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+--- Thread: Scofield, Grow fish Grow! (/showthread.php?tid=1046505)
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Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - DMcKee - 07-12-2018
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I took some my family to Scofield on the 4th of July. Very few fisherman in boats, way more wave boarders and water skiers which made the wakes an issue most of the day. (kind of a surprise actually) Caught about 40 fish in 5 hours between the 3 of us. Only caught 4 chubs. Arrived about 9:30, took a break for lunch then fished again until around 4:30. We were trolling with mainly flatfish, but also various spoons in the old tackle box. Most were 10-13 inches. Always hoping for a big Cut or Tiger, but not that day. Went back yesterday on the 10th for the evening, caught 15 between us. same size. Nothing worth taking a picture for again.
I hope the management plan works to get the fishery closer to what it use to be! Wipers and Tiger muskie hopefully thrive and like chubs.
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Re: [DMcKee] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - Potsy - 07-13-2018
We had the same results up there on the same day. We did catch a couple big rainbows jigging with tubs jigs but only netted one lost the rest as soon as they got to the boat. I agree let’s hope they grow and bring scofield back.
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Re: [DMcKee] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - wiperhunter2 - 07-16-2018
Sounds like the management plan is already working, this time last year chubs made up the largest numbers of fish caught, now, less than a year later that has changed and just the opposite is true. Just a matter of time now before the trout there get bigger[cool].
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Re: [DMcKee] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - PBH - 07-16-2018
[quote wiperhunter2]Sounds like the management plan is already working, this time last year chubs made up the largest numbers of fish caught, now, less than a year later that has changed and just the opposite is true. Just a matter of time now before the trout there get bigger[cool].[/quote]
Funny how opinions can differ. I was thinking just opposite!
Here is what I was thinking, after reading the OP's report of catching 10-13 inch rainbows:
Had the DWR poisoned Scofield last fall, then immediately restocked catchables afterwards, anglers could have been catching 16" rainbows on average, with nearly 0 chubs present. Rainbows would be growing like crazy, and you still could have stocked the tm's, wipers, etc. to take care of all the chubs that made it through the poisoning.
You could have had a good fishery right now, with a still brighter future. instead, we're still sitting here crossing our fingers that the management plan will work out.
Here's to the next few years. I hope things progress and improve.
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Re: [PBH] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - wiperhunter2 - 07-16-2018
LOL, you are kind of right but you forgot to mention one little detail, the cost of the poisoning, that price could put a lot more fish in the lake and many more lakes as well. What was the estimated cost of the poisoning, if they had gone that route, like a million dollars plus or minus[
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Re: [PBH] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - Joe_Dizzy - 07-16-2018
Maybe they should poison it every year and just stock it with planter rainbows every spring.
Hat's off to the DWR for trying alternate methods to balance the fishery.
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Re: [Joe_Dizzy] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - MSM1970 - 07-16-2018
Maybe they should poison it every year and just stock it with planter rainbows every spring.
I think they call them community fishery's.
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Re: [Joe_Dizzy] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - PBH - 07-16-2018
no need every year. But maybe a management plan where a rotenone treatment every 5 - 7 years would work?
that's not a bad idea.
Trying something new? OK. I'm all for patience. Let's review again next summer, and see what's changed. I'll bet we'll be having the same conversation. But, maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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Re: [PBH] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - Fishrmn - 07-16-2018
[quote PBH]Funny how opinions can differ. I was thinking just opposite!
You could have had a good fishery right now, with a still brighter future. instead, we're still sitting here crossing our fingers that the management plan will work out.
Here's to the next few years. I hope things progress and improve.[/quote]
I'm afraid what we'll have is MOTSS. More Of The Same Stuff. 10 to 12 inch cutthroats and not much else. Whooopie.
By the way, has anyone caught a Wiper yet? Or did they all die?
