake needs several years of stable (high) water levels for most aquatic vegetation to get started and to build permanent weed beds.
As long as there is any significant population of carp it will be almost impossible to establish and maintain weed beds. Carp seek out and root out every green shoot that dares to try to make a start.
Another factor is that when the lake is shallow it is much more subject to wind "rearranging" of the bottom sediments. 4 foot waves working over shallow water stir up the bottom and move large amounts of the mud around the lake...according to wind direction. Most aquatic vegetation requires a more stable bottom in which to put down roots and stay awhile.
There is one spot off Bird Island that may be as much as 16 feet deep...during high water and when wind direction and speed have been just right. But after a strong west wind...when the water is lower...that spot becomes level with the surrounding bottom. It completely fills in with silt during directional blows...and then gets scoured out when strong winds blow from another direction.
Indeed there has been an "effort" to remove carp. But the reality is that there are still far more of them than can be removed with current measures. There is definitely no shortage of those scaly buggers.
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Yeah, that's frustrating. There was nothing "poor" about this water year. Jordanelle came within 8' of its all time peak this year. And it gained more than 50' from its low last fall: the most the lake has gone up in a single run-off since it filled in 1995.
I think there is concern about blowing dust from the drying Great Salt Lake bed. A few feet in of water covers miles of dry land.
And one upside, more Great Salt Lake means bigger lake effect snows for next year.
Still, having no recreational boats on Utah Lake has a huge impact for me, even though I don't fish UL.
Deer Creek is a Power Squadron Apocalypse when UL is that low.
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Could they not just dike off the harbor in provo and do the dredging while allowing a more normal water level in the rest of the lake. I realize that would shut down provo boat harbor but seems better than jeopardizing the entire lake except for the carp of course
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[#0000FF]Making a "coffer dam" and dewatering the enclosed area for work has been a proven method in many cases where work needed to be done on dams, dikes, power facilities, etc. But I suspect that the plan and the funding were submitted several years ago, and not under current circumstances. It would probably require a whole new series of negotiations and approvals before a change could be made. That's gummint fer ya.
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[#0000FF]There is no doubt that Utah Lake has suffered to benefit other waters. My own suspicions are that Jordanelle got a greater portion of water this year to help the new kokanee fry.
Maybe we shoulda lobbied for some kokes to be planted in Utah Lake. The walleyes would love them.
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There's so many people in the world which is why it's hard to change lots of things such as our awful water rights laws. Overall we just use way to much water. Utah is ranked #1 in water used per person. Anywhere that we don't use water is fine. Ironically I'm working with the DNR at a fish hatchery and there's wetlands everywhere with water that isn't used. These wetlands are like a foot or 2 deep. I bet that they don't go completely dry before the end of the summer and obviously they aren't even close to the size of Utah lake.
On side notes it was interesting because a week or two ago I was told that the Provo River flowing between Jordanelle and Deer Creek would be flowing at 1,300 CFS for a "algae flush". I have Two questions that I wondered if any of you knew. 1. Utah lake is 48% full, what is the lowest it can be before water won't be able to be pumped into the Jordan river/ canals? 2. How effective is the dredging? Does it actually work and eventually won't refill with sediment/debris?
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[#0000FF]I long ago developed the philosophy that "Any question that begins with the word "WHY"...and it has to do with people (and people making decisions)...there is not likely to be a good answer." The current state of Utah Lake involves a lot of "why" questions.
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[#0000FF][#FF0000][size 3]"1. Utah lake is 48% full, what is the lowest it can be before water won't be able to be pumped into the Jordan river/ canals? 2. How effective is the dredging? Does it actually work and eventually won't refill with sediment/debris?"[/size][/#FF0000]
#1. Not sure exactly how low, but there are both control gates on the new channel and a similar control system at the pumps. They keep Utah Lake water backed up...to raise the water level. But I don't know how low it can go before there is not enough depth to pump. We might find out this year.
#2. Dredging is never a permanent solution...only a temporary remedy. The more mud and silt carried by the waters in a lake, the faster the dredged areas will fill in again. However, I suspect that dredging the harbors will likely provide more depth for at least the next decade.
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