Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20

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Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20 - TubeDude - 09-03-2020

Was hoping the cooler weather might help offset the big full moon still hanging in the sky as I got ready to launch at the south marina. Air temp 57 (nice) and water temp just over 71 at launch. Getting there, but not quite prime. Water level is really dropping too.

Got launched by 6:30. Calm conditions all morning. A few other folks optimistically fishing but did not see anybody in boats score anything. I started out casting or dragging a wide variety of plastics and cranks. In the first 2 1/2 hours I had one bite...a nice crappie that hit a small crank but arranged an early release just as it reached the tube. Sokay by me.

Finally swallered my pride (whatever is left) and put up the fancy stuff. Out came the fligs and LHBE minnows. The next two hours were kitty city. Went through 2 dozen minnows. Only missed a couple of hits and quit when I had about 4 minnows left. Kept 4 cats for a fish fry. Gotta love those whiskery wascals.

Saw lots of small shad balls. Started just outside the marina and extended out into 17-18 feet of water. In a couple of areas the shad were carpeting the bottom. Between the abundance of food and the bright full moon last night it is little wonder the W & W contingent (wipers and walleyes) were sleeping in and not interested in breakfast served by lowly anglers.

RE: Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20 - Cowboypirate - 09-03-2020

The photos look like pretty standard WB cats - any extra size to any of them? You would think with the preponderance of vittles available for them cats that they would pick up a bit in size soon

RE: Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20 - TubeDude - 09-03-2020

(09-03-2020, 10:18 PM)Cowboypirate Wrote: The photos look like pretty standard WB cats - any extra size to any of them? You would think with the preponderance of vittles available for them cats that they would pick up a bit in size soon

Don't know how many years you have been exposed to the vicissitudes of catkind in Willard. My experience goes back to the mid 1970s. In those days...BS (before shad...and wipers) Willard kitties routinely grew to over 20 pounds...with lots of 10# plus cats in the 30" range. Primary forage was lots of crawdads, green sunfish and young crappies.

In the years following the first major plantings of wipers the catfish took a big hit on their groceries. Shad slurped up the zooplankton that baby crappies needed for growth to the larger sizes. And wipers ate a bunch of young crappies too...so crappie numbers have dropped way off. When there were no edible shad available (a big part of the year) the abundant wipers chow down on crawdads and the small fish usually eaten by the cats...and even eat a lot of baby cats. In the early 2000s, during extreme low water conditions, it was rare to find cats as large as 20 inches. Most were in the low teens.

In recent years there have been a lot of fluctuations in wiper and walleye numbers, but shad have pretty much continued to reproduce well. So there has been more food for the cats...both invertebrates and fishy fare. That has led to bumper crops of cats and some good average growth rates too. Willard "cookie cutters" used to be about 16 to 18 inches. Today they average a bit larger...with many more reaching 2-footer status and even a few 30 inchers showing up.

My biggest cat today may have been about 23"...with most over 20. I have caught them up to 28" from Willard in the past couple of years. I suspect that there are bigger ones to be had but the "average" size these days are fun to catch and just right for the table or the smoker. Non finer in the whole country as far as I'm concerned.

RE: Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20 - Cowboypirate - 09-04-2020

Ya , i was not a cat guy in my younger days. Dad was a trout guy and so were his boys We fished the local waters and took horses into Wyoming or other high country chasing critter with whippy wands and tufts of feathers,( but only after the hay was put up). About my College days, my room mate introduced me to cats on the bear and up in Logan. But for some reason we never fished Willard. I am a willard-come-lately guy and really learning it now. I really bit hard into the cat magic when I relocated to Alabama and fished some of the great cat water down that way. I got to play with big blues on the Santee- Cooper chain. Mind blowing.

I appreciate you adding more context to the Willard story. Feels like it will continue to develop better cats. I hope I keep my feet planted on terra-ferma long enough to see catchable population of 30+ at the bay.

Now. What do you think of the little experiment of cats in Matua?

RE: Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20 - TubeDude - 09-04-2020

(09-04-2020, 09:57 PM)Cowboypirate Wrote: Ya , i was not a cat guy in my younger days. Dad was a trout guy and so were his boys We fished the local waters and took horses into Wyoming or other high country chasing critter with whippy wands and tufts of feathers,( but only after the hay was put up). About my College days, my room mate introduced me to cats on the bear and up in Logan. But for some reason we never fished Willard. I am a willard-come-lately guy and really learning it now. I really bit hard into the cat magic when I relocated to Alabama and fished some of the great cat water down that way. I got to play with big blues on the Santee- Cooper chain. Mind blowing.