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Re: [PBH] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - Fishrmn - 07-16-2018
[quote PBH]Trying something new? OK. I'm all for patience. Let's review again next summer, and see what's changed. I'll bet we'll be having the same conversation. But, maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]
It's been 15 years now since the UDWR acknowledged that the Utah Chubs were back in Scofield. How long do we have to be patient?
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Re: [Fishrmn] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - Joe_Dizzy - 07-17-2018
Doing a little reading on the subject of rotenone/Strawberry/Scofield last night… quite interesting stuff. In addition to the cost (which is substantial), cleanup, permitting, etc. one of the things wildlife agencies must show in order to secure funding and permits is that actions will be taken to ensure that the current conditions being eradicated will not simply regenerate themselves.
In the case of Strawberry this meant that beyond the treatment, massive efforts were undertaken to improve tributary streams to make them more attractive for trout and salmon versus suckers and chubs. Reckless use of herbicides, stream diversions, cattle grazing, development, etc. degraded stream banks and they silted in quickly… basically creating sucker factories our of otherwise would-be trout farms.
Sounds like Scofield has similar issues, but additional complications due to much more private land (and landowners) to deal with and resulting poor water quality (compared to Strawberry). If the water quality issue cannot be turned around the DWR will likely never receive proper permitting to poison the lake as the results will simply revert back to the same in relatively short order.
I can’t help but wonder if the introduction of tiger muskies and wipers (and discussions of walleye) is an attempt to establish predatory fish that are not only more aggressive, but also more tolerant of poor water quality versus coldwater gamefish.
Just my $0.02
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Re: [Joe_Dizzy] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - PBH - 07-17-2018
[quote Joe_Dizzy]
I can’t help but wonder if the introduction of tiger muskies and wipers (and discussions of walleye) is an attempt to establish predatory fish that are not only more aggressive, but also more tolerant of poor water quality versus coldwater gamefish.
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This would still have been part of the plan after a rotenone treatment. Rotenone doesn't only benefit the trout.
Right now, wipers and tm's are in the lake. However, just like any other fish, they still have to compete against the prolific population of rough fish. This competition promotes SLOW growth! We all should now by now that in order to get big fish you want FAST growth!
like Fshrmn continues to point out -- we've been waiting on this fishery for over 20 years!! Why are we still waiting?
You could have been catching larger fish TODAY if the lake would have been treated last year.
But, we'll just continue to wait....
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Re: [PBH] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - Joe_Dizzy - 07-17-2018
As wiperhunter already pointed out, FUNDING is a major issue here. The DWR does not have monies available to take on a project like this. Funding would have to come from elsewhere (as it has in the past). Funding issues aside…
PERMITTING is another huge hurdle. I strongly encourage you (or anyone) to read up on the challenges in securing permits. If the water quality is a contributing issue at Scofield… no poison permits would be approved by the EPA unless that situation is first addressed.
Nobody has millions of dollars laying around to hit the reset button on a lake every 5 years… especially when you have other options in proximity. But AGAIN it’s not just the MONEY, it’s the PERMITTING. Instead of moaning about the DWR not poisoning the water, maybe look into the cause of the water quality issues and raise some awareness on that?
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Re: [Joe_Dizzy] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - PBH - 07-17-2018
I understand budgeting.
I also understand approvals, nepa, etc.
Treating Scofield with rotenone wasn't stopped due to those issues above, and mentioned by Dizzy. Treatment was stopped due to anglers reactions, and popular opinion. This is all too frequent in today's world. So, we take the tools that work away from the people who know.
The result?
years and years of mediocrity.
We'll keep waiting.
At some point, we should allow the biologists and managers to manage fisheries instead of fishermen.
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Re: [Joe_Dizzy] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - doggonefishin - 07-17-2018
Since the DWR has locked into their current plan, this is mainly an academic exercise, but a couple of comments.
1. You guys keep talking about "resets" needing to be done after a few years. Why? How many resets has Strawberry needed after it was treated? How about Panguitch lake? If the lake was treated, a slot limit immediately enacted and for that matter, put in the tiger muskies, (Which I like being used.) you will not need "resets", even if a few chubs persist in the tribs.
2.
[quote Joe_Dizzy]As wiperhunter already pointed out, FUNDING is a major issue here. [/quote]
It is not so cut and dried that rotenone is the most expensive option. Why? If you factor in the markedly reduced usage Scofield has seen over the past few years, the loss in usage fees probably offsets treatment costs. Also the stocking of enormous numbers of different fish, with hopes of improvement, as has been done is also not without a pricetag.
Anyway, the course is set on Skoalfield, so all we can do is wait and hope for the best that we eventually will get a semblance of what the old Schofield was like in the past.
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Re: [PBH] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - cdbrc - 07-17-2018
Three of us fished Scolfied Monday and had a blast. Only three chubs even tho we tried to catch some for bait. The bright side was the 67 cuts and bows, alot of them in the slot. All fish were very healthy and strong fighters especally on my utlralite pole. I see good things for Scofield in the coming years. Oh by the way the biggest fish I've got at SF this year was a 8 pound 1os. Bow that was a natural fish, not a planter. He is still in there to let you know that all is not lost. Go fish it and have fun. Oh and dont drink any more viniger.
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Re: [Joe_Dizzy] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - wormandbobber - 07-17-2018
Just an FYI, but the USFWS and the American Fisheries Society have both determined that using rotenone as a kind of reset button for managing fisheries is very cost effective. In fact, it is often viewed as more costly not to rotenone fisheries. According to the USFWS, “It has been estimated that for
each dollar spent on rotenone
and stocked trout, anglers gained
from $32 to $105 worth of fish
ing. On trout lakes that were
stocked but not treated, the gain
from fish stocking alone was
only $10 to $15.”
https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/federalassistance/native_trout/rotenonebro.pdf
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Re: [wormandbobber] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - Lonnie - 07-17-2018
Here is my take on this subject. As a carbon county resident in my younger years , I have seen this lake treated 3 times in the last 50 years, each time produced 5-8 years of great fishing followed by it being over taken again by chubs (and carp in the earlier years)
Now I would compare it to starvation, which was over run with chubs 30 years ago. Ruining a great trout fishery.
When predatory fish (walleye) were introduced (illigally or otherwise ) The walleye grew to some trophy size. But what I remember is an article from a dwr biologist saying it would take 8-10 years for the chubs to disappear. The predatory fish would eat the young , and the older class fish will eventually die out after they get beyond spawning years.
That is exactly how it happened When the dwr went to this management plan at scofeild a couple years back , they said the same thing would happen . It has only been 2-3 years of the 8-10 predicted. Be patient... Look what is happening at joes valley 6-7 years in. Look for scofeild to be a real trophy water in 3-5 years. I am willing to wait...
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Re: [Lonnie] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - PBH - 07-17-2018
[quote Lonnie]...saying it would take 8-10 years for the chubs to disappear. ...eventually die out after they get beyond spawning years.
.. It has only been 2-3 years of the 8-10 predicted. Be patient... ...Look for scofeild to be a real trophy water in 3-5 years. I am willing to wait...[/quote]
but, my question, and argument is: WHY WAIT??
Why not have it right now? You could, if you wouldn't have delayed it already.
There is no reason to wait. Poison it. Get an 80% reduction in chubs. Restock with rainbows (immediate gratification) as well as wipers and tiger muskies. The wipers and tiger muskies then have a prey base (remaining chubs) to GROW FAST. They keep the chubs down, providing the rainbows an opportunity to also GROW FAST. You end up with those big fish in 3 years vs. 8-10! Win, win.
It just makes no sense to wait.
But, that's OK. Let's sit on our hands and wait for a few years.
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Re: [PBH] Scofield, Grow fish Grow! - Joe_Dizzy - 07-17-2018
Now you're just venting. [laugh]
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