I appreciate you adding more context to the Willard story. Feels like it will continue to develop better cats. I hope I keep my feet planted on terra-ferma long enough to see catchable population of 30+ at the bay.

Now. What do you think of the little experiment of cats in Matua?

Too early to tell yet. But I would think Mantua would be a good venue for them. They could occupy a rung on the ecosystem ladder that would help balance the other species and also provide good fishing. Plenty of food in there without the cats impinging upon the existing residents. But what sometimes appears to be a slam dunk to we of the human persuasion sometimes just ain't workable in reality. Always the balancing of water conditions, food resources, spawning habitat and recruitment, etc. So far there haven't been enough planted to really make a showing among anglers. And until there are a few successful spawns we won't really know much.

RE: Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20 - fishskibum - 09-06-2020

thanks fer the wb reports and sharing decades of knowledge
while i dont have those years of experience
i feel the carp there (wb) are similiar to the cats
i just dont see or catch many of the +30''ers
plenty of cookie carpers 2'ers a few approaching 30
but it doesnt seem to grow as big of carp as other waters

RE: Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20 - TubeDude - 09-06-2020

(09-06-2020, 02:43 PM)fishskibum Wrote: thanks fer the wb reports and sharing decades of knowledge
while i dont have those years of experience
i feel the carp there (wb) are similiar to the cats
i just dont see or catch many of the +30''ers
plenty of cookie carpers 2'ers a few approaching 30
but it doesnt seem to grow as big of carp as other waters

You're right. I have fished Willard since the 1970s and although I have seen a lot of bigguns...and also caught one on flies that weighed 25#...very few in there get that big. I have played with those poopfish all over Utah. And I doubt there are many waters that consistently produce the beasts you are finding on the Bear...at least within a reasonable drive distance. However, if you wanna rassle some real tanks, hit Starvation or the Gorge. The pucker-faces in those clearer waters are also real "suckers" for the feathers.

You might be interested in some other info on the carp in Willard. Just recently had an exchange with Chris Penne of DWR on the subject. I had heard that there were lots of large carp suddenly floating on Willard...without arrow holes or any other visible means of their demise. His first guess was that there was an age-group dieoff. When I reminded him that carp can live over 50 years we both agreed that it could well be some kind of carp-specific virus or similar...like the "carp herpes" thing being used in some states. But without a qualified CSI evaluation...for which there is no budget...the true cause shall not be known. I took a picture of one poor expired carpie on my last trip. It was covered with flies. Not sure whether to call it a carp on flies...or flies on a carp.

By the way, I do enjoy your pictorial posts. Great fish and great photography. I also love how those pictures probably make hardcore troutophiles cringe. Keep up the good work.

RE: Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20 - fishskibum - 09-06-2020

like using a bobber on a whippy stick to catch slimers takes much skill ( Wink

ie)
you learn to put flies where they need to be to happy carp or dont git eaten pretty quick
i cant believe it took a global pandemic to git me to figure out the best carp river in the state
i havent poopfished the gorge nearly as much as i like too ditto on starvation
i did have a short window last sunday after rowin my greenie bros into a few river troots
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not many targets but i found a playa waited for em to clear a lumberyard
got my shot and made it work
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couple trips into the backing and 20 or so minutes of bent stick tug o war later

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im so gittin a skiff next season
thanks again for a lot of useful info

RE: Another NBC day at Willard 9-3-20 - TubeDude - 09-06-2020

(09-06-2020, 03:49 PM)fishskibum Wrote: like using a bobber on a whippy stick to catch slimers takes much skill (ie)
you learn to put flies where they need to be to happy carp or dont git eaten pretty quick
i cant believe it took a global pandemic to git me to figure out the best carp river in the state
i havent poopfished the gorge nearly as much as i like too ditto on starvation
i did have a short window last sunday after rowin my greenie bros into a few river troots

not many targets but i found a playa waited for em to clear a lumberyard
got my shot and made it work

couple trips into the backing and 20 or so minutes of bent stick tug o war later

im so gittin a skiff next season
thanks again for a lot of useful info

The fish look great. The guy in the picture? Not so much. Good photographer though.